[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;43558546]One thing I absolutely loved though: Being able to incapacitate foes without killing them using your hands. That was something that always bugged me is it was either garotte everyone or stick them with the syringes. And I loved doing tricky things with the syringes instead of having to just stick people. So being able to knock someone out without them was nice. Syringes must come back though so I can poison more donuts.
Also, keep the throwing system, its just hilarious. There is something magnificent about hurling a fireaxe in a flat arc and watching it track a guy and nail him in the back.
[editline]16th January 2014[/editline]
Everything having to deal with that asshole was dumb. Like 47 just went completely braindead the first time he saw that guy and just lost the plot and all sense.
Seriously, if he hadn't fucked with that guy and just done his job, then things would've been great.[/QUOTE]
Knocking someone out only by using your hands just makes a low-kills run too easy. And it's also less realistic.
Like in Deus Ex:HR; Adam punches someone in their face with his robotic arms and they just go to sleep. I always had it nag at me in the back of my mind that: Fuck! These people have gone into brain-death for sure by now.
What I liked about Blood Money was how just only had two non-lethal knockouts avaible.
[QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;43567522]Knocking someone out only by using your hands just makes a low-kills run too easy. And it's also less realistic.
Like in Deus Ex:HR; Adam punches someone in their face with his robotic arms and they just go to sleep. I always had it nag at me in the back of my mind that: Fuck! These people have gone into brain-death for sure by now.
What I liked about Blood Money was how just only had two non-lethal knockouts avaible.[/QUOTE]But that makes non-lethal either just avoid people entirely, or not possible. If you're willing to take the time to knock everyone out, that's fine. I don't see the problem. If you don't want to, you don't [I]have[/I] to.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;43567543]But that makes non-lethal either just avoid people entirely, or not possible. If you're willing to take the time to knock everyone out, that's fine. I don't see the problem. If you don't want to, you don't [I]have[/I] to.[/QUOTE]
That's what I liked about having only two knock-out syringes. You had to be really careful if you didn't want to kill anybody instead of resorting to magic sleep-snuggles.
Having only two syringes might be too little, but still: In games like such; knock outs should be limited.
Resorting to hugging everyone into sleep is just cheap.
[editline]17th January 2014[/editline]
What could work would be that there'd be a surprisingly high chance for accidentally killing someone with you sleeping punches and snuggles.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43558354]Like I mean. The agency's HQ is in Denmark, I don't know why they would have so much stuff in the Dakotas and Chicago.
[editline]16th January 2014[/editline]
Absolution has so many holes in it that can be found just by looking at it and thinking, wait why?
[editline]16th January 2014[/editline]
I really want to know what the meeting was like.
"Were going from a super exotic, transnational sort of adventure with a lot of really neat locals, to a small town in the Dakotas."[/QUOTE]
Wait, hold the fuck up. How in the hell are those plotholes?
Diana needed to disappear after betraying the agency, so she went to Chicago and holed the fuck by surrounding her home with armed guards.
Then, after [sp]Dexter kidnaps Victoria using that spitfuck Lenny and his sick buddy Wade[/sp], the Agency follows Agent 47 and Dexter to where Dexter Industries is located: The Dakotas!
I get where you're coming from, but keep something in mind: Benjamin Travis was only a Section Chief. That means that he was either in charge of the MidWest operations, or the United States in general, which makes the resources that they had in the area understandable. That's also why he joked about "signing power", and their budget all the time.
[editline]17th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=RautaPalli;43564745]It made a lot of sense in some areas and absolutely none in others (would you run to the cops if you saw a new stall vendor in this big Chinese marketplace?) . That's why I liked the Hitman 2 system, it was level and disguise specific.[/QUOTE]
I'll give you that. The whole "I know every single person who works here and [b]YOU AIN'T ONE[/b]" thing was kind of irritating, but as game mechanic it mixed things up.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;43567986]Diana needed to disappear after betraying the agency, so she went to Chicago and holed the fuck by surrounding her home with armed guards.[/QUOTE]
[sp]As I recall it, Diana didn't actually betray the Agency. She was specifically tasked with doing what she did to help throw attention off the Agency from the end of Blood Money and to eventually reveal Benjamin Travis's corruption within the Agency. Basically, they couldn't definitively prove his actions, so they used her and, unbeknownst to him, 47 to reveal him and put him in a situation that would allow him to be removed.[/sp]
I just want another Mardi Gras level. You can lay waste to hundreds on one street, the party keeps going on the next.
