What the fuck - Old man gives Ukrainian soldiers honey jar with bomb in it, kills 1 soldier and inju - Polidicks - Facepunch Forum

What the fuck - Old man gives Ukrainian soldiers honey jar with bomb in it, kills 1 soldier and inju

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[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46959836][/QUOTE] "they do it too" is no excuse.

[QUOTE=freakadella;46959659]I literally only typed in "ukrainian government civilians" into google and took results from the first page?[/QUOTE] Yeah that's obvious because if you read them you would have realized you just helped my argument.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46959847]Yeah that's obvious because if you read them you would have realized you just helped my argument.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46959847]Because I can't find shit that isn't Russian propaganda. So please, do show me.[/QUOTE] He showed you. What is that you don't like?

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46959846]"they do it too" is no excuse.[/QUOTE] "They do it too" is a reason to give both Ukrainian and Pro-Russians war crime convictions. Both sides should be held accountable. How did you even get that I was trying to legitimize one side when I'm explaining that this is a multi-sided problem not only exacerbated by the Ukrainian military but also by these fucktards hiding with artillery and mortars inside civilian centers, firing out towards the Ukrainians inevitably drawing return fire. [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46959858]He showed you. What is that you don't like?[/QUOTE] All of the sources minus Itar tass and morningstar mention the rebels also being in the wrong, though with the morningstar link that could be understood because there were multiple occasions where the rebels fired out of apartment buildings, again inevitably drawing return fire. Itar doesn't even at all hint towards the other side being in the wrong, just blaming the Ukrainians.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46959877]"They do it too" is a reason to give both Ukrainian and Pro-Russians war crime convictions. Both sides should be held accountable. How did you even get that I was trying to legitimize one side when I'm explaining that this is a multi-sided problem not only exacerbated by the Ukrainian military but also by these fucktards hiding with artillery and mortars inside civilian centers, firing out towards the Ukrainians inevitable drawing return fire.[/QUOTE] Proof on them firing artillery from civillian centers? How the fuck do you fire a GRAD or even a hand mortar out of an apartament building? Maybe these sources blame the ukrainians because the ukrainians were shelling towns for no reason for 3 months? They literally encircled Donetsk and shelled it for no reason. Good luck proving that rebels fired on them from Donetsk.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46959892]Proof on them firing artillery from civillian centers? [b]How the fuck do you fire a GRAD or even a hand mortar out of an apartament building?[/b][/QUOTE] You don't, you fire from outside near the building. How is that fucking hard to understand. [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46959892]Maybe these sources blame the ukrainians because the ukrainians were shelling towns for no reason for 3 months? They literally encircled Donetsk and shelled it for no reason. [b]Good luck proving that rebels fired on them from Donetsk.[/b][/QUOTE] [url]http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebel-says-residential-areas-used-cover-173602443.html[/url] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv39Lc5oSVs[/media] Seriously.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;46959915]You don't, you fire from outside near the building. How is that fucking hard to understand. [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] [url]http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebel-says-residential-areas-used-cover-173602443.html[/url] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv39Lc5oSVs[/media] Seriously.[/QUOTE] I was talking about the first 3 months of shelling, but thanks for sharing this. You see, he is shooting a grenade launcher. This is amoral and all that, but listen to me. A grenade launcher can shoot for a very limited range, realisting max range being somewhat around 500m. Ukrainian army has been shelling the city with Grads and mortars. You know what a grad is like? It's when everything is calm, then everything around you suddenly explodes and you never find out who shot you, from where and using what. Grad fires from over 3 km range. Wiki says it's up to 5km. You can't guide grad missiles to only hit one building that an enemy is firing from. Grad covers a whole city bloc. [video=youtube;ltw4qPHqihQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltw4qPHqihQ[/video] So the Ukrainian side in the beginning of the conflict has been shelling city blocs. Rebels couldn't fire on them from buildings because anything you can fire from buildings can't hit that far. [b]Even if[/b] Ukrainians were provoked by fire from buildings they absolutely knew that firing artillery towards that enemy firing position will destroy the whole bloc and civillian casualties will be much more numerous then enemies killed. Rebels are not nice guys, but there is no excuse to shelling a city with millions of residents with artillery. So maybe the sources this guy showed in your face are not biased? It's not like every news outlet reporting an event like "A guys attacked B guys" should add a "A guys are wrong too" or "B guys are wrong too" at the bottom of the page. At least BBC and CNN don't, I don't see why others should. [b]For your information[/b] Israel has to put up with this "firing from buildings" shit every day. They solve it by using missiles that do not explode if they hit anything but the target. Us has the same technology. Because you do not shell city blocs. You do not shell city blocks no matter what. You win a few pointless enemy kills, but loose the support of the population, so you do not shell city blocs even if your life depends on it. But Ukrainians did and for no apparent reason.

