Study Suggests: Hollywood Revenue down due to closure of Megaupload
148 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38626553]Here's one of the problems I have with people who believe piracy is totally justified. You have this "need" for the content you are taking, it shouldn't be a need, it is a want. You really feel so entitled to some content that you can say you "need" it?[/QUOTE]
Wow so your argument is that I used the wrong word? Way to be anal about it. I know full well it's a want. Problem is I can't buy most of the stuff I want anywhere. Netflix isn't available, old movie DVDs aren't available, amine isn't available, most new movies become available after I've already watched it. If they made their content available to me in a way that isn't piracy, I'd pay for it. It's not like I don't have the money, but if I didn't, it's not like anyone's loosing anything if I make a copy. Take steam for example - I haven't pirated games in quite a while. Movies/music aren't products, there services. If I can't get the services I want in a "clean" legit way, but can get them free in minutes over torrents, that's what I'm going to do.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38626538]not pay for [B]the product[/B].[/QUOTE]
again, you just missed the point of my post.
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;38626512]Well you could argue that the license is the actual product they sell.[/QUOTE]
Okay here is where we get somewhere.
In a good world, we will able to buy a license to see the highest quality version of the film, any time we want and anywhere.
You see this will never be sold to anyone otherwise you'll be seeing cinema quality on every street corner. Wait 30 years and that is exactly what will happen.
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
I reckon digital video will develop to the point where you will get an "exact" copy of the film resolution that was shot. Now that will be glorious.
[QUOTE=DeadKiller987;38626863]Wow so your argument is that I used the wrong word? Way to be anal about it. I know full well it's a want. Problem is I can't buy most of the stuff I want anywhere. Netflix isn't available, old movie DVDs aren't available, amine isn't available, most new movies become available after I've already watched it. If they made their content available to me in a way that isn't piracy, I'd pay for it. It's not like I don't have the money, but if I didn't, it's not like anyone's loosing anything if I make a copy. Take steam for example - I haven't pirated games in quite a while. Movies/music aren't products, there services. If I can't get the services I want in a "clean" legit way, but can get them free in minutes over torrents, that's what I'm going to do.[/QUOTE]
The whole want/ need thing isn't my actual argument. It's just something I've noticed a lot of piracy advocates say when talking about luxuries like media in some weird attempt to justify it. If the content literally isn't available (such as import content like anime and the likes) in your country, I'm much less against it. Because it does serve a real purpose there, and with some luck the publishers may see the numbers and consider releasing in your region. But for things like feature films that are available in stores/ cinemas/ online distribution it is pretty inexcusable. If you don't have the money for a DVD (which are incredibly cheap today), you have more important things to worry about.
It would help if the publishers realised that a lot of piracy in some areas is due to them not making it available, but I can't see it happening any time soon really, what with the money they can roll in from more profitable regions.
[QUOTE=Killuah;38623641]So in the end the FBI hurt smaller, creative studios while keeping the big ones in position.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that what the blockbuster-producing companies want? Less competition?
just noticed this
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623914]
I mean many movies can cost into the hundreds of millions to make, and they need to make at least twice that much in order to be able to finance the next film.
[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but blockbusters don't account for 100% of the industry. In my honest opinion, it shouldn't really be an "industry".
[QUOTE=hexpunK;38627109]But for things like feature films that are available in stores/ cinemas/ online distribution it is pretty inexcusable. If you don't have the money for a DVD (which are incredibly cheap today), you have more important things to worry about.[/QUOTE]
It's not that people can't afford the product/service, it's that it's not worth the money for it, where I am I could go go-karting for nearly an hour for roughly the same price as a movie ticket, popcorn and a drink, but when all I've got is about £20 to spend on luxuries these are both retarded purchases and I'd be better off going to the pub, but when I can get something about as good as the cinema tickets for free in the comfort of my own home with basically no effort, well, why wouldn't I?
It's a generally superior service for free. If I really like what I watched I can get the boxset or collector's edition or a t-shirt or something when I'm sure it's something worth supporting the creators of.
[QUOTE=koeniginator;38627142]Isn't that what the blockbuster-producing companies want? Less competition?[/QUOTE]
That's what makes the whole incident even more fishy.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623731]No you don't understand.
It's still stealing. Whether or not the actual is being 'duplicated not removed' is irrelevant. You're stealing the experience of watching the film, which is what you get charged for when you go to the cinema or buy a DVD. It's about the [B]service[/B] you receive from the DVD, not the physical plastic disc itself.
