Why are those dudes just laughing? That's messed up.
[QUOTE=Soda;34385187]yeah the second cop starting to fire is completely justified. you're right fp. kill all crooks.
loving the dog not even being released. yes, this is how police should operate. good takedown.[/QUOTE]
i liked you better when you lurked WAYWO threads and rated everyone dumb
refrain from posting
[editline]25th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=koeniginator;34387780]What was he a suspect of?[/QUOTE]
brandishing a pipe bender i'd assume
The K9 wouldn't have worked very well at that range.
To be effective against an armed attacker, they need a running start. Fast though they may be, they still weigh considerably less than an adult male. The momentum from the sprint is necessary to tackle them. Simple physics.
However, since they were waiting for him to exit the store they had to be close. The K9 was likely there to intimidate. The instant the taze failed and that guy moved towards the officer, he was dead. Unleashing the dog would have been a terrible decision as it would have instantly make it about ten times harder to shoot the guy if the dog just latched on and failed to take him down.
As such, they enacted the last line of defense and shot him. At that range they shot a very acceptable number of rounds for a stop.
I just wished he got arrested instead..
Not exactly sure where the guy was headed, but seemed like he didn't expect to get shot when he was just walking and not really making any weapon-swinging motions or anything really.
[b]edit[/b] actually no, he did set himself in a stance to hit with the weapon.. Oh well, his life ended.
Also note to anyone who wonders why they didn't just try to tase him again, they did. You can see the taser officer reach back for something, then begin fiddling with the taser (probably reloading it), but the suspect attempts to rush him before he can finish and the second officer fires to save the first one (who made the mistake of taking his eyes off the suspect).
This is kinda why there are tazers.
Edit: The finnish police hardly never shoot a suspect, some time ago there was a case where a knife armed junkie had sprung from a bush and started chasing down one of two policemen looking for him, they apprehended him with nightsticks and pepperspray.
But I agree that he was attacking a police officer with the probably intention to harm (or atleast TURNING AROUND VERY MENACINGLY) so I guess it was within their rights to shoot him.
Edit2: Wow the guys recording the video are acting like it's some fucking show.
[QUOTE=Falchion;34390250]This is kinda why there are tazers.
Edit: The finnish police hardly never shoot a suspect, some time ago there was a case where a knife armed junkie had sprung from a bush and started chasing down one of two policemen looking for him, they apprehended him with nightsticks and pepperspray.
But I agree that he was attacking a police officer with the probably intention to harm so I guess it was within their rights to shoot him.[/QUOTE]
American police have tried to get away from night sticks and OC spray.
Neither is terribly effective by itself and you expose yourself to some pretty serious harm using them. Not to mention that, to be effective with a nightstick, you have to cause pretty serious bodily injury.
OC spray is extremely ineffective by itself at stopping a determined attacker. Hence the liberal application of nightstick when it is used.
Tazers, on the other hand, almost universally stop folks if the prongs connect and do so without serious bodily harm. Downside is that you only have one shot though. If that hit fails you either reload and try again, close to melee distance if they are unarmed/lightly armed, or if they try to attack you then you shoot them.
In this instance, I think having the dog there was a mistake. In general I don't find attack dogs to be a part of terribly good police work. They are great at tracking, and should be used for it, but as weapons I don't really agree with it.
I would like to see more pepperball guns. Paintballs with OC inside them. Unlike pepperspray, which requires you to be close enough to get your ass beat when the suspect goes haywire from being sprayed, you can hit them with pepperballs all day long from relative safety. Missing with the pepperball gun isn't too big a deal as the hopper is likely to have quite a few more rounds for you. If the OC fails, THEN you can close to tazer distance.
[QUOTE=GunFox;34390484]In this instance, I think having the dog there was a mistake. In general I don't find attack dogs to be a part of terribly good police work. They are great at tracking, and should be used for it, but as weapons I don't really agree with it.