[quote]Because you do not shell city blocs. You do not shell city blocks no matter what. You win a few pointless enemy kills, but loose the support of the population, so you do not shell city blocs even if your life depends on it. But Ukrainians did and for no apparent reason.[/quote] The population will also lose it's resolve to support the rebels, as it's realizing that the grand hope of Novoryssia is over, and that they are going to be stuck in the middle of this brutal war for quiet some time. Granted, I do not agree with bombing civilian centers... Likewise I don't agree with using them as bases of operation which mark them as military targets. Realistically speaking, the Ukrainian government really is in a shit position. Most of their aircraft were lost in the first few days of the conflict, and as far as it stands, all they have is artillery. They are also getting better at it, considering just recently a report has come forward that they have knocked out several Russian artillery positions that were supporting the rebel forces, with artillery. Oh by the by, the Pro-Russian forces(and Russian forces), have been using artillery for the last week, and have shelled multiple civilian homes. They have also killed something like 12 or 13 school children the other day with a grad rocket attack that hit a school bus. So... Yeah. No hands are clean in this conflict. [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgDmROcdQ5Y[/media] What you are hearing is not gunshots... That is artillery. [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6wZHmvOL0o[/media]

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46960088]The population will also lose it's resolve to support the rebels, as it's realizing that the grand hope of Novoryssia is over, and that they are going to be stuck in the middle of this brutal war for quiet some time. Granted, I do not agree with bombing civilian centers... Likewise I don't agree with using them as bases of operation which mark them as military targets. Realistically speaking, the Ukrainian government really is in a shit position. Most of their aircraft were lost in the first few days of the conflict, and as far as it stands, all they have is artillery. They are also getting better at it, considering just recently a report has come forward that they have knocked out several Russian artillery positions that were supporting the rebel forces, with artillery. Oh by the by, the Pro-Russian forces(and Russian forces), have been using artillery for the last week, and have shelled multiple civilian homes. They have also killed something like 12 or 13 school children the other day with a grad rocket attack that hit a school bus. So... Yeah. No hands are clean in this conflict. [/QUOTE] The rebels fucked up big time with the bus, but I think it's a logical result of getting less and less support from Russians and increasingly degrading. It's really true that this war reorganized the Ukrainian army really well, they learned a lot. Rebels didn't.

I agree, but the problem right now is that the Russian army is still supplying the rebels, and even directly aiding the fight. The Ukrainian army is constantly attacking new FOBs in Donestk daily, as well as dealing with attacks from tanks being set up through out the city. Also the grad rockets I posted above, were being directly fired at civilian homes that the Ukrainian forces had managed to take from the rebels. Also, the rebels are starting to load up Ural trucks with ammo crates, and charge them into Ukrainian bases, regardless of civilians nearby.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46960135]I agree, but the problem right now is that the Russian army is still supplying the rebels, and even directly aiding the fight. The Ukrainian army is constantly attacking new FOBs in Donestk daily, as well as dealing with attacks from tanks being set up through out the city. Also the grad rockets I posted above, were being directly fired at civilian homes that the Ukrainian forces had managed to take from the rebels. Also, the rebels are starting to load up Ural trucks with ammo crates, and charge them into Ukrainian bases, regardless of civilians nearby.[/QUOTE] The sad part is that rebel commanders will be killed, few will be prosecuted, but Ukrainian commanders will be heroes.

War is written by the victors as they would say. By the way was just reading the LiveUA map... [quote]Moscow calls for urgent withdrawal of heavy weaponry from #Donbas, says ready to influence militias - Russian FM[/quote] Please tell your leaders, that this isn't how it works. Isn't this like the fifth time Russia has "influenced the militias" before major rebel offensives take place? Not to mention that what I believe to be T-90's have been spotted heading towards the airport :v: [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pkZIitfL1o[/media] Russia... A little obvious now. Just a wee-bit.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46960240]War is written by the victors as they would say. By the way was just reading the LiveUA map... Please tell your leaders, that this isn't how it works. Isn't this like the fifth time Russia has "influenced the militias" before major rebel offensives take place? Not to mention that what I believe to be T-90's have been spotted heading towards the airport :v:[/QUOTE] Alright I sent Putin an sms as you asked.

Make sure to also pack him a lunch. He needs it for his big meetings.

