Pit bull jumps 6-foot fence, attacks 9-year-old Birmingham boy - Polidicks

According to the ASPCA, there are about 80 million dogs in the US on the high side. If that other source is accurate, and pit bulls only account for 6% of the dog population, that means there are 4,800,000 pit bulls in the US. If pitbulls went around attacking, maiming, and killing people, there would be a lot more pitbull related deaths. Just like with shark attacks, I think it's important that we separate deaths and attacks from dogs into provoked and unprovoked attacks. [url]https://www.aspca.org/about-us/faq/pet-statistics[/url]

[QUOTE=OvB;48784912] Just like with shark attacks, I think it's important that we separate deaths and attacks from dogs into provoked and unprovoked attacks. [/QUOTE] Why? What even counts as provoking? Pitbulls are much easier to provoke. The provoke effort to danger ratio is very high in this case. Sure, pitbulls can be friendly, but it takes a lot more effort to train a friendly pitbull than any other dog. Why would you want to have a breed that is statistically a lot more dangerous as pet? Because of the chance that it will be nice and hopefully won't eat your baby's face? It makes no sense to play with such chances for so little(anything?) to gain.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48784939]Why? What even counts as provoking? Pitbulls are much easier to provoke. The provoke effort to danger ratio is very high in this case. Sure, pitbulls can be friendly, but it takes a lot more effort to train a friendly pitbull than any other dog. Why would you want to have a breed that is [B]statistically a lot more dangerous as pet?[/B] Because of the chance that it will be nice and hopefully won't eat your baby's face? It makes no sense to play with such chances for so little(anything?) to gain.[/QUOTE] This is flat out untrue. Source or stop spouting crap. [URL="http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/"]Because 86% of all Pit Bulls tested out of ~1000 (870, miscounted in source added wrong columns) passed the Temperament Test[/URL] and I actually have a source to back that up. In fact, it ranked higher than a significant majority of other breeds.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48784939]but it takes a lot more effort to train a friendly pitbull than any other dog.[/QUOTE] [quote]Because of their dependence upon humans, pit bulls respond well to positive reinforcement training and praise—they want to impress you by learning new tricks and showing submissive behavior. [/quote] [url]https://www.cesarsway.com/about-dogs/pit-bulls/how-to-care-for-your-pit-bull[/url] [quote]Pit Bulls thrive on non violent, reward based training methods. They are highly motivated students who certainly don't require any harsh corrections or intimidation throughout the training process.[/quote] [url]http://www.dog-obedience-training-review.com/pit-bull-training.html#pitbull[/url] [quote]Due to their high intelligence and strong desire to please, pit bulls are easier to train than most breeds. In this, they are very much like Golden Retrievers, but with an extra dose of energy and a terrier's stubborn streak and inventiveness thrown in. So, your demanding handful of a best friend is also a potential obedience champion.[/quote] [url]http://pitbulls.org/article/5-most-common-training-mistakes[/url] [quote]Pit Bulls have great physical and mental characteristics that make them excellent partners for responsible, active, and caring owners. [I][B]On the other hand, these same outstanding qualities can make them a little difficult to handle for people who don't have a lot of experience with dog ownership or for those who don't understand the breed very well.[/B][/I] Luckily, Pit Bulls are very responsive to training and eager to please. It is therefore strongly recommended to take them to obedience classes as soon as they are up to date with their shots.[/quote] [url]http://www.therescuetrain.org/pit_bull_education.php[/url] If you can't take the time to learn how to raise a dog you shouldn't get a dog. You guy's really do think these dogs are murder machines, don't you?

