[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;34385834]If you get scared shitless from a big clumsy pipe so you would take a machine gun and blow the fucker out, I think police job won't suit you.[/QUOTE]
You really don't get it do you? If it was one of those pipes from previous pages (a picture) it could easily injure you for life, and how the fuck is a 9mm pistol a machinegun?
Americuh, why did he get so fucking close and not release the dog ?
To the idiot saying he would have killed the dog: You try swinging a pipe when a fuckign dog is biting your arm to sherds, these american cops are fuckign stupid.
and shot 10 times ? What the fuck, you seriously think that was justified??? you people make me sick.
[video=youtube;22mMXcDJ8L8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mMXcDJ8L8[/video]
Yeah, thats not going to do anything.
[QUOTE=Starship;34385892]You really don't get it do you? If it was one of those pipes from previous pages (a picture) it could easily injure you for life, and how the fuck is a 9mm pistol a machinegun?[/QUOTE]
1) Machine gun reference was a metaphor
2) While he was swinging with that big pipe (also, judging by the picture, it's incredibly heavy, so that makes up for even more clumsiness), the officer who shot him 5 times had clear and full observation of the situation, It wasn't his life he was scared for, so that doesn't justify his panic struggle for his life. Unless he is working for like a week or two, that is highly unprofessional of him. It's a really low trigger discipline and it's not how it is supposed to work.
In the end of the day, the guy was a total prick and retard, but that doesn't justify his death. Doesn't at all.
I can understand they shot him for coming at the officer with a weapon but I'm seriously thinking they need more LTL options before they resort to fucking shooting someone six times in the chest.
[QUOTE=Soda;34385187]yeah the second cop starting to fire is completely justified. you're right fp. kill all crooks.
loving the dog not even being released. yes, this is how police should operate. good takedown.[/QUOTE]
The guy was basically mid-swing with an object that would have probably killed the cop had he managed to get him in the head with it. Given how close he was I don't think the cops were wrong.
The people laughing while filming are scum though
[QUOTE=Retardation;34386113]I love how you guys rate my posts dumb even though they are perfectly valid statements.[/QUOTE]
Rated dumb because of complaining about dumb ratings is dumb.
Posting advice: ratings are intangible fog, they are meaningless and serve no purpose to help or hinder your argument. don't respond or comment on them, it will just lead down the winding path of being a worthless rating whore like Zeke who makes no worthwhile contribution.
VVV-|Hence dumb|-VVV
@Retardation, I don't think you realize what adrenaline can allow the body to withstand, if for a short period of time, a man can withstand several bullet wounds, while still being a threat, in fact if he can withstand it because of adrenaline, it's only going to get worse. You shouldn't underestimate what the body is capable of.
About the attack dog, while yes, police hounds are trained to incapacitate by pouncing a target to the ground, they need velocity, they need to run for a certain distance before jumping to push them, at this distance, all the dog can do is bite the hand and get a pipe in the skull.
This doesn't mean the cop didn't do maybe the best they could have, but then again, the guy is ignoring the order, shrugging off a tazer, and then going forward them with a weapon in hand, at this point, it's clear the man refuses to follow orders, so actions are taken.
So yes, maybe the cop shot too much in your opinion, but then again why did this idiot insist on ignoring order, coming out with a weapon, and practically brandishing it? It's a shame it happened, but he had it coming after all these faults.
[QUOTE=Bragdras;34386160]@Retardation, I don't think you realize what adrenaline can allow the body to withstand, if for a short period of time, a man can withstand several bullet wounds, while still being a threat, in fact if he can withstand it because of adrenaline, it's only going to get worse. You shouldn't underestimate what the body is capable of.
About the attack dog, while yes, police hounds are trained to incapacitate by pouncing a target to the ground, they need velocity, they need to run for a certain distance before jumping to push them, at this distance, all the dog can do is bite the hand and get a pipe in the skull.
This doesn't mean the cop didn't do maybe the best they could have, but then again, the guy is ignoring the order, shrugging off a tazer, and then going forward them with a weapon in hand, at this point, it's clear the man refuses to follow orders, so actions are taken.
So yes, maybe the cop shot too much in your opinion, but then again why did this idiot insist on ignoring order, coming out with a weapon, and practically brandishing it? It's a shame it happened, but he had it coming after all these faults.[/QUOTE]
And again I will ask why were they so fucking close to the man to begin with.
[QUOTE=Bragdras;34386160]@Retardation, I don't think you realize what adrenaline can allow the body to withstand, if for a short period of time, a man can withstand several bullet wounds, while still being a threat, in fact if he can withstand it because of adrenaline, it's only going to get worse. You shouldn't underestimate what the body is capable of.