If you sneak in to the cinema without paying, you're stealing. If you download a movie without paying, you're stealing.[/QUOTE]
Where exactly are you stealing the experience from? Yourself?
[QUOTE=Rents;38627249]It's not that people can't afford the product/service, it's that it's not worth the money for it, where I am I could go go-karting for nearly an hour for roughly the same price as a movie ticket, popcorn and a drink, but when all I've got is about £20 to spend on luxuries these are both retarded purchases and I'd be better off going to the pub, but when I can get something about as good as the cinema tickets for free in the comfort of my own home with basically no effort, well, why wouldn't I?
It's a generally superior service for free. If I really like what I watched I can get the boxset or collector's edition or a t-shirt or something when I'm sure it's something worth supporting the creators of.[/QUOTE]
Again, what mr. Hex said earlier still stands. If you don't have enough money to buy luxury items without going broke, then save your money and find another way to entertain yourself. You want it, sure, but you don't need it.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38627385]Again, what mr. Hex said earlier still stands. If you don't have enough money to buy luxury items without going broke, then save your money and find another way to entertain yourself. You want it, sure, but you don't need it.[/QUOTE]
No thanks.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38627385]find another way to entertain yourself.[/QUOTE]
Could you stoop any lower than that in an arguement..
You could claim that you are buying a license, butttt
I don't see a EULA inside a DVD box
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;38626752]Literally wrong.[/QUOTE]
Look, I can use the dictionary too.
Stealing
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
Theft
the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
Really wish some of you guys would contribute more to the thread, instead of calling people out for using these two words when referring to digital media.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38627441]You could claim that you are buying a license, butttt
I don't see a EULA inside a DVD box[/QUOTE]
EULA's are only for software.
[QUOTE=AK'z;38627412]Could you stoop any lower than that in an arguement..[/QUOTE]
Is my baseless argument any different from being arrogant, claiming that the people that provide you with entertainment don't deserve your money?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38627449]Look, I can use the dictionary too.
Stealing
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
Theft
the act of stealing; the [B]wrongful taking and carrying[/B] [B]away[/B] of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
Really wish some of you guys would contribute more to the thread, instead of calling people out for using these two words when referring to digital media.[/QUOTE]
next time you try to make a point
be sure you aren't accidentally shooting yourself in the foot when you do
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38627449]Look, I can use the dictionary too.
Stealing
to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
Theft
the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
Really wish some of you guys would contribute more to the thread, instead of calling people out for using these two words when referring to digital media.[/QUOTE]
No, I'm gonna bitch at you for using the wrong word until you get it. It's not theft as you're not taking anything, you're not taking the actual IP, you're not paying for the right to use the IP. Completely different things.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38627464]people that provide you[/QUOTE]
The people who made the film, already got paid. So there's your arguement dead and buried.
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
Also whose to say that they made a film for the pure purpose to "entertain". Not all films are "marketed" towards certain people.
Let me get ahead of this argument: royalties?
Unless you are already filthy rich, if you are getting any royalties, it's basically a pittance.
[QUOTE=Killuah;38623641]The guys behind the study:
[IMG]http://polpix.sueddeutsche.com/bild/1.1534034.1354010566/640x360/filesharing-studie-megaupload-wissenschaftler.jpg[/IMG]
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
What's interesting: The effect mainly was on smaller movies, blockbusters were unharmed. So in the end the FBI hurt smaller, creative studios while keeping the big ones in position.[/QUOTE]
i wrote an essay based upon several interesting studies done by several universities on the effects of piracy on the film and music industry a few years back, and this is pretty much just a demonstration of that. as long as piracy exists, it takes money from the bigger film monopolies and distributes it to the lower end smaller people. i would imagine now the smaller companies are suffering the most because of this
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38627385]Again, what mr. Hex said earlier still stands. If you don't have enough money to buy luxury items without going broke, then save your money and find another way to entertain yourself. You want it, sure, but you don't need it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but the thing is, I don't want to do that, I want to see Movie™. One way of getting it makes me pay if I thought Movie™ was any worth my money or not, and the other lets me watch it, and then I can decide if I'd like to support the creators, typically with merchandise sales.
It's two different systems, restricting access to media on the internet is getting increasingly unfeasible, charging people for access just doesn't work the same way it does for cinema seats, VCR tapes and DVDs, companies are going to have to adapt to this change and find other ways of raising revenue or they're going to go under, it's only going to get worse from here on out with more people becoming tech-savvy, computers getting more numerous and connection speeds getting faster.
