Egyptian Revolution Was Against Neoliberalism- The Best Opinion Piece I've Seen In A While
505 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Strider*;28453192]I'm not the one that brought these up, I just showed figures for the sake of argument.
I just found it funny how he claimed the Scandinavian countries were superior in these respects when two seconds of research would show they obviously are not.[/QUOTE]
Education is higher, life expectancy is higher, and so on.
[QUOTE=Billiam;28453301]Strider I am confused as to what your arguing points against the Nordic Model are.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://gyazo.com/b41c3dadd0302c0bd7f90f0aa11c8bb8.png[/img]
[img]http://gyazo.com/bbbeb7a3c55507619b989bccb2dfe866.png[/img]
High taxes, high cost of living, and a minute amount of affluence.
It's easy to get by with mediocrity but if you want to pursue success the Nordic model shouldn't be your most favorable system.
I love how you call that mediocrity...
How the fuck far can we go if only 1% of us is getting anywhere and the rest of us aren't? How is that a good thing?
You STILL can't wrap your head around the simple fact your "opinion" is not objective. It is not a fact that "high taxes" are bad. It's not a fact that they're "mediocre".
Also, [quote=Strider*]Monopolies don't exist in a free market and if they do it's for the benefit of the people.[/quote]
How does this work?
[QUOTE=TH89;28448272]It's mainly America that has the terms mixed up. Outside of the USA "liberal" has historically implied support for free markets and small government[/QUOTE]
Outside the US, it normally is more about social opinions than anything else.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28453658]High taxes, high cost of living, and a minute amount of affluence.
It's easy to get by with mediocrity but if you want to pursue success the Nordic model shouldn't be your most favorable system.[/QUOTE]
I'm confused about the Cost of Living one, it looks like Finland and Sweden are lower than the U.S. and Norway is only .010 higher and in the Income one, only Sweden is listed, and their property value isn't counted which is very important to the Nordic model.
Also "minute amount of affluence"? Norway has the best ratio of millionaires in the world, and has a higher billionaire ratio than the U.S.
[url]http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1881847.ece[/url]
4,800,000/7
300,000,000/345
[editline]6th March 2011[/editline]
As for High-Taxes, I don't think anyone is complaining because it has helped Scandinavia clinch spots among the highest standards of living in the world.
[QUOTE=Billiam;28453865]I'm confused about the Cost of Living one, it looks like Finland and Sweden are lower than the U.S. and Norway is only .010 higher and in the Income one, only Sweden is listed, and their property value isn't counted which is very important to the Nordic model.
Also "minute amount of affluence"? Norway has the best ratio of millionaires in the world, and has a higher billionaire ratio than the U.S.
[URL]http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1881847.ece[/URL]
4,800,000/7
300,000,000/345
[editline]6th March 2011[/editline]
As for High-Taxes, I don't think anyone is complaining because it has helped Scandinavia clinch spots among the highest standards of living in the world.[/QUOTE]
no man because scandanavia has a high cost of living compared to the US so it must be a poor system right?
It's pointless arguing with him, as trying to get him to acknowledge that the scandanavian countries just have it better would be like trying to get blood from a stone.
Also being American, it'll be impossible for him to understand that high taxes aren't necessarily worse than the holocaust, and have actually meant that the standard of living they have there, far surpasses most of the west.
Also the krone is one of the best currencies, and the Scandinavian countries are among the wealthiest in the world.
Norway is two according [url]http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/01/weodata/index.aspx[/url]
[editline]6th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;28453917]no man because scandanavia has a high cost of living compared to the US so it must be a poor system right?
It's pointless arguing with him, as trying to get him to acknowledge that the scandanavian countries just have it better would be like trying to get blood from a stone.[/QUOTE]
Scandinavia is wealthy, educated, healthy, environmentally friendly, resource conservative, technologically advanced.
Norway is arguably the best country in the world, except in military power. :colbert:
Also strider where did this bullshit about America having around the same national IQ as the scandanavian countries come from.
because it doesn't.
Strider, why is your data more than half a decade old?
