Victory for paid mod boycotters: Valve removes payment feature from TES: Skyrim area of the Steam Wo - Polidicks

[QUOTE=TheWhiteFox1;47613674]i really doubt they did this because "they admit they have screwed up" and more "oh shit 99% of the community is calling us out on this"[/QUOTE] AKA Public relations. It's impossible for a business to feel bad about something, really. It's a business. If they're doing something, it's because they're doing it in the interest of profits. It's possible for people *in* the business to feel one way or another, but Valve only reacted because it hurt their image. It's also the same reason why I'm not getting so wound up about Valve in the first place.

[QUOTE=Cold;47613744]I am not sure why you're expecting it to be "Dragon Bow Reskin for 14.99". The market might as well has balanced around major mods like SkyUI costing a dollar, and most stuff still being free because very few bought it.[/QUOTE] i was hoping if it did stick around it would balance out, but i saw a fair few prices which i thought definitely werent worth it in the first day or two, which was a pity because they were mods i would have used otherwise.

[QUOTE=Cold;47613744]I am not sure why you're expecting it to be "Dragon Bow Reskin for 14.99". The market might as well has balanced around major mods like SkyUI costing a dollar, and most stuff still being free because very few bought it.[/QUOTE] Any mod that fixes/improves [on the companies basis] on an existing feature in the game shouldn't be paid for. It should be in the game by default. Why in god's name they don't update the bloody game yet have time to start up paid modding is beyond me. Just look at all the fixes the "unofficial patch" adds, it's pages and pages. Obviously, I am aware it takes time and money to continue supporting a game, but come on.. if your going to release paid modding you might as well just ask for the fixes to put in the game by default.

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47613720]I don't know where you got that from that particular comment, I am perfectly aware there are good arguments for having it, but the way valve did it was out of line. Assumptions are fun!![/QUOTE] Cool, so it doesn't need to apply to you! The point is there's plenty of people who are seriously under belief that modders shouldn't be allowed to sell their mods under any circumstances, and I think that's silly

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47613780]Any mod that fixes/improves [on the companies basis] on an existing feature in the game shouldn't be paid for. It should be in the game by default. Why in god's name they don't update the bloody game yet have time to start up paid modding is beyond me. Just look at all the fixes the "unofficial patch" adds, it's pages and pages. Obviously, I am aware it takes time and money to continue supporting a game, but come on.. if your going to release paid modding you might as well just ask for the fixes to put in the game by default.[/QUOTE] Last time i checked its besteda who updates the game, and valve who puts buttons on workshop pages. I agree that the "unofficial patch" should probably be embraced by Bethesda and become the official patch. But until that happens i still think that the modders deserve to be compensated for their work if they choose to do so. Even if what they made should have been in the game to begin with.

[QUOTE=Elspin;47613795]Cool, so it doesn't need to apply to you! The point is there's plenty of people who are seriously under belief that modders shouldn't be allowed to sell their mods under any circumstances, and I think that's silly[/QUOTE] Great, first, traditionally, mods have always been free because they were considered hobbies, and were made to fix or improve upon the basic game which the company failed to deliver upon (with obvious exception to total conversions or fun mods) so that type of thing not being free doesn't sit well with many people, and they don't buy the "modders are starving / need the money" for one second, considering they were fine up to 20 years ago. Also, yeah, it was a big "fuck you!" to consumers, who would now have to pay even more money for things that used to be free, so the anger was expected. [QUOTE=Xubs;47613806]Because paid modding gives Bethesda money, meaning it's always worth the time to their business. Support windows don't (usually) give a company money, it's why after a certain amount of years, usually 3, a game is abandoned for updating. Since they can't fix all of those bugs themselves in that support window, or they literally just don't know about them (or they're so small and low-priority they just don't care), the mod community fixed those for them, and that's why you have the Unofficial Patches. Companies probably would support games a lot longer if it didn't drain resources to spend time making updates.[/QUOTE] It probably would have looked better if they had updated the game first before pulling this "paid for mods" stuff

[QUOTE=poopman234;47613472]VICTORY!!![/QUOTE] yeah, sure is victory, now you just have to deal with DLC and no mod tools for any games victory!

