Tim Cook: Highest Android switch that we’ve ever measured - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Levelog;48297931]They really don't though? Unless you like plastic piles of shit that rarely get updated and have the worst custom skin.[/QUOTE] Samsung is highly regarded though? When I was getting my android everyone and anyone told me to go with Samsung and the Galaxy S5 or S6. I asked around quite a bit and no one ever mentioned any other phone besides an iPhone. So I got the S5 and it's a laggy P.O.S with bloatware that you have to root to fully remove and have actual full control over your device. Maybe if Android worked like iOS and refused to let carriers to have full control over the device then rooting would be easier, and there'd be no carrier bloatware that bogs the phone down, but that's not the case.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;48298381]The difference between a Samsung Android phone and an Acer shitbox running Windows is that the Acer shitbox is not regarded as the best for Windows. Before I got my phone, the guy selling it and the FP Android thread and all of my friends said that Samsung was the best pick. I feel that I spent $600 on the best that Android has to offer and I don't want to spend another $600 to give it another chance when I could just get an iPhone and know that I won't have to deal with bugs and lag.[/QUOTE] Well it isn't, and hasn't been for a long time.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;48297225]iOS essentially has right clicking via "press and hold," takes about 2 seconds or less to have a little popup show up for copy/paste/translate/etc. most other modern phones have the same functionality. styluses are niche because gesture-based operating systems are a million times more intuitive and useful than having a clunky stylus hit excessively small buttons - there's a reason they've mostly been pushed out of the market, and it's 90% because touch screens are good enough to not even require styluses anymore. sure, you give up quality painting for that, but you make usability and intuitiveness skyrocket in comparison. everything else about modern smartphones has far, FAR surpassed older dumbphones or early smartphones. the one valid complaint you've had is that painting is more difficult without pressure-sensitive touchscreens - but guess what, modern touchscreens make [I]everything else[/I] feel easy as sin. Trying to type on an old-style pressure-sensitive screen was hellishly difficult and hit-or-miss almost always - now it's incredibly easy. Fuck painting if it means I can type as fast as I can type on a keyboard with my touchscreen. Most of your complaints are personal niches. Physical buttons on something the size of a phone is dramatically inferior to modern touchscreen texting. There's a lot of things that just don't make sense that you're complaining about. HDMI out? Just fucking stream it with a chromecast or any other million of equivalents. HDMI plugs would take up a good 10% of the size of a phone and add another crevice for dirt and dust to enter and another hole for water to damage the phone. That's the most nitpicky thing anyone could want. User-customizable themes? Are you forgetting how awful most of those were? I prefer the level of customizability in my fucking iPhone in comparison to those old-style early smartphones. You're looking through nostalgia-goggles at technology that is entirely obsolete and "features" that are archaic and have been long beaten. I guarantee that every single stereo speaker on an old smartphone is completely inferior to the mono speakers on almost every single iPhone or other modern smartphone. The sound on old phones was fucking terrible. Seriously, none of your complaints (besides maybe painting or removable batteries or something) have any merit - it's just your own personal preferences that most other people don't care about and most designers would absolutely hate to incorporate. if you want a phone like that, buy an old smartphone, because according to the market [I]nobody else wants a phone like that[/I]. Stylus phones don't sell well in the first place - why would anyone ever willingly choose to move from the smoothness of a capacitive touch screen to the horrible unusability of the old resistance touchscreens?[/QUOTE] I said earlier that most of those things are niche. But that's what a smartphone used to be, a niche device. HDMI getting cut? Well okay, if I want to turn my phone into a mini snes I can still use a 3.5 to scart (seriously fuck streaming media over wireless when you have a bad connection while travelling), but when full qwerty keyboards get cut because the larger market doesnt buy them then clearly manufacturers have stopped caring for what a smartphone used to be made for, and it wasnt the large fucking market. But even disregarding all of that, can you honestly tell me you're so okay with all phones looking almost exactly the same by design? Can you tell me MeeGo's one handed swipe interface was less close to keyless ui than android just moving them onto the screen? (And it wasnt a bad interface, the MeeGo line was cut before critics even got a hold of the N9, it launched as the first and last of its kind and was universally praised for its ui) Even if manufacturers decided that some features are "too niche" to include in a smartphone, which is a retarded thought in principle, the industry itself needs to freshen up its selection of form factors and interface design.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48298733]clearly manufacturers have stopped caring for what a smartphone used to be made for, and it wasnt the large fucking market.[/QUOTE] Are you serious? It's always been about selling as much to as many as possible. If there is no demand it gets discarded. Modern phones aren't as much about looks as they are about what's inside.