[QUOTE=Fetret;43568590]I just want another Mardi Gras level. You can lay waste to hundreds on one street, the party keeps going on the next.[/QUOTE]
the wonders of budgeting and jazz
[editline]18th January 2014[/editline]
itd be hella funny if they just didnt mention anything from absolution, carry on like only blood money was the latest to happen
[editline]18th January 2014[/editline]
i hope we see more kane and lynch though, i reckon if IO made a fragile alliance online only game that'd be pretty boss
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;43558546]One thing I absolutely loved though: Being able to incapacitate foes without killing them using your hands. That was something that always bugged me is it was either garotte everyone or stick them with the syringes. And I loved doing tricky things with the syringes instead of having to just stick people. So being able to knock someone out without them was nice. Syringes must come back though so I can poison more donuts.[/QUOTE]
The syringe/garotte scenario made sense though.
If someone is rendered unconscious from a sleeper hold, they usually wake up after a few seconds or minutes. You can't know. And if they don't, there's in all likelihood permanent damage to the brain - from lack of air or blood flow for more than a couple of minutes.
Which is why a professional assassin looking to incapacitate someone would use sedatives. In syringes. Or donuts.
On an unrelated note it was also more fun as a gameplay mechanic to plan around what you could do with a limited supply of syringes. Knocking people out like in Absolution just reminds me of the retarded Hollywood trope, which it was probably fashioned after anyway.
I'd love to see more set piece kills than ever before. Like, environmental deaths that you can get if you're in the right place to trigger them. Not necessarily on the bosses, but guards too.
Like if your hidden around a corner with a fireaxe and a guard is approaching, you hit 'special attack' at the right moment and your guy swings his axe at the guys face around the corner, grabs his shirt with both hands, as the axe is embedded, and pulls him and the axe around the corner as it collapses into a glorious rag-doll. Probably like two or three different animations for this.
If you had a knife it'd alternatively be a throat-slit as opposed to the fire-axe swing. Probably like 5-6 different animations for this.
If you had a pistol, it'd be a knockout melee pistol-whip. You'd probably want like 8 different animations for this as it'd likely be more common.
Another example, if you're behind a door and aware of someone approaching from the other side, you yank the door open as the baddie starts to open it, putting him off balance and somehow transition into a surprise neck break (or weapon takedown) which ends with both of you inside the room, and the door closed.
Also unique environmental deaths. Stuff like slamming a guys face into a slot machine, pull the bandit arm, jackpot, and bloody coins spill everywhere.
[QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;43567572]That's what I liked about having only two knock-out syringes. You had to be really careful if you didn't want to kill anybody instead of resorting to magic sleep-snuggles.
Having only two syringes might be too little, but still: In games like such; knock outs should be limited.
Resorting to hugging everyone into sleep is just cheap.
[editline]17th January 2014[/editline]
What could work would be that there'd be a surprisingly high chance for accidentally killing someone with you sleeping punches and snuggles.[/QUOTE]
In blood money you could take anybody hostage with the pistol and then knock them out as many times as needed. The downside was that they needed to be alone, otherwise they would alert everybody around.
[QUOTE=Chrille;43569476]The syringe/garotte scenario made sense though.
If someone is rendered unconscious from a sleeper hold, they usually wake up after a few seconds or minutes. You can't know. And if they don't, there's in all likelihood permanent damage to the brain - from lack of air or blood flow for more than a couple of minutes.
Which is why a professional assassin looking to incapacitate someone would use sedatives. In syringes. Or donuts.
On an unrelated note it was also more fun as a gameplay mechanic to plan around what you could do with a limited supply of syringes. Knocking people out like in Absolution just reminds me of the retarded Hollywood trope, which it was probably fashioned after anyway.[/QUOTE]
You sure said it better than I did.
And on top of that:
Magical knock-out punches or chokes usually just use the same gameplay mechanics as their deadly counterpart. Only just translated into a binary good area with the only downsides being that they tend to be less effective directly when it comes down to neutralizing the enemy.
