[QUOTE=redsoxrock;45254708]Your defending the rights of a corporation over that of its workers.[/QUOTE]
No I'm not. This is the right of the owners and their freedom of religion. If the workers don't like it, they also have the freedom to leave.
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254651]But the women who don't agree with this ruling can leave the company. Unlike blacks in the 1900s who could not escape segregation.
EDIT:
I don't see anyone rating me dumb making any arguments, care to explain?[/QUOTE]
I dunno if you've been outside in a while but it's really hard to get a job these days, and not everyone has the financial security of a middle class white guy. For some people it's either that or homelessness.
[editline]30th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254734]No I'm not. This is the right of the owners and their freedom of religion. If the workers don't like it, they also have the freedom to leave.[/QUOTE]
No they don't lmao
[editline]30th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lightran;45254713]They are a business, run by people who have the same rights as you and I. What you are promoting is corporations taking it up the ass by the government. I disagree with this with Hobby Lobby's decision because I believe we need more abortions, but they are within their right to deny contraceptive coverage for those who do not require it. Should I be granted protein shake coverage after a day at the gym?[/QUOTE]
Some people do require it, though, and this affects those people as well. I feel like your disagreement stems from a weird hate of people who have a lot of sex tbh
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254734]No I'm not. This is the right of the owners and their freedom of religion. If the workers don't like it, they also have the freedom to leave.[/QUOTE]
The owner is not the company. The owner is a person, the company is not.
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254651]But the women who don't agree with this ruling can leave the company. Unlike blacks in the 1900s who could not escape segregation.
EDIT:
I don't see anyone rating me dumb making any arguments, care to explain?[/QUOTE]
you litterally posted, if our workers don't like our company's religious beliefs they can find a job elsewhere, thats not so easy as it sounds
[QUOTE=Lightran;45254647]Doctors will always find loops around rulings like this. Women with legitimate health issues that require certain contraceptives will not be affected. The only ones who lost this battle were left wing authoritarians and loose Lucy sluts.[/QUOTE]
you seem to have an honorable view of women
what were to happen though if say a christian company like hobby lobby was suddenly under control of say some muslim multi-national, how does one determine the belief of a company then?
[QUOTE=Sableye;45254771]what were to happen though if say a christian company like hobby lobby was suddenly under control of say some muslim multi-national, how does one determine the belief of a company then?[/QUOTE]
You saw how mad people got when a few Subways in the UK stopped using pork because they were in mainly Muslim neighborhoods, people really are only in support of "religious freedom" like that when it's their own religion
[editline]30th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Atlascore;45254780]I don't know what alternate reality you live in but here in the real world white guys don't have a magical financial stability bubble, nor do they have free jobs handed to them.[/QUOTE]
Did I say that? No. But it's measurably easier for a white dude to get a job than literally anyone else.
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254734]No I'm not. This is the right of the owners and their freedom of religion. If the workers don't like it, they also have the freedom to leave.[/QUOTE]
it isn't freedom of religion if it's effecting the people that work for the company.
also keep in mind some people might NEED that job to survive, they can't just leave at any time they want
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254735]
Some people do require it, though, and this affects those people as well. I feel like your disagreement stems from a weird hate of people who have a lot of sex tbh[/QUOTE] Except the ones who require it are NOT being denied it. Did you even read?
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254596]Also note how this only applies to contraceptive methods that could cause (in the opinion of the leadership of Hobby Lobby) an abortion. Those options were only 4 types of types of contraceptives that would have to be supplied, [b]the other 16 were not objected to.[/b][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=redsoxrock;45254708]Your defending the rights of a corporation over that of its workers.[/QUOTE]
Er, no, not really. The workers have every right to pursue abortion drugs or contraceptives as they desire. But they don't have a right to force their company to pay for it (through insurance) if it conflicts with the religious beliefs of the owners of the company.
