Live by the gun, die by the gun: Utah man to die by firing squad - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22691189]The average execution costs 1 million dollars. A life in prison inmate costs 2 million dollars for 100 years in prison.[/QUOTE] Nobody is in prison for 100 years though. I would say 60-70 at most.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22691208]So on that accord, we should do what with people who are convicted of gang-related assault? Deem them unworthy of an attempt and condemn them as well? Again, the point should be rehabilitation, not vengeance. [editline]06:07PM[/editline] Sources for either?[/QUOTE] The source for the $55 a day average comes from the Florida Department of Corrections. [editline]06:12PM[/editline] [QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;22691247]Nobody is in prison for 100 years though. I would say 60-70 at most.[/QUOTE] Yea, but there are 2.2 million inmates in the US. Not all are for life, but the cost carries over. [editline]06:13PM[/editline] Not to mention that in the last days of a inmate's life in jail, they are put on expensive life support systems.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22691298]The source for the $55 a day average comes from the Florida Department of Corrections.[/QUOTE] I see that (No thanks to your post, I checked the image properties, good work using someone else's graph without a source on the graph or in your text, way to make yourself look good), but you didn't cite the figures you listed, and one hundred years is a stupid number, no one really even lives until 100 in prison, nevermind living IN prison for a hundred years.

Fucking inmates cost more than I :(

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22691052]I have one, it's a lot short than that but it makes sense. What you're saying in essence from your long rambling post is these two things: 1: We haven't actually advanced that much morally/ethically in the last two hundred years, so we shouldn't bother trying. This is coupled with the fact that most of what you're using as examples actually being invalid, anyway. 2: That because one person took someone's life, we should take away their life in turn. This is purely a moral decision, but if looked at with a logical eye, it makes no sense. My answers to these two claims are as follows: 1: We actually have made great strides other than technological, if you weren't a blind idiot you would see that much clearer. Go look at common practices of the nineteenth century, it was horrible, with mass inequality and slavery being common everywhere in the world. Now this sort of gross injustice is more rare, relegated to poorer countries and regions as well as ones controlled by incompetent leaders. This is no longer tolerated. In short; we have advanced far more than you would like to think. 2: Again, this is a purely moral claim, that one who takes life away does not have the "luxury" of life. I would say to you that life is not something that one can label as merely a luxury, but a right that no man has the authority to deprive another of, except in extreme cases of dire urgency and action. Also, what would you say of the many crimes that receive capital sentencing but are not murder cases?[/QUOTE] Fuck evolving. It's a wasted effort. Kill the prick, he's a murderer. The world's just going to get stupider and stupider, and we're all going to die. Just make as much money as you can off the stupidity and watch humanity burn from whatever world comes after death.

[QUOTE=JDK721;22688864]it doesn't matter allowing the government to execute its own citizens with a firing squad is barbaric also, he chose the firing squad to demonstrate just how messed up Utah is. he did it to prove a point.[/QUOTE] You are bloody retarded, you're siding with this guy? He murdered innocents.

[QUOTE=StormHammer;22691625]You are bloody retarded, you're siding with this guy? He murdered innocents.[/QUOTE] Something I've never understood is why there are people who will stand up and say that a person who killed others for absolutely no reason deserves mercy or any type of comfort at all.

[QUOTE=StormHammer;22691625]You are bloody retarded, you're siding with this guy? He murdered innocents.[/QUOTE] Because someone did something bad and thinks something else is bad, doesn't mean that the something else is actually good. Guilt by association is a logically fallacy. A great example of this is that smoking is bad for you. Or maybe you think that smoking is perfectly healthy because Hitler thought that it was an unhealthy thing?

This was posted a long bit ago.

[QUOTE=MonkeyMan44;22689393]Why not?[/QUOTE] cost, deterrence, ethicality Fails all.

