What's so wrong with rigid background checks for refugees just like we do for normal migrants? My wife has gone through quite a lot to ensure she's not militant and she came here from Guatemala when she was 11.
this is pretty understandable though.
Imagine you have a pack of M&Ms, but 1/10th of the M&Ms is actually a tiny yet very potent explosive that will detonate in your mouth, blowing your jaw apart and blowing your brains out. Would you be stupid enough to eat a single one of those M&Ms?
[QUOTE=CoixNiro;49138206]this is pretty understandable though.
Imagine you have a pack of M&Ms, but 1/10th of the M&Ms is actually a tiny yet very potent explosive that will detonate in your mouth, blowing your jaw apart and blowing your brains out. Would you be stupid enough to eat a single one of those M&Ms?[/QUOTE]
We should start aborting all white boys, 1 in 10 of them could have a gun and shoot up a school.
This is laughable logic. First, it's more like one in a hundred thousand, and second, it's conflating refugees with terrorists. It's like saying all schoolchildren are potential school shooters, so they should be scanned and guarded just in case. It's like saying that all plane passengers are potential bomb threats, so they need to be strip-searched and cavity-searched and x-ray'd to be safe.
It's an argument to public safety that was used to justify shit like the PATRIOT Act.
The "refugees" that took part in the Paris attacks had forged and stolen passports in the first place. Screenings, just like most migrants, absolutely. Banning them because they share an ethnicity and home country of people who have bombed others? Laughable.
Baker is just posturing, he doesn't really have any say in the matter.
[QUOTE=CoixNiro;49138206]this is pretty understandable though.
Imagine you have a pack of M&Ms, but 1/10th of the M&Ms is actually a tiny yet very potent explosive that will detonate in your mouth, blowing your jaw apart and blowing your brains out. Would you be stupid enough to eat a single one of those M&Ms?[/QUOTE]
did you really just post this lol
[QUOTE=mark6789;49129051]Who cares about propaganda when it comes to protecting citizens lives. I'm all for refusing them until we get proper documentation on them to ensure our safety. Ita not a fool proof plan but at least it's a step[/QUOTE]
why are your lives worth more than theirs?
I'm not sure, is the US vetting process extremely bad? Worst than Europe? If so I would say its better that no refugees should come, and hey why would Syrians go to the United States across the Atlantic ocean. To much trouble to be worth it.
[QUOTE=Toyokunari;49138253]...hey why would Syrians go to the United States across the Atlantic ocean..[/QUOTE]
Because a lot of Europeans hate them and they're getting mortared and raped where they are now.
[QUOTE=elowin;49138245]why are your lives worth more than theirs?[/QUOTE]
Because the safety of his own countrymen should be his government's top priority?
You know, if you don't want to allow refugees, fine. But unless every state (Excluding Hawaii and Alaska) does that, it isn't going to make a bit of difference whether you take them in or not. There are no doors on our states, everyone's free to travel between them without any obstruction
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49138096]Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
lots can change in 100 years[/QUOTE]
Absolutely nothing has changed. This isn't about the people who are "yearning to breathe free", it's about those who would like to choke freedom from the world. The problem is both groups are trying to get in and we need to make sure we're effectively screening out the latter.
[QUOTE=opaali;49137469][URL="http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/16/3722628/no-state-governors-cant-refuse-to-accept-syrian-refugees/"]They can't actually do this [/URL][/QUOTE]
that makes sense, because charlie baker didn't say "i'm going to actually prevent refugees from coming here."
what he did say, is that Massachusetts is not interested in taking refugees. that doesn't mean they won't if they have to, it just says "hey look, we'd rather not be choice #1" which i don't think is the most irrational, i just think it's kind of shitty.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49137623]so the solution is to generalise them all as being "potential ISIS members" and tell them to go somewhere else[/QUOTE]
how the fuck can you generalize a group of people as being [I]potentially[/I] anything? that's basically an oxymoron.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49141002]how the fuck can you generalize a group of people as being [I]potentially[/I] anything? that's basically an oxymoron.[/QUOTE]
generally speaking, humans are potential serial killers, we should go somewhere else.
I like how people can use the poison M&M or jellybean logic to guys and sexual assault and it's fine and dandy but when you do it with refugees suddenly it makes you a knee jerk reactionary.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;49141002]how the fuck can you generalize a group of people as being [I]potentially[/I] anything? that's basically an oxymoron.[/QUOTE]
It seems far more likely that someone coming from the regions where ISIS primarily is based is a member of ISIS than someone coming from someplace else.