[QUOTE=KorJax;43566840]Yeah I agree. Absolution's more free-form Blood-Money style assassination levels were very awesome, even considering the annoying disguise mechanic. And the level design was pretty varied and good throughout the game too.
The problem was there were equal amounts of "escape" style missions which were awful for the kind of game that Hitman is, that involve no assassin business at all, and often relied on you sneaking around. And a handful of the assassination missions, especially late game, required you to take a mostly-linear path to get to the room your target was in, in which you did some cutscene or only had one option. These levels were by far the weakest in the game from a design standpoint.
But again that said the game is totally worth buying on sale. Even some of the non-assassiny missions were cool (I loved the whole barfight scene you start) and the game does some awesome stuff. Its clear that the devs behind it have some serious skill and talent at doing what they do, they just decided to focus the design of the game away from straight up assassination missions which was probably not the wisest of design goals to have for the game.[/QUOTE]
There was a good "escape" style mission when [sp]the nuns attacked the hotel. There was a lot of sneaking to be done and about 7 different targets. It was a neat combination of assassination and action that could be played in a number of ways, I really liked picking my targets off one by one with my bare hands and escaping unnoticed.[/sp] Like you say though, there were too many missions that focused on other objectives. I'd like to do some globetrotting assassination in the next game, that's Hitman at its best.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;43564715]I kind of preferred Absolution's system to be fair, it made a lot of sense. If I was a security guard stationed at a hotel, I'd probably know what the other guards looked like. On the other hand, I'd probably not really take note of who the janitor is.[/QUOTE]
That's why I think an expansion of Blood Money's system would be better. Suspicion should relate to several factors:
1. Identity. If there are two guards on the night shift and you replace one of them, the other guy should be immediately suspicious. If you're just another street vendor, nobody should notice.
2. Activity. A security guard walking down the hall should not be suspicious at all. A security guard walking through every bank vault may be suspicious. Walking around in the open, not suspicious. Following someone into a small room- definitely suspicious.
3. The observer. Each AI type would have to be tailored on an individual basis. The janitor probably doesn't care what the security guard is doing so shouldn't react to the same things as the guards.
4. Distraction and focus. If I slip out of a party into a room where I shouldn't be, I should be able to do that without anyone noticing. Simply being in plain sight should not make you a target of suspicion, and this ties in with #2. Actions that call attention to yourself should then lead to closer scrutiny.
These are not especially difficult ideas to program, if you think about it, and while realistic they're not necessarily frustratingly realistic (like randomized guard patterns or realistic eyesight tend to be in most stealth games). This is definitely a case of gameplay needing to be refined rather than technical limitations.
Absolution had quite boring environments when compared to earlier hitman games and the very varied levels and themes.
I also hope the retarded absolution agency wont return with their weird private army with retarded uniforms and insignia. How is the agency able to work unnoticed? (especially when they seem to have no qualms about blowing up houses and taking a whole town hostage when they look for one guy)
edit: even the battle nuns could've worked if they were established as cool characters/antagonists somehow but they didn't get any development.
silent assassin was one of the best ones, has the best story
blood money's gun customization is excellent
[editline]17th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;43558299]I don't reccommend Codename 47 to anyone nowadays though. It's aged terribly, and was even slightly dated when it came out.
[editline]beans[/editline]
Well shit. RIP automerge.[/QUOTE]
The controls are uber-awful and the game is confusing and frustrating
Wait, people are complaining about being able to KO people with your hands?
You can do that in fucking Blood Money. It's actually my favorite part of replaying Blood Money; playing Dickman instead of Hitman, where I just punch out everyone stealthily.
[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;43568627]i hope we see more kane and lynch though[/QUOTE]
Optimize it and ignore non-coop multiplayer in favor of story and SP/Coop mechanics and you've sold me.
[QUOTE=Falchion;43572610]Absolution had quite boring environments when compared to earlier hitman games and the very varied levels and themes.
I also hope the retarded absolution agency wont return with their weird private army with retarded uniforms and insignia. How is the agency able to work unnoticed? (especially when they seem to have no qualms about blowing up houses and taking a whole town hostage when they look for one guy)
edit: even the battle nuns could've worked if they were established as cool characters/antagonists somehow but they didn't get any development.[/QUOTE]
Absolution's environments were pretty great though. A few were kind of boring, but honestly the levels were a LOT more fun, lively, and detailed than Blood Money's.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;43575399]Wait, people are complaining about being able to KO people with your hands?