[QUOTE=JDK721;22688864]it doesn't matter allowing the government to execute its own citizens with a firing squad is barbaric also, he chose the firing squad to demonstrate just how messed up Utah is. he did it to prove a point.[/QUOTE] How are you going to argue that one form of death is nicer than another? And like some asshole who shot a bailiff in court and murdered a lawyer hardly deserves some sympathy. Why is everyone so up a killer's ass about sympathy? You committed a crime you knew would get you punished. People should be so lucky to get a bullet to the head and not something more deserving.

Wait. I thought he changed to lethal injection?

[QUOTE=johanz;22691180]No, if justice was revenge, every criminal would be dead or tortured to death. What why!? I live on 10$ a day, not counting bills and stuff like clothes.[/QUOTE] I think a big part of the price they include is paying to keep them under guard. I bet that's a majority of the cost. It's still pathetic that people in prison get the basics that some American citizens don't even get. 3 meals a day, cable TV, and a roof over your head. All you have to do is commit a crime.

[QUOTE=JohnStamosFan;22692141]I think a big part of the price they include is paying to keep them under guard. I bet that's a majority of the cost. It's still pathetic that people in prison get the basics that some American citizens don't even get. 3 meals a day, cable TV, and a roof over your head. All you have to do is commit a crime.[/QUOTE] This makes me wonder, why hobos don't commit crimes?

[QUOTE=johanz;22692186]This makes me wonder, why hobos don't commit crimes?[/QUOTE] From what I've read, it's fairly common for hobos to commit small crimes so they do go to jail. They don't go and murder someone, but they may do something simple like break into a store or something. It's more common in the winter however, as it helps them get away from the cold.

[QUOTE=johanz;22692186]This makes me wonder, why hobos don't commit crimes?[/QUOTE] Never read of the hobo who got 15 years for stealing $100?

[QUOTE=JDK721;22688886]four have live rounds one has a blank[/QUOTE] Exactly, they even announced it on NPR when they were talking about this today. Why are all of you disagreeing with him?

[QUOTE=johanz;22692186]This makes me wonder, why hobos don't commit crimes?[/QUOTE] This is probably one of the many reasons why there's such a large recidivism rate in the United States. Poor people who commit a minor crime and go to some kind of minimum or medium security prison could realize this and want to stay. This probably doesn't happen as much in Europe because the poor have better welfare and the third world where prison conditions are terrible. Note that I am speculating and have no evidence to back up my claims.

[QUOTE=MonkeyMan44;22689393]Why not?[/QUOTE] it's barbaric, it costs more than life in prison, innocent people can be executed, murdering a murderer is hypocritical, etc. etc. [QUOTE=raccoon12;22690609]Execution is actually cheaper than a life sentence, dunno what the fuck you're talking about JDK[/QUOTE] uh, no it's not. with all the appeals and such, executing someone in the US costs more than sentencing them to life [QUOTE=Soldier32;22690654]They both still cost a lot of money but execution is cheaper.[/QUOTE] no, it's not [QUOTE=sphynx;22690691]You realise that the US didn't even exist in the Dark Ages right?[/QUOTE] it's called an analogy [QUOTE=Richard Simmons;22690699]Like I said, they do not deserve the luxury of life, since they took it from another.[/QUOTE] uh, yes they do. who are you to say who gets to live and who gets to die? I'm not even going to address the rest of your post. it's fluff. [QUOTE=Jenkem;22691011]And what do you propose? We send them home in a Lamborghini to a mansion, with a five-course dinner waiting for them?[/QUOTE] where did I fucking say or imply that? Jenkem, once again you're pulling stuff out of your ass. I said they should be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. [QUOTE=Uberman77883;22691054]All justice is revenge.[/QUOTE] nope, it's not justice isn't about revenge [QUOTE=Zambies!;22691241]Good to know that you hate the US and post it in every thread possible.[/QUOTE] I don't hate the US. I disagree with many of the government's actions you must live under a rock if you're not upset at all over what the US has done [QUOTE=StormHammer;22691625]You are bloody retarded, you're siding with this guy? He murdered innocents.[/QUOTE] where did I say I agreed or supported him. you guys are pulling stuff out of your ass. [QUOTE=dogmachines;22691767]Something I've never understood is why there are people who will stand up and say that a person who killed others for absolutely no reason deserves mercy or any type of comfort at all.[/QUOTE] how dare human rights be allowed! [QUOTE=lemonlimecom;22692758]Exactly, they even announced it on NPR when they were talking about this today. Why are all of you disagreeing with him?[/QUOTE] FPers are idiots who will post without doing any research or even reading the OP [editline]07:31PM[/editline] [QUOTE=JohnStamosFan;22692106]People should be so lucky to get a bullet to the head and not something more deserving.[/QUOTE] yeah, that would work out great. nothing could possibly go wrong such as innocent people being executed, etc. go live in China

