• Egyptian Revolution Was Against Neoliberalism- The Best Opinion Piece I've Seen In A While
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[QUOTE=Strider*;28487343]Or perhaps you can't argue with me? If you mean to imply that I regard myself as my highest value you are correct but it is not the role or motive of an individualist to neglect the presence and rights of others.[/QUOTE] Nope, but thanks again for the laugh. I argue against you, here's your response more often than not "You're just not comprehending it". Hell, you ignore the points i make to make quips about me. Rather than replying to points I make. That's what glaber does.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487008]Alright I knew that one would be humorous. You'll have a laugh at this one check out the connection between Earth Day and Vladimir Lenin's birthday. [editline]8th March 2011[/editline] The goal of the major groups and leaders of the ecology movement mirror the motives of the leaders of the "peace" movement of the 60s. [editline]8th March 2011[/editline] And this is solely because the ecology movement is the direct evolution of what was the new left. [editline]8th March 2011[/editline] Atta boy.[/QUOTE] Um, wow. Well, okay, how exactly is the environmentalist/ecology movement a leftist movement? And the new left? What [I]are[/I] you talking about?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28487418]Um, wow. Well, okay, how exactly is the environmentalist/ecology movement a leftist movement? And the new left? What [I]are[/I] you talking about?[/QUOTE] The New World Order's coming to get us, don't you know? it takes the form of socialism and 'taking away my property' and etc.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28487443]The New World Order's coming to get us, don't you know? it takes the form of socialism and 'taking away my property' and etc.[/QUOTE] Democratic Socialism isn't about taking away anyone's houses or any nonsense like that.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28487459]Democratic Socialism isn't about taking away anyone's houses or any nonsense like that.[/QUOTE] yes it is, if you don't understand that I just can't explain it to you
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28487465]yes it is, if you don't understand that I just can't explain it to you[/QUOTE] I realize you're being sarcastic, but damned if that's not exactly the kind of thing he says.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28487418]Um, wow. Well, okay, how exactly is the environmentalist/ecology movement a leftist movement? And the new left? What [I]are[/I] you talking about?[/QUOTE] The ecology movement is the child of the new left. The left attempted to blame capitalism for poverty in the late 19th to early 20th century, when this was discovered to be nothing but further from the truth they attempted to pursue the argument that capitalism causes war with the peace "revolution" of the 60s, and ultimately what they're now left with is that capitalism perverts the environment.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487503]The ecology movement is the child of the new left. The left attempted to blame capitalism for poverty in the late 19th to early 20th century, when this was discovered to be nothing but further from the truth they attempted to pursue the argument that capitalism causes war with the peace "revolution" of the 60s, and ultimately what they're now left with is that capitalism perverts the environment.[/QUOTE] hey can i have a hit from that crack pipe once you are done with it?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28487497]I realize you're being sarcastic, but damned if that's not exactly the kind of thing he says.[/QUOTE] I've never once referred to any New World Order. The sad fact is that even if some nefarious group were trying to plot such a takeover they'd at least recognize the infallibility of the implications of socialism unlike the socialists who sincerely advocate it. [editline]8th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;28487512]hey can i have a hit from that crack pipe once you are done with it?[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.noahmallin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/weather_underground3.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487503]The ecology movement is the child of the new left. The left attempted to blame capitalism for poverty in the late 19th to early 20th century, when this was discovered to be nothing but further from the truth they attempted to pursue the argument that capitalism causes war with the peace "revolution" of the 60s, and ultimately what they're now left with is that capitalism perverts the environment.[/QUOTE] They attempted to blame Capitalism during that time because Capitalism [B]was[/B] to blame.
the fuck does ecology have to do with anything do you even know the definition of the words you are using
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28487573]They attempted to blame Capitalism during that time because Capitalism [B]was[/B] to blame.[/QUOTE] So now you're agreeing that the destruction of capitalism was their motive? For poverty? No capitalism inherited it. For war? No capitalism solved it. [editline]8th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;28487597]the fuck does ecology have to do with anything do you even know the definition of the words you are using[/QUOTE] You aren't reading. Don't show up into a thread and neglect the former posts only to act like I'm being unclear.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487605]For poverty? No capitalism inherited it. For war? No capitalism solved it.[/QUOTE] Capitalism doesn't solve war. How the hell [B]could [/B]Capitalism solve war? And as for the poverty, that came from a lot of things, but Laissez-faire Capitalism most certainly did not resolve it.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487524]I've never once referred to any New World Order. The sad fact is that even if some nefarious group were trying to plot such a takeover they'd at least recognize the infallibility of the implications of socialism unlike the socialists who sincerely advocate it. [editline]8th March 2011[/editline] [img_thumb]http://www.noahmallin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/weather_underground3.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] He means the "If I can't explain that to you". Not the new world order shit.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487605] You aren't reading. Don't show up into a thread and neglect the former posts only to act like I'm being unclear.[/QUOTE] "no i'm not being insane and random, you're just not reading" no seriously what the fuck does the scientific field of ecology have to do with the weather underground and don't be like "no i meant ecology movement" just stop right there cuz that makes just as little sense
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28487624]Capitalism doesn't solve war. How the hell [B]could [/B]Capitalism solve war? And as for the poverty, that came from a lot of things, but Laissez-faire Capitalism most certainly did not resolve it.[/QUOTE] How would laissez faire capitalism not fix it? It's completely responsible for any of the improvement at the time. Capitalism gives everyone regardless of their monetary status the option to do things for a cost or to work and succeed! No matter their luck! And under democratic socialism or any other form of socialism, these people would not have succeeded, they would have been held back by the complete lack of a market and would have to submit their property to the government for any reason and everyone has to do this, and the taxes are really bad which stops me from being able to live because in a captilast society there'd be no corruption and no monopolies to control what a product costs! Not like in socialism, where the government determines it and actively tries to fuck the people! [/strider*]
[QUOTE=Strider*;28434202]The legitimate role for government is to protect the rights of free individuals and their private property.[/QUOTE] You seem to think that government and individuals are separate entities. Governments are comprised of individuals. You seem to support a completely free concept of ownership, yet with unregulated economic markets you'll often wind up with effective tyranny and loss of rights anyways as companies and individuals grow so powerful they can effectively abuse the rights of others without repercussion. So you wind up with individuals running oligarchys instead of governments.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28487665]How would laissez faire capitalism not fix it? It's completely responsible for any of the improvement at the time. Capitalism gives everyone regardless of their monetary status the option to do things for a cost or to work and succeed! No matter their luck! And under democratic socialism or any other form of socialism, these people would not have succeeded, they would have been held back by the complete lack of a market and would have to submit their property to the government for any reason and everyone has to do this, and the taxes are really bad which stops me from being able to live because in a captilast society there'd be no corruption and no monopolies to control what a product costs! Not like in socialism, where the government determines it and actively tries to fuck the people! [/strider*][/QUOTE] You know what, sure. Strider, one day all the Socialists are going to come for your house, rights, and whatever other property you may own. What are you going to do about it?
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28487675]You seem to think that government and individuals are separate entities. Governments are comprised of individuals. You seem to support a completely free concept of ownership, yet with unregulated economic markets you'll often wind up with effective tyranny and loss of rights anyways as companies and individuals grow so powerful they can effectively abuse the rights of others without repercussion.[/QUOTE] