Victory for paid mod boycotters: Valve removes payment feature from TES: Skyrim area of the Steam Wo - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47619682]Considering a majority of people have accepted microtransactions, yes.[/QUOTE] People accept microtransactions that effect gameplay? [I]Hell[/I] to the no. You have clearly done very little to no research on this. "People accept microtransactions that effect gameplay" and "Paid mods don't effect consumers" is just black and white thinking.

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;47619692]I don't know what kind of modding your doing that you have to do it at work. Get back to work![/QUOTE] People make a living off of youtube, for example, why can't they do that making mods. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47619697]People accept microtransactions that effect gameplay? [I]Hell[/I] to the no.[/QUOTE] TF2.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47619700] TF2.[/QUOTE] Oh, I am sorry. I didn't realize hats and unique weapons effected gameplay in such a way that you are given a significant advantage over other people. Clearly you are mistaking anesthetic with gameplay. P.S You have still failed to answer the question(s).

[QUOTE=shad0w440;47619677]Lets use an analogy, I currently have an item on the Gmod workshop that currently has 186,115 subscribers, if I charged $1 for the item it would generate $186,115. At a 25% cut that would leave me with $46,528 now we can divide that further to account for the 3 years its been on workshop and we are left with $15,509.59 per year. Lopping off my monthly rent of roughly $725 That leaves me with $6,809 Lop off my yearly food expenses and we have $2129 of spending money for the entire year :v:[/QUOTE] Also assuming every single sub would buy it, which they wouldn't.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47619700]People make a living off of youtube, for example, why can't they do that making mods. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] TF2.[/QUOTE] TF2's microtransactions do not affect gameplay in any way. You don't need keys to play TF2, you don't need tickets to play TF2, you don't need hats to play TF2.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47619695]Citation needed. This was only a beginning and an incentive to do it.[/QUOTE] A sword cost a 1$. So a feature changing mod would be a minimum of 10-15$. But a feature changing mod like Nehrim is an incredible amount of work meaning that the split of profits between the team, combined with the hours they work, is basically a form of slave labour that they're putting themselves in for pennies. There is NO incentive there. And I've ignored the issues of interdependent mods because that's a whole other barrel of monkeys. Now they have to pay licensing fees out to the mods they used for small things like animations or props cutting their already non existant profit margin down to nothing. Viable as a side job? Only, and I mean ONLY, if you're churning out shit tons of low quality props, models, weapons, items, can you hope to make money off of this. People made mods like Nehrim without money being on the table, why do you think money would help them make a better game or be more driven to do more? It's never been the case in the modding scene before, give me a reason why that would happen

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47619672]Microtransactions have been in the game for ages now. Mods are created and that takes time. Time that could be used working at a job. So what youre saying is that no work done should ever be able to be compensated, because "you can't use the argument you don't have to buy things"[/QUOTE] Well the work done can be compensated through donations because mods don't have the obligation to not break the base game.

"People make a living off of YouTube[...]" Come on man, thats about as valid as people should be able to make a living off of mods.

Also assuming that many people would even pay for mods in the first place, youtube is massive, modding is much, [I]much[/I] smaller.

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;47619726]"People make a living off of YouTube[...]" Come on man, thats about as valid as people should be able to make a living off of mods.[/QUOTE] Also because of that, look at all the high quality streams! Wow!

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47619731]Also assuming that many people would even pay for mods in the first place, youtube is massive, modding is much, [I]much[/I] smaller.[/QUOTE] You don't pay for youtube, the two as a comparison is not effective. The difference in the interaction on the consumers end is so large that any analogy that compares the two effectively breaks down. not arguing with you, just stating how I see it

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619719] People made mods like Nehrim without money being on the table, why do you think money would help them make a better game or be more driven to do more? It's never been the case in the modding scene before, give me a reason why that would happen[/QUOTE] No one has ever given a reason as to how money would increase the quality of mods. It's always "Money will increase the quality of mods because money will increase the quality of mods."

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;47619773]No one has ever given a reason as to how money would increase the quality of mods. It's always "Money will increase the quality of mods because money will increase the quality of mods."[/QUOTE] "they work on it longer" Is going to be one of them. However, before somebody says it, that assumes good faith. If you are seriously assuming good faith then those people would make their mods free, look at cr1tikal for an example of actual good faith. And believe me, most modders, and people who would have gone into modding just to get paid, would not be doing it in good faith.