[QUOTE=OvB;48784998][url]https://www.cesarsway.com/about-dogs/pit-bulls/how-to-care-for-your-pit-bull[/url] [url]http://www.dog-obedience-training-review.com/pit-bull-training.html#pitbull[/url] [url]http://pitbulls.org/article/5-most-common-training-mistakes[/url] [url]http://www.therescuetrain.org/pit_bull_education.php[/url] If you can't take the time to learn how to raise a dog you shouldn't get a dog. You guy's really do think these dogs are murder machines, don't you?[/QUOTE] Here are the two scenarios I envision: Situation A. Vapid bimbo buys a Yorkshire terrier because she wants a dog to show off, but she has no fucking clue how to train it or treat it properly. Dog is poorly socialised as a result, and reacts aggressively to strangers, barking and even biting them. Because the dog is fairly small, bites don't do much and the dog is easily controlled. Eventually, someone reports the animal and animal control takes it away. Situation B. Dudebro buys a pit bull because he wants a big, manly dog to match his big, manly status. Unfortunately, he too, has no fucking clue how to raise a dog and the dog ends up being poorly trained and responds aggressively to strangers. He keeps it in his backyard so that it doesn't come into contact with strangers. He also installs a 6-foot tall fence to keep it in because hey, how the hell can a dog jump so high, right? One day, the little kid next door looks at it funny, and the pit bull decides that its go time. He jumps the 6-foot fence that his owner installed to keep him in, and rips into the kid, mauling him. He keeps going even after having been shot twice, only stopping when he was clubbed with a baseball bat. By the time he stops, the kid has been seriously injured and needs to be sent to the hospital. No, dogs aren't inherently murder machines. All dogs, however, can become aggressive if they're not raised well by the right people: the difference is that an aggressive small dog does a lot less damage than an aggressive big dog.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48785260] All dogs, however, can become aggressive if they're not raised well by the right people: the difference is that an aggressive small dog does a lot less damage than an aggressive big dog.[/QUOTE] I've said that in every recent dog thread, hence: [quote]If you can't take the time to learn how to raise a dog you shouldn't get a dog.[/quote] Banning a whole breed and killing 4 million dogs because someone can't handle it is not the way to go.

[QUOTE=OvB;48785288]I've said that in every recent dog thread, hence: Banning a whole breed and killing 4 million dogs because someone can't handle it is not the way to go.[/QUOTE] Okay, we seem to be on the same page here because I don't think dogs should be banned either. I'm just wondering if there's a way to ensure that people who can't own large dogs responsibly are dealt with expeditiously, not just for public safety but also for animal welfare in general.

[QUOTE=OvB;48785288]I've said that in every recent dog thread, hence: [/QUOTE] It's all well and good saying that but it's completely meaningless and naive. If you leave it up to an individual's judgement, nothing will happen. Self regulation isn't reliable, people over estimate themselves, their situation changes or they underestimate the dog. How can you say that regulation would be ineffective if your alternative is just wishful thinking and a trust in people to do the right thing?

[QUOTE=J!NX;48778399]can't wait until someone actually says "He should have just calmed the dog down" [editline]28th September 2015[/editline] as if you could possibly do that [U]while being attacked[/U][/QUOTE] you can, I've done it multiple times. though I'd be skeptical of the strawman you're creating where people would say this about a child. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=dannass;48778698]What's your beef with pit bulls dude?[/QUOTE] same as everyone else. soccer mom hysteria

So if I am understanding this right, the problem isn't the dog it's the owner? The stats show that pitbulls are responsible for almost 2 thirds of fatal dog attacks. Regardless of the self proclaimed experts saying otherwise the figures are not disputable. Therefore 2 thirds of pitbull owners are responsible. Not sure that anyone has suggested culling all pitbulls in this thread but discontinuing the breed is an option, unless of course we could somehow discontinue the breeds potential owners. In the UK these dogs are banned. [url]https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs[/url]

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48785955]So if I am understanding this right, the problem isn't the dog it's the owner? The stats show that pitbulls are responsible for almost 2 thirds of fatal dog attacks. Regardless of the self proclaimed experts saying otherwise the figures are not disputable. Therefore 2 thirds of pitbull owners are responsible. Not sure that anyone has suggested culling all pitbulls in this thread but discontinuing the breed is an option, unless of course we could somehow discontinue the breeds potential owners.[/QUOTE] yeah because a beaten and abused german shepherd is going to be a danger to nobody right. it's a demonstrable fact that pit bull breeds are some of the friendliest dog breeds around. I don't think I've ever seen any piece of propaganda that's as obviously made up as the pit bull hysteria. when a breed becomes the poster child of attack dogs because of how scary they can [B]look[/B] then obviously low lives that want a dog for that purpose are going to favor that breed. this anti pit bull attitude follows the exact same logic as banning a specific gun because it's used a lot in movies.

