Study Suggests: Hollywood Revenue down due to closure of Megaupload
148 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623832]What are you talking about now?
Listen
A cinema makes money by charging people for a service; that service being the entertainment of watching a film. In the same way that a circus charges for the entertainment of the show or a builder charges for the service of fixing your house.
By downloading a film you enjoy that service of watching a film but without paying. Therefore, you're stealing the revenue that the cinema and filmmakers would have received. In the same way that not paying your builder is stealing the money they would have recieved for their time and work.[/QUOTE]
So
by pirating
The thing I steal isn't the thing I download
but the theoretical money the said downloaded copy would have given the owner? About right?
[QUOTE=Nitro836;38623852]So
by pirating
The thing I steal isn't the thing I download
but the theoretical money the said downloaded copy would have given the owner? About right?[/QUOTE]
Exactly
I mean why do you pay for any digital data; software, music, games? For an experience. That's what films are; experiences. It's what you pay for.
I don't understand what's difficult to grasp about that
If you're a director, you'd rather have a highly regarded film than one that makes big bucks, unless you're Michael Bay.
If you're a movie company, you'd rather make twice the money you put into the film regardless of the reviews or the actual experience of the film.
Look at Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, THE ONLY REASON that film is a success now is because of word of mouth. If a movie like that would have been made now, nobody would talk about it, it would be lost.
[QUOTE=Killuah;38623848]The study suggests that the "lost sale" is actually 1/part-th of a sure sale.[/QUOTE]
it shouldn't be factored at all. A lost sale doesn't exist unless they steal a physical copy, or a guy is standing next to the product and convinces you to try the competitor's instead
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623872]That's what films are; experiences. It's what you pay for.[/QUOTE]
So every single movie that YOU experienced, you paid for out of your own pocket. I believe you.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623872]Exactly
I mean why do you pay for any digital data; software, music, games? For an experience. That's what films are; experiences. It's what you pay for.
I don't understand what's difficult to grasp about that[/QUOTE]
What do you think about try before you buy?
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;38623897]What do you think about try before you buy?[/QUOTE]
Its fine if you are going to buy whatever you tried if you actually liked it.
[QUOTE=AK'z;38623878]If you're a director, you'd rather have a highly regarded film than one that makes big bucks, unless you're Michael Bay.
If you're a movie company, you'd rather make twice the money you put into the film regardless of the reviews or the actual experience of the film.
Look at Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, THE ONLY REASON that film is a success now is because of word of mouth. If a movie like that would have been made now, nobody would talk about it, it would be lost.[/QUOTE]
Yes but films take a lot of money to make
I mean many movies can cost into the hundreds of millions to make, and they need to make at least twice that much in order to be able to finance the next film.
I'm not staunchly against piracy, not by a long shot. My only argument is that the 'it's not stealing because the original object is in tact' is not a valid argument and not a valid way to justify piracy
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623731]No you don't understand.
It's still stealing. Whether or not the actual is being 'duplicated not removed' is irrelevant. You're stealing the experience of watching the film, which is what you get charged for when you go to the cinema or buy a DVD. It's about the [B]service[/B] you receive from the DVD, not the physical plastic disc itself.
If you sneak in to the cinema without paying, you're stealing. If you download a movie without paying, you're stealing.[/QUOTE]
This would've been a better post if you used the actual definition of steal rather than just repeated "it's stealing" in various ways like a parrot.
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;38623897]What do you think about try before you buy?[/QUOTE]
Please note that I'm not arguing in any way against the article or trying to say that trying a product before buying it is a bad thing
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623923]Please note that I'm not arguing in any way against the article or trying to say that trying a product before buying it is a bad thing[/QUOTE]
You actually are, since experiencing something without paying for it is, in your words, stealing.
AAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNDDDDDD
Dead end.
[QUOTE=Paramud;38623925]You actually are, since experiencing something without paying for it is, in your words, stealing.[/QUOTE]
I drove past a TV store playing a movie, I stole some experience.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623775]What sort of justification is that?
'It's Walmart's fault for letting me carry that TV out without paying for it'[/QUOTE]
So, if my friend buys a DVD, and I watch it at his house, or mine, but I never paid for it
What is that? I clearly don't meet your criteria of having paid for the experience.
[QUOTE=Paramud;38623925]You actually are, since experiencing something without paying for it is, in your words, stealing.[/QUOTE]
I was arguing against the use of the excuse 'it's not stealing because nothing was physically stolen'. [B]It wasn't my intention[/B] to demonise all forms of piracy
It seems that stealing can be beneficial to the industry. Note that I never said anything about stealing being morally wrong.
Yay? Won't really do much except make the smaller companies mad at the big companies for doing shit that will only affect the smaller movies.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623923]Please note that I'm not arguing in any way against the article or trying to say that trying a product before buying it is a bad thing[/QUOTE]
The thing is, to just call it outright and full on stealing in the very heart of the word is outdated to say the least.