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47619795]"they work on it longer" Is going to be one of them. However, before somebody says it, that assumes good faith. If you are seriously assuming good faith then those people would make their mods free.[/QUOTE] That's time, not money, increasing the quality of the mods. Which means those mods can still come out free, just later or in an earlier state.

If you go into modding seeking to make money, you're a fool. I've seen at least 15 modders of some renown say this. It's always been a thing of passion for many people, and I find money and passion are not compatible for a large number of people who do creative things. It's either money, or passion in my experience.

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47619795]"they work on it longer" Is going to be one of them. However, before somebody says it, that assumes good faith. If you are seriously assuming good faith then those people would make their mods free, look at cr1tikal for an example of actual good faith. And believe me, most modders, and people who would have gone into modding just to get paid, would not be doing it in good faith.[/QUOTE] Early Access Mods were a thing. Everyone please consider this, then weep.

Early access mods lmfao what a joke Hey guys wrote one line of code $10 bucks since early access is more expensive thx

Remember when day-one DLC everybody got really mad at? I'm still mad. Like this shit: [IMG]http://i.gyazo.com/84ee65c1d17f65392c6bfe5c4dc32706.png[/IMG] baaaaarf [QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;47619846]Early access mods lmfao what a joke Hey guys wrote one line of code $10 bucks since early access is more expensive thx[/QUOTE] Early access is cheaper but - "Look guys, I know it's not finished but here's all the AWESOME features I have no concept for I am going to add if you give me money!" Nothing can go wrong.

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47619711]Oh, I am sorry. I didn't realize hats and unique weapons effected gameplay in such a way that you are given a significant advantage over other people. Clearly you are mistaking anesthetic with gameplay. P.S You have still failed to answer the question(s).[/QUOTE] They give you weapons noone else that didn't get them legitimately has at the time. This doesn't give anyone significant gameplay advantages over other people either. (SINGLE PLAYER, remember?) Oh, and I did answer your question, just apparently not to your liking. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619719]A sword cost a 1$. So a feature changing mod would be a minimum of 10-15$. But a feature changing mod like Nehrim is an incredible amount of work meaning that the split of profits between the team, combined with the hours they work, is basically a form of slave labour that they're putting themselves in for pennies. There is NO incentive there. And I've ignored the issues of interdependent mods because that's a whole other barrel of monkeys. Now they have to pay licensing fees out to the mods they used for small things like animations or props cutting their already non existant profit margin down to nothing. Viable as a side job? Only, and I mean ONLY, if you're churning out shit tons of low quality props, models, weapons, items, can you hope to make money off of this. People made mods like Nehrim without money being on the table, why do you think money would help them make a better game or be more driven to do more? It's never been the case in the modding scene before, give me a reason why that would happen[/QUOTE] Your math is awful. Not everything is 1:1. A big mod could be $4, it's all at the discretion of the modder. The cuts were garbage so $1 for a sword makes sense. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47619818]If you go into modding seeking to make money, you're a fool. I've seen at least 15 modders of some renown say this. It's always been a thing of passion for many people, and I find money and passion are not compatible for a large number of people who do creative things. It's either money, or passion in my experience.[/QUOTE] Passion or not money incentivizes people. You don't work at a job for the "passion" of it.

Wait, is Map in a Box, person number I lost count trying to defend this idea of paying for mods?

[QUOTE=Swilly;47620182]Wait, is Map in a Box, person number I lost count trying to defend this idea of paying for mods?[/QUOTE] Are you trying to say I'm not entitled to my opinion? [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] Regardless of your stance that's pretty dickish

after all this talk about paid mods and donations and this and that i wonder if geel paid taxes on those "donations" to scrap.tf. lol