Just gonna say my opinion even tho i'm going to get rated dumb. This is pretty badass. Sucks that innocent soldiers died, but, an ingenius way to assault the enemy none the less. I'm not going to say I feel horribly bad about some ukrainian soldiers who are probably good people whilst I sit in my home thousands of miles away from them ignorant of the situation.

If we to accept that person had his own motives to do such, whatever reasons he had, a hatred or a misplaced sence of vengeance, it's sad to see reqruits who are hardly relevant to his life suffer for mistakes of others. It's also sad that while everybody is busy overlooking rebels for their faults in this conflict, sins of ukranian military are just ignored competely. Because anything that shows that they have their fair share of responsibility for whole this mess is immidiatly dubbed "propaganda" or dismissed with notion "it's ok cause ruskies started it". There are people on both sides, living and diying. Why? Because there are bastards on both sides.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;46960644]If we to accept that person had his own motives to do such, whatever reasons he had, a hatred or a misplaced sence of vengeance, it's sad to see reqruits who are hardly relevant to his life suffer for mistakes of others. It's also sad that while everybody is busy overlooking rebels for their faults in this conflict, sins of ukranian military are just ignored competely. Because anything that shows that they have their fair share of responsibility for whole this mess is immidiatly dubbed "propaganda" or dismissed with notion "it's ok cause ruskies started it". There are people on both sides, living and diying. Why? Because there are bastards on both sides.[/QUOTE] Damn those Ukranian bastards for fighting back.

[QUOTE=pkhzor;46960915]Damn those Ukranian bastards for fighting back.[/QUOTE] how about, damn the ukranian goverment who sent military to deal with yet peaceful protesters at first without even considering settling down without force. well? How we try to remember that? Oh, right "Still, Ruskies Started it, All Ukranians were 100% supporting new goverment", and those who didn't are traitors and have no right for voicing their opinions, cus european way it is! lets ban entire communist party! lets throw people in trashcans, lets attack foreign goverment embassy, lets do all the shit we will be forgiven cause "Ruskies Started it". My goverment is shit, but it makes me a bit sick understanding how easily some people prefer to go "Us good, them bad" without even thinking about what they doing, elsewhere, in soo much [I]more [/I]civilized world.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;46961225]how about, damn the ukranian goverment who sent military to deal with yet peaceful protesters at first without even considering settling down without force. well? How we try to remember that? Oh, right "Still, Ruskies Started it, All Ukranians were 100% supporting new goverment", and those who didn't are traitors and have no right for voicing their opinions, cus european way it is! lets ban entire communist party! lets throw people in trashcans, lets attack foreign goverment embassy, lets do all the shit we will be forgiven cause "Ruskies Started it". My goverment is shit, but it makes me a bit sick understanding how easily some people prefer to go "Us good, them bad" without even thinking about what they doing, elsewhere, in soo much [I]more [/I]civilized world.[/QUOTE] I think for most people they see the seizure of foreign lands in an imperialist landgrab and go "Oh, well, they're definitely not good at least".

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46961256]I think for most people they see the seizure of foreign lands in an imperialist landgrab and go "Oh, well, they're definitely not good at least".[/QUOTE] the problem is, if new ukranian goverment was not such a shitfest wanna bees, everything could've been avoided. If they'd confront east protests with media coverage that would not dub everyone traitors to revolution, but rather play a card of "We are willing to hear and to cooperate", there would not even be a escalating conflict in a first place. Who were folks at dawn of donbass unrest? Old guys with rifles, miners, citizens of ukraine. Why was one citizen negleted in favor of other? Kiev would have a self centred power, Russia still would get sanctioned for Crimea, but no ongoing conflict would be.

Don't start this discussion again, guys. It can last forever without any explicit outcome.

its already started biased side(s) arguing don't end well in trying to win an argument on whats justified even though the article was about an old man who literally bombed a soldier with a jar of honey to the face and now its being compared to ISIS justification reasoning and for the agenda of sympathizing for the rebels

[QUOTE=SonicHitman;46961424]its already started biased side(s) arguing don't end well in trying to win an argument[/QUOTE] Nah, i'll back out, antian is right, and this might only get derailed further. Sad for the passed and injured in incident.

[QUOTE=freakadella;46959047]Yes it does, you will have no trouble finding articles of numerous incidents where the Ukraine Air Force has targeted civilians with no strategic target anywhere close.[/QUOTE] In the early stages of civil war, Ukrainian army was so demoralized & confused that most of them defect or surrender as soon as they arrive to rebel-controlled areas, so the operations was mainly bombing any suspicious places with artillery & aircraft. Now the boots on the ground are highly commited "territorial defense" battalions with both local & foreign aid, although bombings still continue on a [I]slightly[/I] lesser scale.

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