About the attack dog, while yes, police hounds are trained to incapacitate by pouncing a target to the ground, they need velocity, they need to run for a certain distance before jumping to push them, at this distance, all the dog can do is bite the hand and get a pipe in the skull.
This doesn't mean the cop didn't do maybe the best they could have, but then again, the guy is ignoring the order, shrugging off a tazer, and then going forward them with a weapon in hand, at this point, it's clear the man refuses to follow orders, so actions are taken.
So yes, maybe the cop shot too much in your opinion, but then again why did this idiot insist on ignoring order, coming out with a weapon, and practically brandishing it? It's a shame it happened, but he had it coming after all these faults.[/QUOTE]
I'd still say there was a failing on the police part to utilise their assets in order to ensure a non lethal arrest, and I'd say there is a general failing in American police in general to help keep casualties to a minimum.
I mean had the officer had a shotgun with beanbags in it he'd probably have incapacitated the suspect with a broken ribcage and sternum and a hospital trip, but otherwise ok, I think the police need more non lethal options before they break out the ninemills and fill "criminal scum" full of holes.
[QUOTE=Axelius;34386180]And again I will ask why were they so fucking close to the man to begin with.[/QUOTE]
The taser doesn't fire very far.
[QUOTE=Axelius;34386180]And again I will ask why were they so fucking close to the man to begin with.[/QUOTE]
If you look (somewhat closely) at the video, the officer in the back who shoots the tazer is very obviously surprised the man just shrugs off the tazer, he actually does a mistake here, which is looking down on the ground at the tazer "wire" (I don't know the proper word, the thing that sticks on the skin on impact).
You can see the officer in the back who keep walking forward, the guy with the pipe then begins to brand his pipe and walk toward said officer, his colleague maintained a reasonable distance while following the guy all the way, and began shooting when he saw the man brandishing his weapon and closing in, he didn't have much choice, releasing the dog at this point is even more useless, and barking more orders is obviously out of question.
[QUOTE=Retardation;34386204]You're kind of caring more than I did now. Also it's quite silly to give me advice on how the forums work considering you've joined this month. You're probably an alt though so whatever.[/QUOTE]
2005 represent. also join date elitism is another hallmark of being an outrageous dipshit.
don't be that guy.
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bragdras;34386215]If you look (somewhat closely) at the video, the officer in the back who shoots the tazer is very obviously surprised the man just shrugs off the tazer, he actually does a mistake here, which is looking down on the ground at the tazer "wire" (I don't know the proper word, the thing that sticks on the skin on impact).[/QUOTE]
I don't think the taser connected properly, the suspect displayed none of the hallmarks of someone who was hit by a taser, even people who shrug them off have some involuntary muscle spasms, all he did was feel the wire on his face like "what the fuck" than he went for the officer.
[QUOTE=Starship;34385803]I love reading idiot comments about it not being justified, lets put you in that position as a policeman and a guy is about to swing a heavy pipe at you possibly injuring you badly, what do you do? You have a gun, a tazer that barely did anything on the suspect and possibly a baton. What would you do?
You'd shoot the guy, trust me.[/QUOTE]
i would be less than a murderer by releasing the 70lb attack animal I am having to hold back the second the suspect raises pipe from his side(there is a large time period between this and when suspect initiates any swinging at an officer)
if the cop did this I really doubt the dog would've caused fatal lacerations to the point that he'd die in the time period given
effectively, the man died because the k9 unit officer handled the situation poorly
[QUOTE=Retardation;34386193]The pipe is heavy as balls, how are you going to swing it effectively at the dog when he's on your arm exactly?[/QUOTE]
The problem is, they were not about to release the dog before the guy swings, why? Because he wasn't being a threat at that time, the officer who holds the dog only shot WHEN the man had the pipe ready to be swung at the other officer's face, you think the dog would have had time to grab the man's arm? The officer didn't want to risk his partner being injured, he shot the dude.
[quote]I still think that even if the dog failed to incapacitate the suspect, it would have definitely gotten his attention away from his swing at the policeman and would allow more time for the officers to react with any given means. For example tackling the suspect while he struggles to get the dog off him, taking the hammer away and bam, you've got yourself a job well done while leaving the suspect alive.[/quote]
CERTAINLY NOT. Do you see at what moment the officer decides to shoot? When the pipe is already brandished, let's say he'd have released his hound instead of shooting, then you'd have 1 dead man, and one severely injured officer. 2 more seconds and the pipe was in the officer's face, the dog, regardless of if it would have catched the guy's attention, it was already going in the officer's direction.