If there was better quality control, I'd honestly pay for larger, intense, high-effort mods like Falskaar, something with so much work put into it that I'd just feel shitty not paying the guy for it. Frostfall? Maybe. When I first heard about this, I expected they'd be charging for the mods that are so big they might as well be DLC. In an ideal world, Valve gets a slight cut, Bethesda gets a slight cut, but they help those modders with in-game integration (This is how weapon customizations were added from a Fallout 3 mod to Fallout: New Vegas as a default feature, just not as a paid DLC). Not something like armors and what they came up with.

i am just glad that paid mods is over this was a disaster :tinfoil:

[QUOTE=3221drdew;47613861]i am just glad that paid mods is over this was a disaster :tinfoil:[/QUOTE] this is just the beginning.

[QUOTE=~Myst;47613573]Counter Terrorists Win. Wonder if Valve will still be hated to this degree after this.[/QUOTE] They might get shamed for doing it, but it was a good idea, with very bad execution. Really good mod creators should be able to receive money for doing something they did in their down time. For example, add a donation button for mods after a person has downloaded and run the mod for the first time.

[QUOTE=Xubs;47613846]It would've, but big companies can't spend time doing that sort of stuff because of money. I'm not defending it, just justifying that big companies [I]really do not care.[/I] They're doing all they do for money, not for any kind of passion. Valve and Bethesda pulled this because the backlash was so huge it had begun to threaten PR, and by extension, their money.[/QUOTE] You think they could pull one guy aside and say "Spend 3 days and look at this mod and how it fixes the game, and take the best fixes" like seriously all it would take is review of the code to make sure nothing malicious was there and go "can we put this in the game" "okay" "great" You would think it would almost pay itself off from the little publicity - "Game still updating after 3 years! Amazing!" Ofc it would break mods but w/e it would be an excuse to update them so they could sell them.

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47613831]Great, first, traditionally, mods have always been free because they were considered hobbies, and were made to fix or improve upon the basic game which the company failed to deliver upon[/QUOTE] ...actually I'm pretty sure mods were always free because it was illegal, seeing as you needed permission from the game's creator and nobody's ever been able to swing it by them before. [QUOTE](with obvious exception to total conversions or fun mods) so that type of thing not being free doesn't sit well with many people, and they don't buy the "modders are starving / need the money" for one second, considering they were fine up to 20 years ago.[/QUOTE] Of course people are upset at the prospect that something they used to get for free might have to be bought, but giving the people who want it for free the choice of whether the people making the content should be allowed to sell it is a huge conflict of interest and overall a huge joke. Of course most modders aren't "starving" but if a modder was able to make an actual living off of making a really good mod it's possibly they could put more time and effort into their modding. [QUOTE]Also, yeah, it was a big "fuck you!" to consumers, who would now have to pay even more money for things that used to be free, so the anger was expected.[/QUOTE] Again, it's a way bigger fuck you to modders, because the people who are actually doing the work weren't the people who were given the choice in the end. I'm not necessarily saying that most modders were for/against this because I've only seen opinions from a few people but why should the consumers have a say in whether the people who are actually doing the work get to do?

But what'll become of quality paid mods like the Extra Apple?

[QUOTE=s0beit;47613852]yeah, sure is victory, now you just have to deal with DLC and no mod tools for any games victory![/QUOTE] As opposed to being nickel-and-dimed for single swords and suits of armor with no quality control or even benefit to the guy who made the damn thing Okay.

People don't deserved to get paid for their work! woo!!

I'm just left wondering what Valve/Steam will be like in a few years. Not quite sure what to expect. Respect to valve at least for listening to this.

Valve and Bethesda right now [video=youtube;ubU-dB8B-94]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubU-dB8B-94[/video]

[QUOTE=Elspin;47613882]Again, it's a way bigger fuck you to modders, because the people who are actually doing the work weren't the people who were given the choice in the end. I'm not necessarily saying that most modders were for/against this because I've only seen opinions from a few people but why should the consumers have a say in whether the people who are actually doing the work get to do?[/QUOTE] Oh no, consumers standing up to not being nickel and dimed at every turn :rolleyes:

and with that the reputation of the Wet and Cold and SkyUI developers will sink along with the Workshop mods.