[QUOTE=johanz;22692186]This makes me wonder, why hobos don't commit crimes?[/QUOTE] This reminds me of a story in our local paper where I live. hobo kicked a cop right in the nuts so he could go to jail for free meals and stuff.

In this modern era with all the technology and detective techniques, it is extremely rare that an innocent person gets the death sentence.

The main reason people like the death sentence is because it makes them feel safer in a way. They know a criminal who has taken a life will be off the streets for good. JDK, I hope you know "Life" doesn't mean you stay in prison forever. Along with that, the death sentence does not always cost more than a life sentence. The 'barbaric' argument just proves that you're some stupid argument starter who spends his spare time on FP or watching Law and Order. Where are you getting the information that you can proudly state "Death costs more than a life sentence" without any sort of proof, then ask people for proof of what they say? Excellent. And allow me to point out some things for you. Copy pasta incoming. [quote]Many opponents present, as fact, that the cost of the death penalty is so expensive (at least $2 million per case?), that we must choose life without parole ('LWOP') at a cost of $1 million for 50 years. Predictably, these pronouncements may be entirely false. JFA estimates that LWOP cases will cost $1.2 million - $3.6 million more than equivalent death penalty cases. There is no question that the up front costs of the death penalty are significantly higher than for equivalent LWOP cases. There also appears to be no question that, over time, equivalent LWOP cases are much more expensive... than death penalty cases. Opponents ludicrously claim that the death penalty costs, over time, 3-10 times more than LWOP.[/quote] That's if said suspect lives past his sentence. If it costs more: [quote]In the course of my work, I believe I have reviewed every state and federal study of the costs of the death penalty in the past 25 years. One element is common to all of these studies: They all concluded that the cost of the death penalty amounts to a net expense to the state and the taxpayers. Or to put it differently, the death penalty system is clearly more expensive than a system handling similar cases with a lesser punishment. ...the most expensive system is one that combines the costliest parts of both punishments: lengthy and complicated death penalty trials followed by incarceration for life... Everything that is needed for an ordinary trial is needed for a death penalty case, only more so: • More pre-trial time will be needed to prepare: cases typically take a year to come to trial more pre-trial motions will be filed and answered. • More experts will be hired. • Twice as many attorneys will be appointed for the defense, and a comparable team for the prosecution. • Jurors will have to be individually quizzed on their views about the death penalty, and they are more likely to be sequestered. • Two trials instead of one will be conducted: one for guilt and one for punishment. • The trial will be longer: a cost study at Duke University (752KB) estimated that death penalty trials take 3 to 5 times longer than typical murder trials • And then will come a series of appeals during which the inmates are held in the high security of death row.[/quote] Eventually it all bubbles down to a few certain things. How costly the attorneys are, how long the trials last. However, if the suspect gets life, and they live longer, it will end up costing more than the death penalty. Of course, that's if you're some asshole who isn't acquitted with the general public and thinks it's ok to let somebody who murdered 30 orphans or burned 10 people alive live for another 20 years, and if you're some idiot blinded by legalities and believes in what costs less or what costs more and instead of what is right and what is wrong. "But costing less is right." Not entirely, which I'm sure that's what someone like JDK would think.