[QUOTE=Soda;34386241]i would be less than a murderer by releasing the 70lb attack animal I am having to hold back the second the suspect raises pipe from his side(there is a large time period between this and when suspect initiates any swinging at an officer)
if the cop did this I really doubt the dog would've caused fatal lacerations to the point that he'd die in the time period given
effectively, the man died because the k9 unit officer handled the situation poorly[/QUOTE]
Except he didn't. Picture this in your situation: You've got a guy with a heavy weapon, most likely on drugs and if not he's got adrenaline pumping through him, advancing on your partner with intent to attack, you just tried to non-lethally disable him (though you mostly missed, but still, a taser has a huge amount of charge behind it) and talk him down beforehand and neither worked, and you've got milliseconds to save your friend's life. Would you send out your dog, most likely resulting in it having its head stoved in like a cooked egg, followed by your partner? Or would you pull out your bangpipe and lodge a few rounds in him?
Besides, take a look at all the videos of police dogs in action. In ALL of them, whenever a dog pounces, it's because it got a running start. None of that there.
[QUOTE=Bragdras;34386262]The problem is, they were not about to release the dog before the guy swings, why? Because he wasn't being a threat at that time, the officer who holds the dog only shot WHEN the man had the pipe ready to be swung at the other officer's face, you think the dog would have had time to grab the man's arm? The officer didn't want to risk his partner being injured, he shot the dude.[/QUOTE]
I think the procedure after being told he was to drop the weapon should be to disarm him using whatever means necessary even if it means releasing the attack dog, he was warned to drop the pipe, he failed to comply
[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;34386287]I think the procedure after being told he was to drop the weapon should be to disarm him using whatever means necessary even if it means releasing the attack dog, he was warned to drop the pipe, he failed to comply[/QUOTE]
And attempt to disarm was made, the tazer. He didn't comply.
[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;34386283]Except he didn't. Picture this in your situation: You've got a guy with a heavy weapon, most likely on drugs and if not he's got adrenaline pumping through him, advancing on your partner with intent to attack, you just tried to non-lethally disable him [B](though you mostly missed, but still, a taser has a huge amount of charge behind it)[/B] and talk him down beforehand and neither worked, and you've got milliseconds to save your friend's life. Would you send out your dog, most likely resulting in it having its head stoved in like a cooked egg, followed by your partner? Or would you pull out your bangpipe and lodge a few rounds in him?
Besides, take a look at all the videos of police dogs in action. In ALL of them, whenever a dog pounces, it's because it got a running start. None of that there.[/QUOTE]
So how exactly do tasers function in your delusion? since in the real world they need to connect in order to complete a circuit.
[QUOTE=Motherfuckers;34386287]I think the procedure after being told he was to drop the weapon should be to disarm him using whatever means necessary even if it means releasing the attack dog, he was warned to drop the pipe, he failed to comply[/QUOTE]
Perhaps he should have tackled and wrestled the suspect to the ground himself. The officers tried everything they could to have the situation come to a non violent end. Sometimes lethal force is necessary.
[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;34386283]Except he didn't. Picture this in your situation: You've got a guy with a heavy weapon, most likely on drugs and if not he's got adrenaline pumping through him, advancing on your partner with intent to attack, you just tried to non-lethally disable him (though you mostly missed, but still, a taser has a huge amount of charge behind it) and talk him down beforehand and neither worked, and you've got milliseconds to save your friend's life. Would you send out your dog, most likely resulting in it having its head stoved in like a cooked egg, followed by your partner? Or would you pull out your bangpipe and lodge a few rounds in him?[/quote]
good thing that isn't the situation at all.
0:42 -- brushes taser off. next line of possibly non-lethal takedown? dog. go dog.
0:43 -- hesitates
0:44 -- firing
[quote]
Besides, take a look at all the videos of police dogs in action. In ALL of them, whenever a dog pounces, it's because it got a running start. None of that there.[/QUOTE]
it doesn't need more of a running start than it has.
[QUOTE=Retardation;34386301]Im not saying the officer is some retard who had no idea what he was doing, but as you've said, he 'shot the dude' like any other given man would do. But he did NOT react like a [i]policeman[/i]. He let his nerves get the best of him and I am sure you are supposed to be trained to be able to deal with these exact situations better than the average Joe.
And even assuming you are correct, would letting off a warning shot be enough to surprise the suspect, allowing for the dog to take action? I believe so. Yet another way this could've been dealt with better.[/QUOTE]
That's without question, they could have reacted differently, we can't know what went through his head, so does the guy with the pipe though, which we can't ignore.