You know some important economic things happened since then, right?
Ah neoliberalism, bit of thatcher
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;28453974]Also strider where did this bullshit about America having around the same national IQ as the scandanavian countries come from.
because it doesn't.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://gyazo.com/92ca7a9781bf634d47c159a56ede55e3.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Strider*;28453658][img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/b41c3dadd0302c0bd7f90f0aa11c8bb8.png[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/bbbeb7a3c55507619b989bccb2dfe866.png[/img_thumb]
High taxes, high cost of living, and a minute amount of affluence.
It's easy to get by with mediocrity but if you want to pursue success the Nordic model shouldn't be your most favorable system.[/QUOTE]
I personally dont care much about living cost when you have statistics like this.
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/teenage-births.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/violence.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/trust.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/obesity.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/imprisonment.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/education.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/drug-use.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/mental-health.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Strider*;28459326][img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/92ca7a9781bf634d47c159a56ede55e3.png[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
IQ. DOES. NOT. MATTER.
IQ is an outdated and invalidated method of pattern recognition. It is not the most advanced method, nor is it the most accurate method to gauge intelligence.
[editline]6th March 2011[/editline]
Also, that chart is largely bogus from what I can tell.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28463069]IQ. DOES. NOT. MATTER.
IQ is an outdated and invalidated method of pattern recognition. It is not the most advanced method, nor is it the most accurate method to gauge intelligence.
[editline]6th March 2011[/editline]
Also, that chart is largely bogus from what I can tell.[/QUOTE]
You sure get angry a lot.
I'm not the one that brought up intelligence in Scandinavian countries.
I'm simply showing him that the only gauge of intelligence I know of (I.Q) is not somehow remarkably higher in the Nordic countries.
[editline]7th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28461376]I personally dont care much about living cost when you have statistics like this.[/QUOTE]
Income equality isn't inherently important at all.
You heard it here first this should be good.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28465820]You sure get angry a lot.
I'm not the one that brought up intelligence in Scandinavian countries.
I'm simply showing him that the only gauge of intelligence I know of (I.Q) is not somehow remarkably higher in the Nordic countries.
[editline]7th March 2011[/editline]
Income equality isn't inherently important at all.
You heard it here first this should be good.[/QUOTE]
How the fuck am I angry? You perceive anger where there's simply my mannerisms. Don't get your panties wet hoping to upset me.
Yeah, and the method you know of isn't relevant.
How is income equality not important? Are people not equal? Do people not deserve an equal chance? Do only those with success deserve to have a good life, and have their kids have a good life? How does a high tax play a part in harming those people who are succseful anyways? Survival of the fittest? if that's the case, we should let anyone genetically inferior die off. Rich people can be genetically inferior.
Strider got his ass handed to him about 37 consecutive times now.
the issue is that strider's delta brainwave operates on a different frequency than ours so things like poverty and income inequality are all actually justified or even considered components of a healthy economic system by him once they've been modulated through his thought-gland
[QUOTE=Strider*;28465820]Income equality isn't inherently important at all.
You heard it here first this should be good.[/QUOTE]
That's arguable.
Even if Scandinavia was the mediocre place you describe it as, which it isn't, they'd still have a happier population than the United States.
Even so there is literally no argument against the Nordic Model unless your goal for all countries involves fucking everything up.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28444123]
The problem is the people who are in favor of the Scandinavian model and the "Socialist Democracy" are those who want everyone to be mediocre with them.[/QUOTE]
yep def. thanks strider for clearing that up i was so confused there
[QUOTE=thisispain;28468311]yep def. thanks strider for clearing that up i was so confused there[/QUOTE]
his heads so far up his ass I'm surprised it isn't hurting his asshole to get his shoulders up there too.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28468351]his heads so far up his ass I'm surprised it isn't hurting his asshole to get his shoulders up there too.[/QUOTE]
that's a wonderfully vivid image
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28461376]I personally dont care much about living cost when you have statistics like this.