[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54123195/WESTNEXUS.PNG[/img]

[QUOTE=Elspin;47613882]...actually I'm pretty sure mods were always free because it was illegal, seeing as you needed permission from the game's creator and nobody's ever been able to swing it by them before. Of course people are upset at the prospect that something they used to get for free might have to be bought, but giving the people who want it for free the choice of whether the people making the content should be allowed to sell it is a huge conflict of interest and overall a huge joke. Of course most modders aren't "starving" but if a modder was able to make an actual living off of making a really good mod it's possibly they could put more time and effort into their modding. Again, it's a way bigger fuck you to modders, because the people who are actually doing the work weren't the people who were given the choice in the end. I'm not necessarily saying that most modders were for/against this because I've only seen opinions from a few people but why should the consumers have a say in whether the people who are actually doing the work get to do?[/QUOTE] Because they're the people funding the game and funding the modders and their opinion, like it or not, is what drives business in that area? Hence why the boycott worked? I agree that modders deserve the opportunity to work full time on their stuff and if they want, get funded - I think most people agree on that. The philosophy behind what they did wasn't at all the problem - it was the pay cut modders got (which was a total pittance), it was the fact that there was no screening process behind mods that charged money, so you got a bunch of really shitty mods asking for money and flooding the workshop, it was the fact that a bunch of novices who ripped some free sword model into their game saw an opportunity to make easy money for little to no work. Mods that deserve to be paid for (like Falksaar, or immersive weapons, or Nehrim from the old Oblivion days) deserve to be paid for without a doubt. But they're like a fucking dime a dozen compared to stuff that a consumer should never have to pay for - like the unofficial patch, or the millions of minor modifications that exist. If there were statistics those sort of mods probably represent around 1% of existent mods. The line there is way too blurry and way too difficult for such a simple system like the one they introduced to handle. What they should have done was something like allowing the mod creator to apply to have his mod be a paid mod, subject to review process by the studio that made the game, or a simple fee like they introduced with greenlight. Something to screen quality.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;47613953][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54123195/WESTNEXUS.PNG[/img][/QUOTE] That is up there with "putting mlp characters in war pictures"

[QUOTE=ColdWave;47613589]I mean holy fuck, I bet a billion big smackaroos they were going to try and enforce this shit with Fallout 4 had it stayed.[/QUOTE] They probably still will. They specifically state in the announcement that it was a mistake to try and enforce this new system on a game with an established mod community. They will probably try this again when Fallout 4 comes about from the very beginning.

And there goes Garry's dreams of paid mods for Gmod. Good to see that calling out on Valve's bullshit actually works for once.

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;47613984]And there goes Garry's dreams of paid mods for Gmod. Good to see that calling out on Valve's bullshit actually works for once.[/QUOTE] All they're gonna do is revise the system, and probably add it to a new game, starting on a clean slate, without an established modding community.

I'm pretty sure certain popular modders have actually deleted their free shit from Nexus inb4 they storm back with excuses and reuploads "look guys we couldn't sell the 2.0 premium ultimate edition for $40 so yeah here have it for free also pls donate"

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;47613928]Valve and Bethesda right now [video=youtube;ubU-dB8B-94]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubU-dB8B-94[/video][/QUOTE] Can anyone or any company make a mistake and retract it without it being said that they're backpedaling nowadays?

[QUOTE=Zatar963;47614000]Can anyone or any company make a mistake and retract it without it being said that they're backpedaling nowadays?[/QUOTE] No because big-bad companies can't change their minds

[QUOTE=bdd458;47613931]Oh no, consumers standing up to not being nickel and dimed at every turn :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Putting something up for sale is not "nickel and diming you" any more than shit games being put on steam's store is. True statement: -paid mods were attempted to be sold for too much money for too little content, so they were not worth buying False (borderline delusional) statement: -in a free market, if you don't deem something to be valuable it should not be allowed to exist or be sold to be clear, I think the blatant lack of moderation and profit split were horrendous but more often I'm just seeing a bunch of illogical nonsense being spouted