Had an iPhone 3G as my first smartphone, switched to a 4S later on. Then I fell into peer pressure and got an Android, a Samsung Galaxy S3. I loved it, despite it's plastic feel. And now I'm on a Sony Xperia Z2, which is easily the best phone ever. Couldn't be happier with Android. Never going back.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48298733]I said earlier that most of those things are niche. But that's what a smartphone used to be, a niche device. HDMI getting cut? Well okay, if I want to turn my phone into a mini snes I can still use a 3.5 to scart (seriously fuck streaming media over wireless when you have a bad connection while travelling), but when full qwerty keyboards get cut because the larger market doesnt buy them then clearly manufacturers have stopped caring for what a smartphone used to be made for, and it wasnt the large fucking market. But even disregarding all of that, can you honestly tell me you're so okay with all phones looking almost exactly the same by design? Can you tell me MeeGo's one handed swipe interface was less close to keyless ui than android just moving them onto the screen? (And it wasnt a bad interface, the MeeGo line was cut before critics even got a hold of the N9, it launched as the first and last of its kind and was universally praised for its ui) Even if manufacturers decided that some features are "too niche" to include in a smartphone, which is a retarded thought in principle, the industry itself needs to freshen up its selection of form factors and interface design.[/QUOTE] Everything starts off as a niche device. They grew to be a lot more, and people wanted the ability to check the internet on a screen with better resolution and datarates than what was available on the feature phones of the time. The smartphone was a thing long before the iPhone came out. The first I remember drooling over was the n93. And it was definately a niche then, and there was no subsidizing. the iPhone was released to AT&T's market only, while Android was released to Tmobiles market at the get go. But things evolve, and demand increases over time when the market determines these as worthwhile devices that they can afford. In the end, it has went from a niche to an essential device. miniHDMI was defiantly not a big hit. It was one of those side features that a lot of people didnt use. Why? Well who would need that when you can use something like miracast. Which cuts your manufacturing cost and removes the tethering of an HDMI cable.

[QUOTE=Rocko's;48298444]Samsung is highly regarded though? When I was getting my android everyone and anyone told me to go with Samsung and the Galaxy S5 or S6. I asked around quite a bit and no one ever mentioned any other phone besides an iPhone. So I got the S5 and it's a laggy P.O.S with bloatware that you have to root to fully remove and have actual full control over your device. Maybe if Android worked like iOS and refused to let carriers to have full control over the device then rooting would be easier, and there'd be no carrier bloatware that bogs the phone down, but that's not the case.[/QUOTE] Yes and HP is highly regarded by the majority of people. They look nice and aren't too expensive. That doesn't stop the majority of people from being wrong. Samsung has the biggest market share, but far from the best phones. [editline]26th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Richard Simmons;48298832]Everything starts off as a niche device. They grew to be a lot more, and people wanted the ability to check the internet on a screen with better resolution and datarates than what was available on the feature phones of the time. The smartphone was a thing long before the iPhone came out. The first I remember drooling over was the n93. And it was definately a niche then, and there was no subsidizing. the iPhone was released to AT&T's market only, while Android was released to Tmobiles market at the get go. But things evolve, and demand increases over time when the market determines these as worthwhile devices that they can afford. In the end, it has went from a niche to an essential device. miniHDMI was defiantly not a big hit. It was one of those side features that a lot of people didnt use. Why? Well who would need that when you can use something like miracast. Which cuts your manufacturing cost and removes the tethering of an HDMI cable.[/QUOTE] Most phones use Slimport/MHL out of the USB port for video. It wasn't as much phasing out miniHDMI due to it not being popular as it is reducing the amount of unnecessary ports.