[QUOTE=Athena;22691894]cost, deterrence, ethicality Fails all.[/QUOTE] Cost? The day we start thinking about justice/the law purely in terms of cost is the day it stops being justice. Deterrance? Won't argue there- [quote=http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/capitalpunishment/against_1.shtml]In 2003, the murder rate in states where the death penalty has been abolished was 4.10 per cent per 100,000 people. In states where the death penalty is used, the figure was 5.91 per cent.[/QUOTE] Ethicality? Wouldn't that be an individual decision? Personally, I think it's perfectly ethical to take the life of someone who did something like this. Whoever it was that used the "eye for an eye and we'll all be blind" analogy apparently thinks we'll all be killing each other or something. So...."fails?" Maybe one.

[QUOTE=Jaffar;22693177]The main reason people like the death sentence is because it makes them feel safer in a way. They know a criminal who has taken a life will be off the streets for good. [/QUOTE] life without the possibility of parole I've said it five times now broheim [QUOTE=Jaffar;22693177]JDK, I hope you know "Life" doesn't mean you stay in prison forever.[/QUOTE] If you had any reading comprehension skills then you'd realize that I said life [B]without the possibility of parole[/B] [QUOTE=Jaffar;22693177]Along with that, the death sentence does not always cost more than a life sentence.[/QUOTE] [url]http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty[/url] [QUOTE=Jaffar;22693177]The 'barbaric' argument just proves that you're some stupid argument starter who spends his spare time on FP or watching Law and Order.[/QUOTE] what does that have to do with what I watch or spend my time doing you make absolutely no sense [QUOTE=Jaffar;22693177]Of course, that's if you're some asshole who isn't acquitted with the general public and thinks it's ok to let somebody who murdered 30 orphans or burned 10 people alive live for another 20 years, and if you're some idiot blinded by legalities and believes in what costs less or what costs more and instead of what is right and what is wrong. [/QUOTE] yeah, let's just murder murderers. that makes a whole lot of sense. and you're an idiot if you think allowing the government to murder its own citizens is right.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;22690699]They're dumb because you think that we some how evolved to some better being in the last 200 years of [b]technological[/b] advancements. This does not warrant for evolution, or us being a bigger, newer, man. Because we got cars to replace horses, computers to replace paper, windmills to generate power, and the internet to give us all the knowledge we want; doesn't mean we evolved, or grew up. We simply have more shit to "assist" our daily lives. We still live in a theoretical dark-age. Education systems, constrained and pushed back for the middle/lower class, the government, making decisions for us. Taxes for novel every day items, constant debt that we can never give back, and when we quit paying we can face jailtime (Ever hear of the debt jails? I know Britain loved these). So what makes us so much bigger? So much better? Just because we got cars, planes, computers, cellphones, doesn't make us a more civilized species. We fail to work together, and we fail to be a team. We're all out there for ourselves. And back off that tangent, capital punishment isn't a great way to deal with crimes. It was only bad because we sent innocent men to deathbeds. Until recent technology to prove these people were actually the perpetrators, capital punishment can be put into the mix again, without the worries that innocent people were sent off. The men and women who have conducted great misdeeds to their fellow people, do not deserve the luxury of life. They do not deserve, a meal every day till they get parole. They should not be equal to us, as they voluntarily committed a crime so heinous, so evil, it constituted for them to be sent off to be exterminated. Does it make it so bad? I for one, would prefer these people to be put into the ground and face god (Figuratively speaking). They do not deserve our tax dollars to stay awake. Comforted in their concrete shells, where they can communicate and dwell in these environments. Like I said, they do not deserve the luxury of life, since they took it from another. Your rebuttal?[/QUOTE] Way to ruin my night

"Live by the gun, die by the gun." I love that quote.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22692999]In this modern era with all the technology and detective techniques, it is extremely rare that an innocent person gets the death sentence.[/QUOTE] As you said, there is a slim possibility that they could be innocent, and while that possibility remains, no one should be executed.

I would actually prefer to get death by firing squad.

[QUOTE=Fenriswolf;22693558]I would actually prefer to get death by firing squad.[/QUOTE] Then you better have killed someone in Utah before the end of last year, as the new law prohibiting the firing squad was not made retroactive... s

[QUOTE=JDK721;22693267] and you're an idiot if you think allowing the government to murder its own citizens is right.[/QUOTE] It's not like we're fucking nazis.