[QUOTE]1. yeah because a beaten and abused german shepherd is going to be a danger to nobody right. 2. it's a demonstrable fact that pit bull breeds are some of the friendliest dog breeds around[/QUOTE] 1. Exactly my point, why are German Shepherds not responsible for 2/3 of fatal attacks? They are just as likely to be poorly raised. 2. It's a statistical fact that they are responsible for 2/3 of fatal attacks in the US even though they only make up 6% of the dog population.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48786011]1. Exactly my point, why are German Shepherds not responsible for 2/3 of fatal attacks? They are just as likely to be poorly raised. 2. It's a statistical fact that they are responsible for 2/3 of fatal attacks in the US even though they only make up 6% of the dog population.[/QUOTE] yeah and what percentage do they make up of the population of dogs belonging to drug dealers and other various scumbags that only want a dog for the intimidation factor? german shepherds aren't just as likely to be poorly raised because german shepherds aren't a staple of crime culture and they aren't the victim of a widespread myth that every one of them is an unstoppable killing machine. if over half the human population thinks a pit bull is going to rip off a kid's face for no reason then why would regular families ever want to get a pit bull

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48786056]if over half the human population thinks a pit bull is going to rip off a kid's face for no reason then why would regular families ever want to get a pit bull[/QUOTE] To be honest, I don't know. There's been plenty of cases of pet pitbulls ripping family's kid's face or limbs.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48786063]To be honest, I don't know. There's been plenty of cases of pet pitbulls ripping family's kid's face or limbs.[/QUOTE] you say that, but pit bulls are always going to get more exposure because of the stigma attached to their breed. Legitimate dog experts name pit bulls as some of the best dogs to have around children, and the absolute worst mid-large sized dog to have as a guard dog (due to their friendliness with strangers).

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48786091]you say that, but pit bulls are always going to get more exposure because of the stigma attached to their breed. Legitimate dog experts name pit bulls as some of the best dogs to have around children, and the absolute worst mid-large sized dog to have as a guard dog (due to their friendliness with strangers).[/QUOTE] Can you link me to a few of these experts? Because the statistics go completely against their word. Pitbulls are/were bred to be strong and vicious, it makes no sense for them to be best with children. Unless of course you have it under very strict training and discipline, something many people either don't know how to or have no time to do. It's like if you fuck up a bit, later it will literally bite you in the ass.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48786056]yeah and what percentage do they make up of the population of dogs belonging to drug dealers and other various scumbags that only want a dog for the intimidation factor? german shepherds aren't just as likely to be poorly raised because german shepherds aren't a staple of crime culture and they aren't the victim of a widespread myth that every one of them is an unstoppable killing machine. if over half the human population thinks a pit bull is going to rip off a kid's face for no reason then why would regular families ever want to get a pit bull[/QUOTE] But a scumbag could not cause a small less aggressive dog to kill. The answer is to stop breeding pitbulls, cull scumbag pitbull owners or accept that 40 odd deaths a year is acceptable. I know which one I think is best.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48784750]Again, they attack people, maiming people and even killing them.[/QUOTE] Most dog attacks are provoked by idiots who somehow have avoided all knowledge about interacting with dogs. As for the rest, shit happens. You can't keep everyone safe. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;48786107]Can you link me to a few of these experts? Because the statistics go completely against their word. Pitbulls are/were bred to be strong and vicious, it makes no sense for them to be best with children. Unless of course you have it under very strict training and discipline, something many people either don't know how to or have no time to do. It's like if you fuck up a bit, later it will literally bite you in the ass.[/QUOTE] No. They were bred to be DOG aggressive, and very friendly and docile to people, so their owners could fight them safely.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48786107]Can you link me to a few of these experts? Because the statistics go completely against their word. Pitbulls are/were bred to be strong and vicious, it makes no sense for them to be best with children. Unless of course you have it under very strict training and discipline, something many people either don't know how to or have no time to do. It's like if you fuck up a bit, later it will literally bite you in the ass.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/09/19/pit-bull-breed-getting-bad-rap-says-dog-behaviour-expert[/url] [url]https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx[/url] there's also an abundance of cited information all over the pit bull wiki page. the statistics don't go against anything. it's blindingly obvious how much influence culture has on those statistics. even without context the statistics aren't very compelling either. you can tell your information is coming from a shit source when anti-pit bull people all think that there's only one breed of pit bull and that all pit bulls have the same trait. that's the first mistake in this narrative. the second is ignoring the fact that pit bulls are not an appealing dog to the vast majority of stable, responsible people looking to get a dog. meanwhile they're also a status symbol for criminals and wannabe tough guys all across north america and elsewhere. it amazes me that a person with a functional brain can look at that situation and then think the statistics have any meaning whatsoever. it's like looking at the american prison population statistics and concluding that the african ethnicity is genetically prone to violence.

[QUOTE]Most dog attacks are provoked by idiots who somehow have avoided all knowledge about interacting with dogs. As for the rest, shit happens. You can't keep everyone safe.[/QUOTE] Pretty much sums up the pro-pitbull sentiment.