[QUOTE=Levelog;48297931]They really don't though? Unless you like plastic piles of shit that rarely get updated and have the worst custom skin.[/QUOTE] I could find much worse than modern touchwiz. posting this from a galaxy s6, and the build quality is more than comparable with the iPhone 6 ( the gold standard for build quality. Undebatable)

[QUOTE=Tasm;48273814]To be fair you buy Android if you want to have the freedom to customize and do whatever with, or you have a tight budget. iPhone is more so if you just want something that works -almost- flawlessly out of the box, streamedlined and very easy to use, albeit a lack of customization.[/QUOTE] It's nost just a lack of customization, it's a lack of basic freedoms that every computer/phone should have, the fact that a developer has to pay a not-very-cheap price to develop for iOS and the fact that you can't distribute shit without using the app store makes it horrible. if iOS was a little bit more open, it would be fine.

[QUOTE=eirexe;48298892]the fact that a developer has to pay a not-very-cheap price to develop for iOS[/QUOTE] That's not true

[QUOTE=wewt!;48298733]I said earlier that most of those things are niche. But that's what a smartphone used to be, a niche device. HDMI getting cut? Well okay, if I want to turn my phone into a mini snes I can still use a 3.5 to scart (seriously fuck streaming media over wireless when you have a bad connection while travelling), but when full qwerty keyboards get cut because the larger market doesnt buy them then clearly manufacturers have stopped caring for what a smartphone used to be made for, and it wasnt the large fucking market. But even disregarding all of that, can you honestly tell me you're so okay with all phones looking almost exactly the same by design? Can you tell me MeeGo's one handed swipe interface was less close to keyless ui than android just moving them onto the screen? (And it wasnt a bad interface, the MeeGo line was cut before critics even got a hold of the N9, it launched as the first and last of its kind and was universally praised for its ui) Even if manufacturers decided that some features are "too niche" to include in a smartphone, which is a retarded thought in principle, the industry itself needs to freshen up its selection of form factors and interface design.[/QUOTE] The thing is, every time manufacturers do this, their sales drop on that specific device. Look at stuff like the Galaxy Note Edge - sales were incredibly disappointing. Sales for stylus phones are consistently lower than any other. The market wants the maximum possible sales, and catering to a niche consumer won't get them there. I hear about people wanting physical qwerty keyboards all the time - yet even phone cases with physical keyboard addons sell poorly and are almost never seen. There's no point to it - they don't sell. Styluses, physical keyboards, all of that don't sell as well. If they sold competitively with stuff like the iPhone, it'd be a reason for the market to more heavily invest in them, but they don't sell well and aren't able to compete in a very competitive market. Look at failures like the Amazon Fire Phone. Or that ubuntu phone. Mass failures to produce a more niche product. The Fire Phone was focused so heavily on having a long battery life because of complaints about modern phones having bad batteries. They had interesting and creative and unique and totally niche dynamic perspective camera. Sold like 12 of them. Niche does not sell. At all. If it did, you'd see niche phones, but people want a do-it-all device, not one that does some things sorta well and focuses too heavily on a gimmick or a specific use.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;48298381]The difference between a Samsung Android phone and an Acer shitbox running Windows is that the Acer shitbox is not regarded as the best for Windows. [B]Before I got my phone, the guy selling it and the FP Android thread and all of my friends said that Samsung was the best pick. [/B] [B]I feel that I spent $600 on the best that Android has to offer [/B]and I don't want to spend another $600 to give it another chance when I could just get an iPhone and know that I won't have to deal with bugs and lag.[/QUOTE] you obviously never actually came in and asked pretty sure no one in android thread lets other users buy a samsung phone

