[QUOTE=sYnced;51651046]they cannot resist the urge to....
DEBATE
i think it's safe to say if i shot your fucking child in the face you'd want me killed
but please debate that lol[/QUOTE]
Of course I'd want you killed. Which is why I'm not a lawmaker or a judge.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51651053]Of course I'd want you killed. Which is why I'm not a lawmaker or a judge.[/QUOTE]
ofc, yet people debate lawmakers/judges on ethics
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651040]why are you telling us and not the jury?
[B]just accept that fact that he's gonna die[/B]
well that's like ... your opinion man[/QUOTE]
must ask what's the point of this thread if we can't discuss and share opinions on the topic?
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651046]i think it's safe to say if i shot your fucking child in the face you'd want me killed
but please debate that lol[/QUOTE]
no i would not.
and even if i did that doesn't mean you should be killed
Before we start debating the ethics of this situation, I suggest everyone read this part.
[quote]That it at times seemed more important to Mr. Roof to not be depicted as mentally ill than to avoid execution prompted some in the courtroom to question whether he simply preferred to die than to serve a long life in prison. His writings and confession offered evidence on both sides of that question, wavering between glimmers of hope — even that he might someday be pardoned — and an attraction to the prospects of martyrdom. But his commitment to his cause — the restoration of white power through violent subjugation — never publicly flagged.[/quote]
He wants to martyr, and he also wants to be pardoned. No matter what you do, its going to be bad.
Kill him, and he dies as a martyr and you give him what he wants. He won't suffer, but hey it's the Death Penalty.
Spare him, and he suffers as a metaphorical martyr. You don't give him what he wants, and it's likely that he will never change, and only suffer through life feeling bad for himself.
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651040]just accept that fact that he's gonna die
[/QUOTE]
i'd hope that everywhere in the world would come out of the stone ages and abolish barbaric forms of punishment, so no, i'm not going to accept it. a bloodlust for human lives is just as disgusting regardless on what side of the law they're on
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51651062]Before we start debating the ethics of this situation, I suggest everyone read this part.
He wants to martyr, and he also wants to be pardoned. No matter what you do, its going to be bad.
Kill him, and he dies as a martyr and you give him what he wants. He won't suffer, but hey it's the Death Penalty.
Spare him, and he suffers as a metaphorical martyr. You don't give him what he wants, and it's likely that he will never change, and only suffer through life feeling bad for himself.[/QUOTE]
The most obvious course of action is life in prison. I dont see how he would be martyred or ever considered for pardoning in that situation.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;51651060]no i would not.
and even if i did that doesn't mean you should be killed[/QUOTE]
that's fine Rusty100,
but people just as competent as you have decided to kill him lol
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651046]i think it's safe to say if i shot your fucking child in the face you'd want me killed
but please debate that lol[/QUOTE]
Human emotion should not be counted into legal decisions. It's totally fine to feel vengeful and extremely angry when evil people do evil things, but the job of the law should not ever be to try and fulfill those feelings. The law should do its best to prevent something similar from happening again. Every time you imply that the point is to [I]serve justice[/I], as in seeking catharsis for your anger, you contribute to a culture where finding out what type of punishment works best takes a back seat.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51651080]Human emotion should not be counted into legal decisions. It's totally fine to feel vengeful and extremely angry when evil people do evil things, but the job of the law should not ever be to try and fulfill those feelings. The law should do its best to prevent something similar from happening again. Every time you imply that the point is to [I]serve justice[/I], as in seeking catharsis for your anger, you contribute to a culture where finding out what type of punishment works best takes a back seat.[/QUOTE]
you're right but a jury would decide my fate - just like in this case? i would probably be sentenced to death depending on severity.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;51651070]i'd hope that everywhere in the world would come out of the stone ages and abolish barbaric forms of punishment, so no, i'm not going to accept it. a bloodlust for human lives is just as disgusting regardless on what side of the law they're on[/QUOTE]
i'm not picking a fight with you but,
you have no right to act as if you are of some higher morale character because you can't accept executions
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;51651084]good sentence.
imagine being so stupid that you think this guy deserves to live.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe we're just discussing the complicated ethical dilemma of capital punishment as a whole? Roof is probably my least favorite human being currently living on the planet but that's not going to have any stake in that discussion.
[QUOTE=Judas;51651014]dylann himself has said he doesn't intend to fight it, so he'll probably get pushed through and kileld fairly quickly[/QUOTE]
He is also facing a state trial in SC that has been postponed indefinitely:
[QUOTE]The federal government has not killed one of its prisoners since 2003. Mr. Roof also faces a separate capital prosecution for murder in South Carolina, where no inmate has been put to death in more than five years. The state trial, initially set for Jan. 17, has been indefinitely postponed.[/QUOTE]
This will not be quick if they ever do eventually execute him.
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;51651084]good sentence.
imagine being so stupid that you think this guy deserves to live.[/QUOTE]
every single person deserves to live, no matter what they've done.