[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48786165]But a scumbag could not cause a small less aggressive dog to kill. The answer is to stop breeding pitbulls, cull scumbag pitbull owners or accept that 40 odd deaths a year is acceptable. I know which one I think is best.[/QUOTE] this isn't a debate about size. what you just said advocated the extinction of all dogs big enough to harm a human. good luck convincing the world to cull the entire population of labs, retrievers, great danes, dobermans and collies. but I know that's not what you want, you're just using the size argument against only one breed that it applies to. so in other words nobody should listen to what you have to say. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=karlosfandango;48786218]Pretty much sums up the pro-pitbull sentiment.[/QUOTE] "my mum said they're mean" pretty much sums up the anti-pit bull sentiment

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48786206][url]http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/09/19/pit-bull-breed-getting-bad-rap-says-dog-behaviour-expert[/url] [url]https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/The-Role-of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx[/url][/QUOTE] The 1st link is really bad, shouldn't have posted that. 2nd one is very interesting though.

[QUOTE]"my mum said they're mean" [/QUOTE] Always listen to your mum.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48786233]The 1st link is really bad, shouldn't have posted that. 2nd one is very interesting though.[/QUOTE] it's a barebones article that sites a dog expert's opinion of the pit bull misconception. don't really care about facepunch's obsession with complaining about news sites

[QUOTE=Protocol7;48781355]Dog bites are preventable when both parties involved - i.e. the owner and the person bit - actually know what the fuck to do. First and foremost the owner should always be in control of the dog. Secondly, there are a lot of triggers that will make a dog bite. Think for example of the children that get bit by dogs, then imagine how kids interact with dogs. A 6 year old will just freak out and go "DOGGY!!!" and start basically overwhelming the dog. That is a situation that could make a dog bite the kid.[/QUOTE] Why do people need to go out of their way to not piss off a dog?

[QUOTE=Antary;48786255]Why do people need to go out of their way to not piss off a dog?[/QUOTE] that's not going out of your way. do you need to "go out of your way" to stop yourself from running up to people in the street, patting them on the back and running your hands through their hair? no? then it should be the same for a dog. just because somebody likes dogs that doesn't mean they're entitled to friendly interactions with every single dog they see.

[QUOTE=Bruhmis;48786269]that's not going out of your way. do you need to "go out of your way" to stop yourself from running up to people in the street, patting them on the back and running your hands through their hair? no? then it should be the same for a dog. just because somebody likes dogs that doesn't mean they're entitled to friendly interactions with every single dog they see.[/QUOTE] I don't think the kid in the subject article did any of those things, and yet he still triggered an attack.

[QUOTE=Antary;48786322]I don't think the kid in the subject article did any of those things, and yet he still triggered an attack.[/QUOTE] the attack probably wasn't triggered by anything meaningful. seems like it's just a vicious dog left outside by a neglectful owner.

Not enough info to say why/if the dog was provoked. We know nothing about the size of the yard, the type of fence, if the dog could see the kid playing, how the kid was playing, if the kid was making noise the dog might consider as threatening, the background of the dog, the environment the dog is in, etc, etc. Animals don't just attack for no reason. It's a calculated risk to put themselves in harms way to neutralize what they see as a threat for whatever reason. Could be something as harmless as the child screaming. (and a 6 foot fence is hardly an obstacle for a large dog that's not out of shape) Could be something provocative like someone touching their face or antagonizing them. (not likely in this case). It also should be known that bystanders attempt to free the victim can also make the dog even more hostile, and grabbing and pulling at the dog will make it worse. Remember, the dog thinks it's defending itself. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] Also, shooting at it might seem like a good idea, but unless you hit it in the vitals, a dog in the heat of the moment probably won't even know it was shot.

[QUOTE=OvB;48786511]Not enough info to say why/if the dog was provoked. We know nothing about the size of the yard, the type of fence, if the dog could see the kid playing, how the kid was playing, if the kid was making noise the dog might consider as threatening, the background of the dog, the environment the dog is in, etc, etc. Animals don't just attack for no reason. It's a calculated risk to put themselves in harms way to neutralize what they see as a threat for whatever reason. Could be something as harmless as the child screaming. (and a 6 foot fence is hardly an obstacle for a large dog that's not out of shape) Could be something provocative like someone touching their face or antagonizing them. (not likely in this case). It also should be known that bystanders attempt to free the victim can also make the dog even more hostile, and grabbing and pulling at the dog will make it worse. Remember, the dog thinks it's defending itself. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] Also, shooting at it might seem like a good idea, but unless you hit it in the vitals, a dog in the heat of the moment probably won't even know it was shot.[/QUOTE] All of these reasons seem like good reasons to not have them as pets.