[QUOTE=.Isak.;48299093]The thing is, every time manufacturers do this, their sales drop on that specific device. Look at stuff like the Galaxy Note Edge - sales were incredibly disappointing. Sales for stylus phones are consistently lower than any other. The market wants the maximum possible sales, and catering to a niche consumer won't get them there. I hear about people wanting physical qwerty keyboards all the time - yet even phone cases with physical keyboard addons sell poorly and are almost never seen. There's no point to it - they don't sell. Styluses, physical keyboards, all of that don't sell as well. If they sold competitively with stuff like the iPhone, it'd be a reason for the market to more heavily invest in them, but they don't sell well and aren't able to compete in a very competitive market. Look at failures like the Amazon Fire Phone. Or that ubuntu phone. Mass failures to produce a more niche product. The Fire Phone was focused so heavily on having a long battery life because of complaints about modern phones having bad batteries. They had interesting and creative and unique and totally niche dynamic perspective camera. Sold like 12 of them. Niche does not sell. At all. If it did, you'd see niche phones, but people want a do-it-all device, not one that does some things sorta well and focuses too heavily on a gimmick or a specific use.[/QUOTE] Yes, definitely. You are right on the money. This is why manufacturers dont take risks, there is only a few small ones like Jolla, and they are small for a reason. But when even side slider qwertys are too niche, you know shit is starting to stink.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48299459]Yes, definitely. You are right on the money. This is why manufacturers dont take risks, there is only a few small ones like Jolla, and they are small for a reason. But when even side slider qwertys are too niche, you know shit is starting to stink.[/QUOTE] Why stink? Touch keyboards are getting better and better. Physical keyboards are unnecessary for most except the most hardcore of phone users.

[QUOTE=Levelog;48297931]They really don't though? Unless you like plastic piles of shit that rarely get updated and have the worst custom skin.[/QUOTE] Samsung basically has the best track record on software updates aside from Motorola (and the Nexus devices, obviously).

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48299905]Why stink? Touch keyboards are getting better and better. Physical keyboards are unnecessary for most except the most hardcore of phone users.[/QUOTE] Because thats the least visually eccentric step from a slab I can think of, and theyre afraid of even making that anymore. The industry has stagnated. And a physical keyboard will always be superior until touchscreens can have proper tactile feedback, which isn't a crazy idea as it has been explored in prototypes already, but it certainly isn't on the market yet.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48300919]Because thats the least visually eccentric step from a slab I can think of, and theyre afraid of even making that anymore. The industry has stagnated. And a physical keyboard will always be superior until touchscreens can have proper tactile feedback, which isn't a crazy idea as it has been explored in prototypes already, but it certainly isn't on the market yet.[/QUOTE] Physical might be superior but it's not that much more useful compared to touch one while not having physical one saves on costs. If people found physical keyboards so much more useful surely there'd be demand for them. But there isn't because for most people they simply don't matter that much. No sane person is gona write a novel on a phone.

[QUOTE=wewt!;48299459]Yes, definitely. You are right on the money. This is why manufacturers dont take risks, there is only a few small ones like Jolla, and they are small for a reason. But when even side slider qwertys are too niche, you know shit is starting to stink.[/QUOTE] Sliders become obsolete for the majority because they honest to god suck enormous amounts of shit. A fixed form factor, single configuration input method that requires you to be a spooky skeleton like myself to actually poke the keys precisely if you want to type fast. Should the physical parts break, awesome you now need to purchase parts and possibly services to get it fixed. Touch screen keyboards offer so much more. Totally configurable as long as they report input to the OS correctly, many form factors and input styles are available and it doesn't add any extra part to the device making repairs as simple as reinstalling the OS (and that's the worst case). The current trends in smart phone technology didn't become mainstream for no reason at all.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;48300602]Samsung basically has the best track record on software updates aside from Motorola (and the Nexus devices, obviously).[/QUOTE] Samsung is actually very good with software updates, carriers fuck it up some, and the dirty flash at the end results in very disappointed users. Apple probably saw a spike from the KK->LP update that left me answering a bunch of friends on why their phone is now suddenly terrible at battery life, and in performance. This isn't necessarly a Samsung issue, its an android one. The one thing that really irks the shit out of me about Samsung is on how bloated their crap is. No, not carrier bloat. OEM Bloat. They got all these fucking apps on this crap, and no wonder some devices just run slow as shit. Is there anything we can do about it that doesn't void your warranty? no. Another thing I dont like about samsung is on how their phones are assembled. The S6 is really upsetting me because of its "water resistant" casing. This prohibits you from changing the battery, and it makes it very difficult for anyone with the skill set and tools to do it too. Its one of those things people don't think about very much, til it comes to that point where the batterys capacity took a serious drop off, and barely holds its charge anymore. Now you got to take about an hour tearing the damn thing apart. Then going back through and putting it back together. This is one of the prime reasons why I hated the HTC One (Even though, still one of my most favorite devices).