In my opinion the issue that the movie industry has is not with piracy but how it's becoming easier and a more viable option to pirate a movie and watch it at home instead of paying for the DVD/Theater. Instead of taking advantage of the internet by using it to make watching movies easier (Netflix is a prime example) they are stuck in a rut with their conventional methods of viewing. Instead of trying to beat the competition, in this case piracy, they are stuck trying to stop it with litigation. Make it cheaper and easier to stream big blockbuster movies to your T.V. on release dates, make it feasible to purchase digital copies of these movies on release date. This whole situation is comparable to when VHS tapes were replaced by CDs, the medium for enjoying a movie has changed so change your business accordingly instead of trying to stop innovation.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38627669]i wrote an essay based upon several interesting studies done by several universities on the effects of piracy on the film and music industry a few years back, and this is pretty much just a demonstration of that. as long as piracy exists, it takes money from the bigger film monopolies and distributes it to the lower end smaller people. i would imagine now the smaller companies are suffering the most because of this[/QUOTE]
Other hosting companies sprung in th instant Megaupload was down. The Sockshare-Putlocker conglomerate and so on, there are more and better hosting sites than ever, they don't even limit streaming anymore so I guess the hurt is only for the time of "recovery".
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=reedbo;38627998]In my opinion the issue that the movie industry has is not with piracy but how it's becoming easier and a more viable option to pirate a movie and watch it at home instead of paying for the DVD/Theater. Instead of taking advantage of the internet by using it to make watching movies easier (Netflix is a prime example) they are stuck in a rut with their conventional methods of viewing. Instead of trying to beat the competition, in this case piracy, they are stuck trying to stop it with litigation. Make it cheaper and easier to stream big blockbuster movies to your T.V. on release dates, make it feasible to purchase digital copies of these movies on release date. This whole situation is comparable to when VHS tapes were replaced by CDs, the medium for enjoying a movie has changed so change your business accordingly instead of trying to stop innovation.[/QUOTE]
To be honest I really hate the idea of a "home cinema" where I don't even have to leave the house anymore to get the cinema experience, it's just too close to some Brave New World scenes for my taste.
[QUOTE=Killuah;38628027]Other hosting companies sprung in th instant Megaupload was down. The Sockshare-Putlocker conglomerate and so on, there are more and better hosting sites than ever, they don't even limit streaming anymore so I guess the hurt is only for the time of "recovery".
[editline]28th November 2012[/editline]
To be honest I really hate the idea of a "home cinema" where I don't even have to leave the house anymore to get the cinema experience, it's just too close to some Brave New World scenes for my taste.[/QUOTE]
But you see, that's the glory of the choices! Theaters aren't going anywhere, most theaters make the majority of their money from concessions not the actual price of tickets. You can still go out and watch a movie at the cinema with your friends and you can still get that experience. The issue lies with the movie industry trying to keep this and DVD sales as their main source of income.
So, essentially, the fact that my brain is processing right now is that the entertainment industry, namely hollywood, spent millions of dollars trying to curb piracy only to discover that once one of the largest offenders was taken out of the picture that there was no change in profits at all? And even a decrease in profits for the smaller studios?
Hmmm....
the words money pit, waste, and fruitless all come to mind.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38623731]No you don't understand.
It's still stealing. Whether or not the actual is being 'duplicated not removed' is irrelevant. You're stealing the experience of watching the film.[/QUOTE]
So somewhere in the world, someone lost the experience of watching a film that he paid for and I got it?
Why does this argument get so deep and off-topic.
The people and companies that make the product lose out if you pirate, unless its a blockbuster.
If you give a toss about them, you might pay.
If not, you wont.
The only film that will get any of my money spent on it at the moment, will be the Hobbit films, for sure. Not bothered about anything else, so wont buy it. Wont pirate either. Dont wanna get in trouble, you get me?
[QUOTE=Puni;38629544]Why does this argument get so deep and off-topic.
The people and companies that make the product lose out if you pirate, unless its a blockbuster.[/QUOTE]
See it's funny because the inverse was cited [I]literally[/I] a few posts ago.
[QUOTE=Ray-The-Sun;38629937]See it's funny because the inverse was cited [I]literally[/I] a few posts ago.[/QUOTE]
Except its not causation, its correlation because to properly figure out whether or not you gain sales you'd need an actual number of dollars that was gained.
But all we have is [I] theoretical numbers[/I].
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