I don't know about the warning shot, it depends at what time it goes off, thing is, a warning shot before he was brandishing it would have been unnecessary, at the time, but as he was already in this position, I think no one can say if the guy would have stopped dead in his track to look at his right, or if he'd kept swinging.
Though, I still think the man had it coming, in a way, he had ample time to comply, and went as far as attacking (attempting to, at least). I'm not sure I can find much compassion for the man with the pipe. Though I can't find much for the officers either, the outcome of one man dieing is better than possibly 2.
Oh yeah forgot to make a joke too,
This is why Carl's Jr sucks ass.
[QUOTE=Axelius;34386014]
[video=youtube;22mMXcDJ8L8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mMXcDJ8L8[/video]
Yeah, thats not going to do anything.[/QUOTE]
WHAT THE FUCK that dog leap at the start already amazed me.
Not an expert or anything, so a simple question: If they had released the dog between the failed tasing and the lethal takedown, which according to what people write here would have been of questionable effectiveness, then wouldn't it be hard to go with the "lethal but safe" plan with the suspect maybe flailing his weapon is panic or the dog being in the way?
It seems like a tough situation and they didn't want to take any chances after what had happened already. Not a pretty sight, but I can't exactly blame them.
[QUOTE=Bragdras;34386160]all the dog can do is bite the hand and get a pipe in the skull.
[/QUOTE]
Most probably the dog won't get a pipe in the skull because, if I remember correct, most dogs are trained to bite the right hand because right hand alignment dominates within the society.
NOPE, SORRY. AMERICAN POLICE ARE ALL EVIL BAD ASSHOLES. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO SOMETHING GOOD OR REASONABLE. THEY SHOULD HAVE LET THAT MAN KILL THE OFFICERS, SHAME ON THEM FOR DEFENDING THEMSELVES.
[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;34386514]Not an expert or anything, so a simple question: If they had released the dog between the failed tasing and the lethal takedown, which according to what people write here would have been of questionable effectiveness, then wouldn't it be hard to go with the "lethal but safe" plan with the suspect maybe flailing his weapon is panic or the dog being in the way?
It seems like a tough situation and they didn't want to take any chances after what had happened already. Not a pretty sight, but I can't exactly blame them.[/QUOTE]
It would have worked, but unnecessary (at the time, since he wasn't being a threat, so no need for the dog then) the only reason the man died is because he was suddenly being life threatening, sudden moves = sudden actions =/= right action, but then he shouldn't have ignored the past orders and certainly shouldn't have branded a weapon.
The cops were doing their job fine, the actions following the man with the pipe's actions were not fine, but that goes for both parties, the guy who died more than the officers.
There's no denying it, he asked for it, I mean what would you do in the officer's shoes?
"We're barking him orders, he ignores them"
"We're pointing a pistol at him while barking said orders, he ignores them"
"Shoot a tazer on him, he takes it off"
"He turns around and brandish his weapon at my partner"
"OH WELL I SHOULD PROBABLY LOOK AND HOPE HE WILL COME TO HIS SENSE? Maybe release sonic the hounddog that'll grab the man's arm already halfway to my partner's face and hopefully the dog will completely stop the guy's arm dead in its track!"
No, you shoot him, he had plenty of time to comply, he didn't, end of the story.
Again, they didn't release the hound because it was [b] not needed at the time [/b], this whole thing happened in about 2 seconds (between when he becomes life threatening and the bullets are shot), they couldn't have done anything else, the guy who shot, shot at the last possible moment before more than one person would be harmed. Period, there's no denying of that.
Holy shit that was intense
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
Wow so he got tazered in the face, and was like "fuck that" and just took it off, and then the Officer like at least triple-tapped him?
Fucking America man..
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;34386849]Holy shit that was intense
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
Wow so he got tazered in the face, and was like "fuck that" and just took it off, and then the Officer like at least triple-tapped him?
Fucking America man..[/QUOTE]
..I don't get the last part of your post.
Good job on the cop's part. There was really no other course of action to be taken in that scenario unless you wanted more casualties / wounded people.
Also, laughing is a way to show anxiety.
[QUOTE=Retardation;34385038]Uh, he had an attack dog at hand and the suspect had no firearms. Why the fuck did he shoot him instead of just releasing the dog, let alone shoot him like 6 times?
how was this justified are you guys nuts[/QUOTE]
Are you sure about that? Would you be willing to bet your life on this when you are literally seconds away from having your face smashed in?
Oh man these YouTube comments, it's like Fox News without the conservatism.
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