I don't think anyone should be forced to support, especially financially, things that deeply conflict with their own religious beliefs, and in this country that's a right repeatedly upheld by the Supreme Court. That right applies to all people, workers and business owners alike.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254735]I dunno if you've been outside in a while but it's really hard to get a job these days, and not everyone has the financial security of a middle class white guy. For some people it's either that or homelessness.
[/quote]
Well if their only reason for not finding a new job is that it is hard then that isn't a good enough reason
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254735]
No they don't lmao
[/quote]
Last time I checked no one was enslaving people to work in their retail stores.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254735]
Some people do require it, though, and this affects those people as well. I feel like your disagreement stems from a weird hate of people who have a lot of sex tbh[/QUOTE]
There are 16 other contraceptives that don't kill the fetus that they could use. Birth control is covered under the plan anyway. So the medical use isn't even applicable because you can still buy forms of birth control that change periods.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254785]You saw how mad people got when a few Subways in the UK stopped using pork because they were in mainly Muslim neighborhoods, people really are only in support of "religious freedom" like that when it's their own religion
[editline]30th June 2014[/editline]
Did I say that? No. But it's measurably easier for a white dude to get a job than literally anyone else.[/QUOTE]
ya but this leaves no meteric to determine a corporation's religious beliefs other than the leadership saying "yep its ____" corporations can't talk (well they have the right to) how can we determine its faith in a non-arbitrary way then? what about publicly traded companies, does this mean the company's religion is determined by the largest shareholder or the CEO in charge.
this just opens up too many cans of shit to be good, they could have ruled that the ACA just can't force companies to buy contraception, but they didn't
If contraceptives are considered a health necessity, the companies should be obliged to proved insurance that does cover it. If contraceptives are not considered a health necessity, the companies should not be obliged to proved insurance that covers it. I don't care what your religion is, the health of your employees is more important, and religion is no excuse to jeopardize that.
[QUOTE=redsoxrock;45254755]The owner is not the company. The owner is a person, the company is not.[/QUOTE]
Ok and it is a privately held company which is controlled by a family who is allowed to do business how they want. That is their freedom.
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254817]Well if their only reason for not finding a new job is that it is hard then that isn't a good enough reason
Last time I checked no one was enslaving people to work in their retail stores.
There are 16 other contraceptives that don't kill the fetus that they could use. Birth control is covered under the plan anyway. So the medical use isn't even applicable because you can still buy forms of birth control that change periods.[/QUOTE]
You really don't understand that it's almost impossible to find a job in some places and people have to take what they can get
some people don't have the financial stability to not have a job for a while while they're looking for another one.
[editline]30th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254833]Ok and it is a privately held company which is allowed to do business how they want. That is their freedom.[/QUOTE]
Not when their "Religious freedom" directly affects the health and freedoms of others
see: literally every case about desegregation where the defendant used freedom of religion
you should have learned in a basic government class that this goes against one of the biggest precedents in the Supreme Court's history
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254839]You really don't understand that it's almost impossible to find a job in some places and people have to take what they can get
some people don't have the financial stability to not have a job for a while while they're looking for another one.[/QUOTE]
Ok do I need to remind you that this isn't an issue concerning the ruling?
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254839]You really don't understand that it's almost impossible to find a job in some places and people have to take what they can get
some people don't have the financial stability to not have a job for a while while they're looking for another one.
[editline]30th June 2014[/editline]
Not when their "Religious freedom" directly affects the health and freedoms of others
see: literally every case about desegregation where the defendant used freedom of religion[/QUOTE]
Most people who say it's impossible to find a job are simply not looking hard enough, or think they're worth more than working at a retail store. This is a service industry economy, places like Hobby Lobby are plentiful and constantly hiring.
And once again, no one's health is in jeopardy here, the contraceptives that don't cause abortions are still covered. At this point you are just whining about how people can't get everything for free. You want the government to take care of you like a child or something?