I would like to see more pepperball guns. Paintballs with OC inside them. Unlike pepperspray, which requires you to be close enough to get your ass beat when the suspect goes haywire from being sprayed, you can hit them with pepperballs all day long from relative safety. Missing with the pepperball gun isn't too big a deal as the hopper is likely to have quite a few more rounds for you. If the OC fails, THEN you can close to tazer distance.[/QUOTE]
Police Dogs are also good for taking down suspects fleeing on foot (unless they climb over a ~4 foot fence). They're also good for intimidation, everyone is afraid of attack dogs.
As for using pepperball guns as non-lethal assault weapons, I've wondered why we don't do this. I think it'd be pretty effective (and cool) if every officer had a perpperball gun in his vehicle. If that fails, they can still fall back to the Taser, or their Firearm if things get really bad (such as the suspect revealing a firearm). And as you said, a miss from a pepperball gun is practically nothing. Plus those things feel like someone punching you when they hit, so that would also help to incapacitate a suspect.
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;34383804]That looks more like a pipe bending tool. Bascially this:
[img]http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/pipebender450.jpg[/img]
on the end of a pole. We have one at work. They're heavy as hell and would cause some serious damage if you got hit with one.[/QUOTE]
I think it's one of these:
[img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31v05xlOf5L.jpg[/img]
Ouch.
[QUOTE=Zacca;34384852]What the fuck was that guy on?
Also, wouldn't shooting him in the legs until he fell work?[/QUOTE]
Not this shit again, you shoot center mass and nothing else.
Shooting a moving target in the leg is risky and difficult, this isn't some action movie. The cops are going to shoot center mass, take down the target without risking any bystanders.
You don't shoot to wound, you shoot the kill. People that say stuff like you do are dumb. This isn't a action movie.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;34390623]Police Dogs are also good for taking down suspects fleeing on foot (unless they climb over a ~4 foot fence). They're also good for intimidation, everyone is afraid of attack dogs.
As for using pepperball guns as non-lethal assault weapons, I've wondered why we don't do this. I think it'd be pretty effective (and cool) if every officer had a perpperball gun in his vehicle. If that fails, they can still fall back to the Taser, or their Firearm if things get really bad (such as the suspect revealing a firearm). And as you said, a miss from a pepperball gun is practically nothing. Plus those things feel like someone punching you when they hit, so that would also help to incapacitate a suspect.[/QUOTE]
Even then they're useless, they're only good in CQC and in closed spaces. Pepperball guns are a waste of money unless you're in the corrections field Giving each cop one would emply they have enough time to go in the trunk and get it. Why use a weapon that is less effective and then move up one step? Just use the taser and if that does not work you know you only got two options - Deadly force, or you go hands on.
Counties and cities are constantly cutting funding for police officers, they hardly care about public safety anymore so officers got to deal with the tools provided which can be limited. Sad but true. If more money was spent on training and better more reliable equipment it would = better officers.
[QUOTE=DeandreT;34384891]He was killed out of panic, I doubt the cop was aiming at anything specific.[/QUOTE]
He didn't panic, the guy was going to take off his partners head.
Deadly force is met with deadly force. The whole use of force matrix can go all the way to the top in seconds. It isn't some "step by step" instruction. It can go from the lowest threat to the highest threat in seconds.
Too many shots.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;34383831]Wow, the guys doing the filming are disturbingly callous. Are we really that desensitized to someone getting killed in front of us?
I mean, the shooting was justified and all, but they were fucking [I]laughing it up[/I].[/QUOTE]
People react differently to certain situations.
[QUOTE=Axelius;34386014]Americuh, why did he get so fucking close and not release the dog ?
To the idiot saying he would have killed the dog: You try swinging a pipe when a fuckign dog is biting your arm to sherds, these american cops are fuckign stupid.
and shot 10 times ? What the fuck, you seriously think that was justified??? you people make me sick.
[video=youtube;22mMXcDJ8L8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mMXcDJ8L8[/video]
Yeah, thats not going to do anything.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw3aZ_ZY0XA[/media]
This guy took a [i]fucking taser to the face[/i], he was clearly on something. He would've shrugged off the dog, putting the dog in danger as well.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjSjgsonUvE[/media]
PCP makes you feel invincible.