[editline]11th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651086]
i'm not picking a fight with you but,
you have no right to act as if you are of some higher morale character because you can't accept executions[/QUOTE]
yes i do. 100%
[QUOTE=Duck M.;51651088]Or maybe we're just discussing the complicated ethical dilemma of capital punishment as a whole? Roof is probably my least favorite human being currently living on the planet but that's not going to have any stake in that discussion.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe it's not so complicated. the jury didn't find it complicated, neither did the law.
BUT YOU FIND IT COMPLICATED
he killed several people
jury sentence him to death
CHILDREN HAVE A BETTER TIME UNDERSTANDING THIS VERDICT
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651099]Or maybe it's not so complicated.
he killed several people
jury sentence him to death[/QUOTE]
Have you considered that you're being reductionist? Nobody is questioning the severity of his crime.
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651099]Or maybe it's not so complicated. the jury didn't find it complicated, neither did the law.
BUT YOU FIND IT COMPLICATED
he killed several people
jury sentence him to death
CHILDREN HAVE A BETTER TIME UNDERSTAND THIS VERDICT[/QUOTE]
murdering someone for murder
you're right, it's not complicated. it's stupid.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;51651095]every single person deserves to live, no matter what they've done.
[/QUOTE]
Dylann Roof is sentenced to death
get over it.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;51651107]murdering someone for murder
you're right, it's not complicated. it's stupid.[/QUOTE]
that's fucking logical
if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651108]Dylann Roof is sentenced to death
get over it.[/QUOTE]
People have different opinions on the matter (that I may not necessarily support but should be heard).
Get over it.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51651115]People have different opinions on the matter (that I may not necessarily support but should be heard).
Get over it.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, I'll exit the building now.
I am refraining my remaining posts from this thread.
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651108]Dylann Roof is sentenced to death
get over it.[/QUOTE]
i am not going to, maybe you should get over that?
see even as a morally righteous super liberal i find this situation incredibly difficult to judge
if you give him a life sentence, he will probably suffer feeling sorry for himself
if you give him a death sentence, he won't stuffer
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651108]Dylann Roof is sentenced to death
get over it.
that's fucking logical
if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol[/QUOTE]
So you stole some stuff? Off come your hands. It's perfectly logical :)
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651108]
that's fucking logical
if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol[/QUOTE]
Eye for an Eye punishment has largely been discredited as a logical and ethical form of jurisdiction since like... 5000 BC
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651099]Or maybe it's not so complicated. the jury didn't find it complicated, neither did the law.
BUT YOU FIND IT COMPLICATED
he killed several people
jury sentence him to death
CHILDREN HAVE A BETTER TIME UNDERSTANDING THIS VERDICT[/QUOTE]
You're being incredibly dismissive and it's not conducive at all to a proper debate. Just because someone doesn't share the same ethical views on the death penalty doesn't mean they're too dumb to understand the concept.
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651108]Dylann Roof is sentenced to death
get over it.
that's fucking logical
if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol[/QUOTE]
it's the complete opposite of logical. how can you not realise that there's something fundamentally broken with your reasoning. you know that old adage two wrongs don't make a right? it's very simple. murdering someone for committing murder is still murder. it's wrong. always.
[QUOTE=sYnced;51651086]you're right but a jury would decide my fate - just like in this case? i would probably be sentenced to death depending on severity.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure judges work in a field vastly more complicated than I can imagine, and that laws, punishments and their consequences have been studied far more extensively than I can imagine, too. But still, I worry that those in charge of it all are affected by this culture as well. Sometimes I just feel as though most people have forgotten what the point of laws and punishments are. I actually genuinely don't know what to think personally, since no matter what you choose between life in prison and a death sentence, you've already given up on the prime objective of punishments. I honestly don't know, I can't even tell which one is the most 'humane'. But I just wish people would stop arguing for one over the other based on what they feel the perpetrator "[I]deserves[/I]".
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51651128]see even as a morally righteous super liberal i find this situation incredibly difficult to judge
if you give him a life sentence, he will probably suffer feeling sorry for himself
if you give him a death sentence, he won't stuffer[/QUOTE]
There's no dilemma. It's not about suffering. It's about what is just and effective at maintaining a just society, and the answer to that is life imprisonment without parole.
[QUOTE=bdd458;51651131]So you stole some stuff? Off come your hands. It's perfectly logical :)[/QUOTE]
to be fair that's not comparable at all. a better anaolgy would be "you stole some stuff? let's steal your stuff"
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51651128]see even as a morally righteous super liberal i find this situation incredibly difficult to judge
if you give him a life sentence, he will probably suffer feeling sorry for himself
if you give him a death sentence, he won't stuffer[/QUOTE]
have him attend therapy while in prison. even if he doesn't change, he won't enjoy himself. the best case scenario is that he turns his beliefs around which is a win for everybody.
I don't think the death penalty is an eye for an eye, but rather we have to get rid of someone who is overall unfit for humanity. He's got something wrong with him. I think hes beyond treatment sadly.
I've got nothing wrong with the death penalty, as long as it's not a "haha everyone gets one" but a long and thought out decision.
Sucks we have to kill him, with being a martyr and such. But no matter what we do, he's going to be seen as a symbol. There really is no cheap, or logical way to solve this.
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