Potentially in this context meaning some small subset of those labeled as refugees almost certainly are members of ISIS, thus each refugee is potentially one of that subset.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;49141320]I like how people can use the poison M&M or jellybean logic to guys and sexual assault and it's fine and dandy but when you do it with refugees suddenly it makes you a knee jerk reactionary.[/QUOTE]
People here are happy to say the opposite here when it comes to police - there's "bad apples" but that doesn't mean they're all bad! Refugees? There's a few terrorists in there so we should block them all.
Almost nobody thinks that all men should be treated like rapists, particularly not on this forum.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;49141356]People here are happy to say the opposite here when it comes to police - there's "bad apples" but that doesn't mean they're all bad! Refugees? There's a few terrorists in there so we should block them all.
Almost nobody thinks that all men should be treated like rapists, particularly not on this forum.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you could just be equally cautious and weary of things that have the potential of being bad? Pretty much everything in life could go wrong, and as of right now you have a much greater chance of being in a car accident, slipping and dying in the shower, ect, then you do of a refugee being the cause of your death. OR just get straight up murdered for no reason. Sure there are probably some bad apples in thh refugees but there's so many other fucks in this country more likely to kill you
[QUOTE=Glitchman;49141320]I like how people can use the poison M&M or jellybean logic to guys and sexual assault and it's fine and dandy but when you do it with refugees suddenly it makes you a knee jerk reactionary.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that there have been exactly zero refugees who have entered the united states that were terrorists.
Seriously, the level of kneejerk going around is fucking appalling:
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRUUB7nWUAABSux.jpg[/IMG]
This is the kind of [I]bullshit [/I]that is popping up on my newsfeed. Social media is REALLY fucking with people's ability to make an informed decision, because it's easier to just hit the share button, and if it's been shared enough times suddenly people just accept it as fact or the right side to be on.
It's [I]disgusting.[/I]
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49141325]It seems far more likely that someone coming from the regions where ISIS primarily is based is a member of ISIS than someone coming from someplace else.
Potentially in this context meaning some small subset of those labeled as refugees almost certainly are members of ISIS, thus each refugee is potentially one of that subset.[/QUOTE]
that doesn't get the post I responded to off the hook. you can't generalize any group as being potentially [I]x[/I]. the moment you use the word "potentially" is the moment you acknowledge that there is a chance they are not [I]x[/I], and thereby you are doing the complete opposite of generalizing.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;49141356]People here are happy to say the opposite here when it comes to police - there's "bad apples" but that doesn't mean they're all bad! Refugees? There's a few terrorists in there so we should block them all.[/quote]
Dismantling the police force would result in a situation which is far worse than not doing so. The impact (on the citizens of the country) of accepting refugees or not is far more debatable.
[quote]Almost nobody thinks that all men should be treated like rapists, particularly not on this forum.[/QUOTE]
Certainly. However, if a large number of men coming from a country where there was a large rape "movement" whose goal was to rape everyone in the world, would it not be prudent to closely scrutinize each of those individuals?
Further, would it not be understandable that some might not find the risk of the screening process failing too high regardless and want to reject everyone?
[QUOTE=jamzzster;49128850]Irrelevant? That is awful to say about these people who have lost their homes and are escaping from the terror day in day out. They're more than welcome here in my opinion, you can keep yours. What we need is more checks and continuous intelligence of those entering. They're just as afraid of ISIS as we are.[/QUOTE]
Then why not work to stop the /very/ reason why they're leaving and becoming refugees in the first place? If everyone is so afraid of ISIS, why not do much to stop them?
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49129377]My Syrian neighbors lost the house they just built in Syria to the war, they're trying to get my family to convince our congressman to accept their family (who are Christian) into this country so they do not have to die at the hands of those assholes. I feel like the people denying refugees do not see the big picture.[/QUOTE]
Funny part is that US and many western countries played a big role in starting the fighting in Syria. And now they refuse to clean up the mess they have made.
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=doombman;49142971]Then why not work to stop the /very/ reason why they're leaving and becoming refugees in the first place? If everyone is so afraid of ISIS, why not do much to stop them?[/QUOTE]
They wanted Syria to be like this, they made ISIS become who they are right now.
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