You can do that in fucking Blood Money. It's actually my favorite part of replaying Blood Money; playing Dickman instead of Hitman, where I just punch out everyone stealthily.[/QUOTE]
Favorite part of BM is headbutting people in the nose then boxing the shit of them. The sound of their nose breaking is gruesome and then punching them out sounds so Saturday morning cartoon-y. Its great.
[QUOTE=Nestophales;43575882]Favorite part of BM is headbutting people in the nose then boxing the shit of them. The sound of their nose breaking is gruesome and then punching them out sounds so Saturday morning cartoon-y. Its great.[/QUOTE]
*KRAK* OIiiiaaagh!
*PAFF PAFF*
Ahh, the memories of completing A New Life by punching out everyone in my suit.
[QUOTE=catbarf;43572502]That's why I think an expansion of Blood Money's system would be better. Suspicion should relate to several factors:
1. Identity. If there are two guards on the night shift and you replace one of them, the other guy should be immediately suspicious. If you're just another street vendor, nobody should notice.
2. Activity. A security guard walking down the hall should not be suspicious at all. A security guard walking through every bank vault may be suspicious. Walking around in the open, not suspicious. Following someone into a small room- definitely suspicious.
3. The observer. Each AI type would have to be tailored on an individual basis. The janitor probably doesn't care what the security guard is doing so shouldn't react to the same things as the guards.
4. Distraction and focus. If I slip out of a party into a room where I shouldn't be, I should be able to do that without anyone noticing. Simply being in plain sight should not make you a target of suspicion, and this ties in with #2. Actions that call attention to yourself should then lead to closer scrutiny.
These are not especially difficult ideas to program, if you think about it, and while realistic they're not necessarily frustratingly realistic (like randomized guard patterns or realistic eyesight tend to be in most stealth games). This is definitely a case of gameplay needing to be refined rather than technical limitations.[/QUOTE]
Spot on, couldn't agree more. Please throw this list attached to a brick into their windows.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;43558325]Have fun even getting it to run (properly) these days.[/QUOTE]
Bit late, but cap the game's fps to 60 and change your refresh rate to 60. Both Codename 47 and Silent Assassin will work great.
Absolution was too linear, too story driven and the disguises didn't work so well. They should bring back more of the open style levels that Blood Money had, and generally more interaction and ways to assassinate. Absolution had a bunch of ways, but they all seemed thrown in your face and there was no real creativity to coming up with an assassination of your own.
good good good and more good.
Im Excited for the new hitman game.
I enjoyed Absolution quite a bit, but it has a lot of irritating stuff and is far from perfect.
For example, entering a room with 2 civilian scientists and knocking them out and hiding the bodies will fail the Infiltrator challenge because obviously they spot you when you come in to knock them out.
So you have to lure them one at a time with objects, which is quite bull and gets silly when the last remaining NPC doesn't give a single fuck about all of his buddies just disappearing around..
[editline]24th January 2014[/editline]
But I gotta say I'm looking forward to any next Hitman game in the series.
I hope they don't fuck it up.
I beat the trainstation platform mission by spinning around in circles so no one guard was looking at my face longer than a second.
You think they'd notice a guy spinning around in circles though...
I also hope they can bring Jesper Kyd back for the music this time.
[QUOTE=Lebowski;43657275]I hope they don't fuck it up.
I beat the trainstation platform mission by spinning around in circles so no one guard was looking at my face longer than a second.
You think they'd notice a guy spinning around in circles though...[/QUOTE]
Yep, tons of immersion break in Hitman Absolution, that's for sure..
[editline]24th January 2014[/editline]
Also I have to say difficulty doesn't mean much in this game. If you want to play by certain rules, like Suit Only+Infiltrator mode, doing it on Purist would be stupidly hard when compared to Normal when it's just really hard.
I think it would be funny to bring Blood Money's body bag system back. I fell out of the chair with laughter first time I saw it.
I wish IO was this open for the kane and lynch series. :(
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