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47620200]Are you trying to say I'm not entitled to my opinion? [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] Regardless of your stance that's pretty dickish[/QUOTE] No I'm saying, that you're opinions and arguements, have been discussed before in the previous thread and in this one. Infact the point where you start showing up everyone is basically saying for Geel and Catbarf, "We've heard this already." Its not a point of saying you're not entitled to your opinion, however your opinion has been argued a number of different ways by different people are you're just continuing that same argument.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47620141]Your math is awful. Not everything is 1:1. A big mod could be $4, it's all at the discretion of the modder. The cuts were garbage so $1 for a sword makes sense.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, what? A feature changing mod is tons more work than making a cheap sword in blender, and also involve a team of several modders who have to split the profits. But then they can't sell their mod for more than 20$ because that's what the official extensions cost and nobody would be paying more than that. As a result you have a mod that took more time than modeling an item by several orders of magnitude, only to have it generate about 20 times more money and have to split the profit between 3 to 5 people. It doesn't take a genius to realize making cheap 1$ items would be more worthwhile.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47620360]I'm sorry, what? A feature changing mod is tons more work than making a cheap sword in blender, and also involve a team of several modders who have to split the profits. But then they can't sell their mod for more than 20$ because that's what the official extensions cost and nobody would be paying more than that. As a result you have a mod that took more time than modeling an item by several orders of magnitude, only to have it generate about 20 times more money and have to split the profit between 3 to 5 people. It doesn't take a genius to realize making cheap 1$ items would be more worthwhile.[/QUOTE] Doing the math for the profit margins, even the most adamant people for this should be able to realize this only incentivize making huge number of small scale work to sell in large volumes. There is NO way to make a profit off of a large mod, where there is an insane monetary incentive to create shlock content that will sell in volume for lower cost. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Map in a box;47620141]They give you weapons noone else that didn't get them legitimately has at the time. This doesn't give anyone significant gameplay advantages over other people either. (SINGLE PLAYER, remember?) Oh, and I did answer your question, just apparently not to your liking. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] Your math is awful. Not everything is 1:1. A big mod could be $4, it's all at the discretion of the modder. The cuts were garbage so $1 for a sword makes sense. [editline]28th April 2015[/editline] Passion or not money incentivizes people. You don't work at a job for the "passion" of it.[/QUOTE] How do you come to the conclusion it would be 4$? The split is not going to change when this comes back, it will still be no more than 25% to the modder, even people on your side say it won't change, like Catbarf. I agree with him, it won't be more than 25% to the modder. Therefore, how you come to the conclusion that a feature changing mod would only be 4$ is insane, and literally baseless. My math comes from the extrapolation of work a 1$ sword model is compared to the effort of editing a code base in a non game breaking way. I'm justifying it as about 10x more time intensive in the long run, thus 10x the cost. That gives us 10$. Your math is 'Well I think it'd be this much', I can't argue with your opinion when you divorce it from reality, so how about I argue with something of substance rather than your argument here?

Valve was right in that one of the biggest issues with this was trying to shoehorn it into a mod community that was already thriving for years and years without paid mods. Build a game from the ground up with this system in mind, and give modders the opportunity to earn a fair amount based on the amount of effort they put into the content they contribute to the game (like Unreal Tournament). Don't shove a wedge into a mod community that's already fine. And CERTAINLY don't attempt such a large undertaking when your company can't even figure out how to respond to fucking support tickets correctly.

This has already done a lot of irreparable damage to the modding community. People who were formerly respected and cherished are now seen as scammers or greedy due to only a few short days of monetization. Some mods have been removed and have yet to return anywhere along with their authors.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47620498]Valve was right in that one of the biggest issues with this was trying to shoehorn it into a mod community that was already thriving for years and years without paid mods. Build a game from the ground up with this system in mind, and give modders the opportunity to earn a fair amount based on the amount of effort they put into the content they contribute to the game (like Unreal Tournament). Don't shove a wedge into a mod community that's already fine. And CERTAINLY don't attempt such a large undertaking when your company can't even figure out how to respond to fucking support tickets correctly.[/QUOTE] That's called an engine

[QUOTE=Map in a box;47620141] Passion or not money incentivizes people. You don't work at a job for the "passion" of it.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it provides incentive. It provides incentive to make the maximum amount of profit for the least amount of work [I]at least[/I] as much as it is an incentive for a job well done. You need only look at how the Skyrim workshop started to see how true that is. Passion is what's important to make a mod great. And you know what, we've gotten by 20 [B]years[/B] on pretty much passion alone. There should be more avenues to support mod creators, but I firmly believe that mods should remain free for pretty much anything short of total conversions and the like, or like the upcoming Unreal Tournament, the game should be built with this business model in mind where you basically pay for the content you want and that's your game.

The damage is done and there's no going back; now that it's been seen that this can be done to games, or rather, that some company had the balls to do it and it [I]might work[/I], like DLC and microtransactions all together before it, it'll end up happening somewhere, eventually. As long as some fucker can make a dollar or a dime, it's gonna happen.