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254875]Ok do I need to remind you that this isn't an issue concerning the ruling?[/QUOTE]
your argument is that the ruling is okay because people can just "get another job" if they don't like it
which isn't true
so it's an issue concerning your argument
[QUOTE=toaster468;45254875]Ok do I need to remind you that this isn't an issue concerning the ruling?[/QUOTE]
If leaving one's job is irrelevant to the ruling, you(? might have been someone else) shouldn't have brought it up as an argument.
[QUOTE=Lightran;45254889]Most people who say it's impossible to find a job are simply not looking hard enough, or think they're worth more than working at a retail store. This is a service industry economy, places like Hobby Lobby are plentiful and constantly hiring.
And once again, no one's health is in jeopardy here, the contraceptives that don't cause abortions are still covered. At this point you are just whining about how people can't get everything for free. You want the government to take care of you like a child or something?[/QUOTE]
nah tbh i just care about women
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254901]nah tbh i just care about women[/QUOTE]
Too much, it seems. Did your father ever tell you that too much emotion is a turnoff for women? Or was he not in the picture? Once again you are being a true liberal by attempting to inflict emotional vampirism on people with self respect. Justice prevailed today, you degenerate.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming/Shitposting" - Megafan))[/highlight]
The pill costs like 5$ a month. And by law if you're poor the health dpt provides it to you for free...
So what's the (non) issue again?
[QUOTE=Lightran;45254922]Too much, it seems. Did your father ever tell you that too much emotion is a turnoff for women? Or was he not in the picture? Once again you are being a true liberal by attempting to inflict emotional vampirism on people with self respect. Justice prevailed today, you degenerate.[/QUOTE]
Maybe stop the ad hominem? It's a bit overwhelming.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254901]nah tbh i just care about women[/QUOTE]
Nice job trying to paint me as a misogynist. You do know there are women celebrating this ruling right? This isn't a ruling that will cause women to die. You might not have realized that when I destroyed your original point saying that this could be bad for women who need birth control to deal with their periods. Women still have the freedom to go out and buy "morning after pills".
[QUOTE=Lightran;45254922]Too much, it seems. Did your father ever tell you that too much emotion is a turnoff for women? Or was he not in the picture? Once again you are being a true liberal by attempting to inflict emotional vampirism on people with self respect. Justice prevailed today, you degenerate.[/QUOTE]
ahahahah oh fuck
"degenerate"? yeah just go back to /pol/ im sorry that people caring about the health and safety of others is such a fucked up concept to you
you realize most people start to ignore you when you use a side of a political spectrum as an insult
[QUOTE=H8Entitlement;45254942]The pill costs like 5$ a month. And by law if you're poor the health dpt provides it to you for free...
So what's the (non) issue again?[/QUOTE]
Depends on the type. There's easily a dozen different formulations and not all pills are created equally. Not to mention, not everyone can take the same ones. As an example, some women can't take estrogen based ones which tend to be $9 at walmart, so an alternative pil for them might be the progesterone only ones which run closer to $45.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;45254946]Maybe stop the ad hominem? It's a bit overwhelming.[/QUOTE]
I've already proved his argument to be nothing but pointless whining, what else is there to do?
[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;45255010]Depends on the type. There's easily a dozen different formulations and not all pills are created equally. Not to mention, not everyone can take the same ones. As an example, some women can't take estrogen based ones which tend to be $9 at walmart, so an alternative pil for them might be the progesterone only ones which run closer to $45.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you read my argument explaining this?
[QUOTE=Lightran;45255016]I've already proved his argument to be nothing but pointless whining, what else is there to do?[/QUOTE]
Leave? If you think that you've won, and the only other thing you can contribute is your own pointless gloating, then, you know, bugger off.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;45254981]ahahahah oh fuck
"degenerate"? yeah just go back to /pol/ im sorry that people caring about the health and safety of others is such a fucked up concept to you
you realize most people start to ignore you when you use a side of a political spectrum as an insult[/QUOTE]
Haha, /pol/? You see an emotionally stunted stormfag anywhere? There is no one who's health and safety is in trouble here, once again you are avoiding the point and just getting upset.
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