i could never use the early iphones due to having big hands and the dinky little keys on the iphone IME. Much less of a problem now with stuff like swype though.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;48296917]I definitely enjoy the customization and whatnot with Android, but it isn't worth dealing with tons of bugs, lag, and bloatware. I got a brand new S5 within a month of it coming out, and it was super buggy and laggy from the start. And it got even more buggy and laggy when I upgraded to Lollipop, which was about 8 months after it came out because I had to wait for Samsung + my carrier to make it available. I'm switching to iOS soon.[/QUOTE] Thats Samsung's version of Android. I had the same issues with my S3 until I rooted it.

[QUOTE=Rocko's;48298444]Samsung is highly regarded though? When I was getting my android everyone and anyone told me to go with Samsung and the Galaxy S5 or S6. I asked around quite a bit and no one ever mentioned any other phone besides an iPhone. So I got the S5 and it's a laggy P.O.S with bloatware that you have to root to fully remove and have actual full control over your device. [B]Maybe if Android worked like iOS and refused to let carriers to have full control over the device then rooting would be easier, and there'd be no carrier bloatware that bogs the phone down, but that's not the case.[/B][/QUOTE] Here is the thing, there is only one iPhone. If an Android device manufacturer refuses to let Verizon, for example, put bloat ware on their phone, Verizon can just say "fuck you" and not carry the phone and carry another manufacturer's device.

the thing with apple products is that they're just nice as hell to use I've used many high-end windows laptops as well as macbooks and regardless of specs the macbooks just feel so much more smooth and pleasant to use, since everything software-wise is completely tailored to the hardware and vice versa. Same thing with iphones. a++ user experience

[QUOTE=Eric95;48304583]the thing with apple products is that they're just nice as hell to use I've used many high-end windows laptops as well as macbooks and regardless of specs the macbooks just feel so much more smooth and pleasant to use, since everything software-wise is completely tailored to the hardware and vice versa. Same thing with iphones. a++ user experience[/QUOTE] Well, for the price you pay for them, hell yeah you should get such an experience... All their hardware isn't all that great in comparison to rival's hardware (correct me if I'm wrong), but since everything is optimized and securely locked out of fail, everything works like a clock. Its like someone who only buys tailored suits. If only they were customizable and not as restricted just to other apple devices and... Itunes.... Ugh...

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48301000]Sliders become obsolete for the majority because they honest to god suck enormous amounts of shit. A fixed form factor, single configuration input method that requires you to be a spooky skeleton like myself to actually poke the keys precisely if you want to type fast. Should the physical parts break, awesome you now need to purchase parts and possibly services to get it fixed. Touch screen keyboards offer so much more. Totally configurable as long as they report input to the OS correctly, many form factors and input styles are available and it doesn't add any extra part to the device making repairs as simple as reinstalling the OS (and that's the worst case). The current trends in smart phone technology didn't become mainstream for no reason at all.[/QUOTE] How is a sliders form factor any more fixed than a slabs? Unless you meant the layout, to which I agree. I also agree that a slab is cheaper. I'm not saying they should be the norm, niche form factors sell less, so they make less and charge a bit more. The Nokia N900 was projected to sell 100'000 devices, but it still went to production and actually sold 200'000 devices in its first two weeks of release. And its still in use six years later, you can find articles that showcase the various things people still do with it. There is a market for such devices, it's just not big. And that's okay, not everything has to be the next huge thing.

[QUOTE=Eric95;48304583]the thing with apple products is that they're just nice as hell to use I've used many high-end windows laptops as well as macbooks and regardless of specs the macbooks just feel so much more smooth and pleasant to use, since everything software-wise is completely tailored to the hardware and vice versa. Same thing with iphones. a++ user experience[/QUOTE] Part of that is just Windows though. Even on my relatively lower end ThinkPad Fedora runs just as smooth as OSX does on new Macs.