It's not conventional theft because no one is deprived of an experience, and other reasons that have been delved into here. Sure, we can define it as theft, but we also have to start moving beyond antiquated terms and thoughts because things aren't that simple anymore. Once something is near infinite or infinite, laws pertaining to finite things break at a certain point in their application.
I understand why you're calling it theft and your argument and I'm sure you understand the concept we all have to move beyond things that are less than relevant now
[QUOTE=Paramud;38623925]You actually are, since experiencing something without paying for it is, in your words, stealing.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly why I don't think movie piracy is a 'real crime'. There are just too many legal loopholes that would accomplish the exact same thing. Pirating a movie to watch it doesn't feel any more illegal than driving to a friends house and watching it there or borrowing the physical copy. No profit would be lost from your actions either way but it would have been perfectly legal.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;38623949]So, if my friend buys a DVD, and I watch it at his house, or mine, but I never paid for it
What is that? I clearly don't meet your criteria of having paid for the experience.[/QUOTE]
We have to draw lines here otherwise it becomes ridiculous. While DVDs do say that it's illegal to loan or rent the DVD to somebody, you can't expect anybody to follow that.
Buying a DVD and sharing it with a few people can't really be considered stealing. Sharing that DVD with hundreds of thousands is facilitating stealing though; it's a huge profit loss.
Burning a copy of that DVD for a friend is another story, because with DVDs and unlike with cinemas, what you're paying for is the ability to view it whenever you want; hence a DVD costing much more than a cinema ticket.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623968]hence a DVD costing much more than a cinema ticket.[/QUOTE]
some cinemas I've been to costed upwards of £8 - £13 so no.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;38623966]The thing is, to just call it outright and full on stealing in the very heart of the word is outdated to say the least.
It's not conventional theft because no one is deprived of an experience, and other reasons that have been delved into here. Sure, we can define it as theft, but we also have to start moving beyond antiquated terms and thoughts because things aren't that simple anymore. Once something is near infinite or infinite, laws pertaining to finite things break at a certain point in their application.
I understand why you're calling it theft and your argument and I'm sure you understand the concept we all have to move beyond things that are less than relevant now[/QUOTE]
That's why I was discussing it in terms of a service and not a product, in the same way that stealing the service of a builder is still theft
I know it's an antiquated way of seeing it but if we think about it in terms of a potential profit made from the consumer it's a lot easier to discuss
also you can't sneak into imax so the arguement on the previous page is now invalid.
[QUOTE=AK'z;38623973]some cinemas I've been to costed upwards of £8 - £13 so no.[/QUOTE]
Here a movie ticket is about $12 and a DVD normally about $25
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=AK'z;38623976]also you can't sneak into imax so the arguement on the previous page is now invalid.[/QUOTE]
please explain
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623975]That's why I was discussing it in terms of a service and not a product, in the same way that stealing the service of a builder is still theft
I know it's an antiquated way of seeing it but if we think about it in terms of a potential profit made from the consumer it's a lot easier to discuss[/QUOTE]
The thing is, we're discussing morals, you're discussing "MONEY MAKING TACTICS" which nobody really gives a damn.
You want to know the profits for Warner and Fox?
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623975]That's why I was discussing it in terms of a service and not a product, in the same way that stealing the service of a builder is still theft
I know it's an antiquated way of seeing it but if we think about it in terms of a potential profit made from the consumer it's a lot easier to discuss[/QUOTE]
No it's not
It's in fact a lot harder because there's so much leeway in "potential profit", what you consider potential profit, what you consider a loss, what you attribute those losses too. There's not a lot to determine what's what beyond what you say is what
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623978]Here a movie ticket is about $12 and a DVD normally about $25
[/QUOTE]
I saw Titanic 3D for free (friend had an extra ticket) but a ticket costed £14 at the cinema, fantastic seating though... probably the best cinema I've been to.
The DVD would cost about £3.. and we're not talking about ebay either, which you'll also start moaning about.
[QUOTE=AK'z;38623973]some cinemas I've been to costed upwards of £8 - £13 so no.[/QUOTE]
Once you get drinks and popcorn (it's a movie, who doesn't) it easily reaches the cost of a movie. Unless you see the first showing and get a discount, over here tickets cost about $10.50, after drinks and popcorn it's easily $18-$20, when DVD's only cost $20.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623978]Here a movie ticket is about $12 and a DVD normally about $25
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
please explain[/QUOTE]
Imax theatres are usually in a place that there is no outside access too, and in my experience, usually have attendants around at nearly all times if not all times in one way or the other.
this isn't an experience that can be stolen by downloading at home either
[QUOTE=AK'z;38624004]I saw Titanic 3D for free (friend had an extra ticket) but a ticket costed £14 at the cinema, fantastic seating though... probably the best cinema I've been to.
The DVD would cost about £3.. and we're not talking about ebay either, which you'll also start moaning about.[/QUOTE]
sorry I wasn't aware I was moaning
why would I moan about it not being from ebay?
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623978]
please explain[/QUOTE]
Imax is objectively the greatest way you can experience a film. :-)
"Experiencing it on blu-ray or a crap transcode found on piratebay" doesn't compare and those people would agree.
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