The shooting was justified by the 21-foot rule. End of story.
[QUOTE=Retardation;34386193]The pipe is heavy as balls, how are you going to swing it effectively at the dog when he's on your arm exactly?[/QUOTE]
This isn't your fucking magical video game world where everyone has ninja reaction speed and has perfect aim with a gun. You need to grow up and think about how things work in real life. He was in mid swing with the pipe, the officer is not going to turn into fucking sam fisher and get the fuck out of the way while he is stumbling backwards and there is a pipe in mid swing at his head.
Also when bullets miss their targets they don't magically disappear, this isn't CoD. And unlike games friendly fire is unavoidable and the bullets will not magically bounce off the other officers and civilians if he missed a head or leg shot.
Your name suits you well.
Just looked at the youtube comments, people are stupid.
[QUOTE=OvB;34391705][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw3aZ_ZY0XA[/media]
This guy took a [i]fucking taser to the face[/i], he was clearly on something. He would've shrugged off the dog, putting the dog in danger as well.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjSjgsonUvE[/media]
PCP makes you feel invincible.[/QUOTE]
This too, the officer required surgery to fix the wounds on his face (including an eyelid nearly torn off)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG2M7er_txc[/media]
Man look how easily that godly attack dog got his target to the ground. /sarcasm
After three shots the man was on the ground, the rest were out of panic.
[QUOTE=C:\;34392694]After three shots the man was on the ground, the rest were out of panic.[/QUOTE]
You need to learn how to count. The first five caused the man to stumble, still clutching the weapon. Then the other officer fired three more rounds as he was still technically standing, then two more into him as he was falling. If anything two rounds were from panic, and I'm sure it was from the officer who had the weapon about to be swung in his face.
[QUOTE=C:\;34392694]After three shots the man was on the ground, the rest were out of panic.[/QUOTE]
After 5 shots he was leaning against the car before going out of sight. So you do not know what he was doing once he hit the ground.
[QUOTE=OvB;34391705]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjSjgsonUvE[/media]
PCP makes you feel invincible.[/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ that guy is just a tank, punch clean through a wood fence, and ignores 3 cops macing him.
Also, is that blood on him?
[QUOTE=Retardation;34386193]The pipe is heavy as balls, how are you going to swing it effectively at the dog when he's on your arm exactly?[/QUOTE]
How do you even know how heavy it is? and if its heavy, even still, a drug filled man will easily be able to swing it far better than a sober man.
[QUOTE=Bound;34392908]You need to learn how to count. The first five caused the man to stumble, still clutching the weapon. Then the other officer fired three more rounds as he was still technically standing, then two more into him as he was falling. If anything two rounds were from panic, and I'm sure it was from the officer who had the weapon about to be swung in his face.[/QUOTE]
Ah, sorry.
"It's important to listen* to the bloodthirsty zombies in the car filming this. These creatures are the product of the public school system, incompetent parenting, and the chemical warfare that is being waged on the American people (...or, more accurately, the people who exist in America)!
As the Iron boot of the police state crashes down upon these wretched beasts, I shall stand, indifferent, to their suffering.
The American people deserve to be conquered."
Favorite comment from Youtube.
Stay classy and spew bullshit like no other.
Justified shooting my ass, I hope you're being sarcastic. Was waiting for this to take off, wondered what happened to the guy.
[editline]26th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=areolop;34392115]The shooting was justified by the 21-foot rule. End of story.[/QUOTE]
Justification in the eyes of the law yes.
Justification in the eyes of humanity no.
Terrible reason to end someone's life regardless if they're coming at you with a metal pole or not.
The amount of bullets shot at the guy? Joke.
[QUOTE=Clunj;34395389]Justified shooting my ass, I hope you're being sarcastic. Was waiting for this to take off, wondered what happened to the guy.[/QUOTE]
Explain why it wouldnt be justified.
[QUOTE=areolop;34395420]Explain why it wouldnt be justified.[/QUOTE]
Considering you think its justified, we're currently on Facepunch, you're American and your previous justification was that of the law, yeah no. Fuck that debate.
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