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/teenage-births.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/violence.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/trust.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/obesity.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/imprisonment.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/education.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/drug-use.gif[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/images/mental-health.gif[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
I love these graphs. Proof that our lifestyle here in the U.S is counterproductive.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28465820]Income equality isn't inherently important at all.[/QUOTE]
How can you say that in the face of a billion charts showing otherwise?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28469310]How can you say that in the face of a billion charts showing otherwise?[/QUOTE]
"what? those charts aren't capitalist enough to be true"
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;28430758]Neoliberalism in this context seems to have nothing to do with liberals as viewed in the west.[/QUOTE]
Think of liberals as libertarians and it all makes sense. The liberals we're used to hearing about are in fact "progressives". Teddy Roosevelt founded the progressive party, bless his rotting soul.
[editline]6th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ryasnack1;28469164]I love these graphs. Proof that our lifestyle here in the U.S is counterproductive.[/QUOTE]
Those graphs don't explain shit.
[quote]Trial balloons for this witchcraft narrative are already being floated outside of Egypt. The New York Times ran an article on February 17th casting the military as a regressive force opposed to privatization and seeking a return to Nasserist statism. The article pits the ostensibly "good side" of the Mubarak regime (privatization programs) against bad old Arab socialism, completely ignoring the fact that while the system of military privilege may preserve some public-sector resources transferred from the civilian economy under pressure of IMF structural adjustment programs, the empire of the generals is hardly limited to a ring-fenced quasi-underground public sector.
Officers were also rewarded with private-sector perks; civilian political/business empires mixed public and private roles to the point that what was government and what was private were indistinguishable; both the military and civilians raked in rents from foreign aid. The generals may well prefer a new round of neoliberal witchcraft. More privatization will simply free up assets and rents that only the politically connected (including the generals) can acquire. Fixing a failed neoliberal state by more stringent applications of neoliberalism could be the surest way for them to preserve their privileges.
A neoliberal fix would, however, be a tragedy for the pro-democracy movement. The demands of the protesters were clear and largely political: remove the regime; end the emergency law; stop state torture; hold free and fair elections. But implicit in these demands from the beginning (and decisive by the end) was an expectation of greater social and economic justice. Social media may have helped organise the kernel of a movement that eventually overthrew Mubarak, but a large element of what got enough people into the streets to finally overwhelm the state security forces was economic grievances that are intrinsic to neoliberalism. These grievances cannot be reduced to grinding poverty, for revolutions are never carried out by the poorest of the poor. It was rather the erosion of a sense that some human spheres should be outside the logic of markets. Mubarak’s Egypt degraded schools and hospitals, and guaranteed grossly inadequate wages, particularly in the ever-expanding private sector. This was what turned hundreds of dedicated activists into millions of determined protestors.[/quote]
You know, i don't know what i would classify "neoliberalism" as so i won't comment on the merits of that system, however, everyone here seems to think it's simply smaller governments and economic freedom.
If that's the case then why does it seem like Egypt was an Oligarchy mixed with some sort of totally fixed "capitalism", or, crony capitalism. In fact i can't even call it crony capitalism because that would imply the government is assisting the companies/people/corporations what have you, in this case it seems they're just awarding money to themselves.
I have problems with this opinion piece. I have no problem with people criticizing economic beliefs, even my own.. but calling this a free-market problem is like calling the fall of the USSR a collectivist problem (Communism, Socialism, whatever) and i have to point out explicitly, i don't agree with that in either case. They're both ignorant.
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;28469665]
Those graphs don't explain shit.[/QUOTE]
because you say they don't?
[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28466936]Strider got his ass handed to him about 37 consecutive times now.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you try to post something useful to the topic at hand?
You've so far been extremely worthless.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28470667]Why don't you try to post something useful to the topic at hand?
You've so far been extremely worthless.[/QUOTE]
Please explain, with evidence, why income inequality is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28470667]Why don't you try to post something useful to the topic at hand?
You've so far been extremely worthless.[/QUOTE]
i say let the free market decide on worth sir
and so far it's about worth one box and one agree so you are wrong!
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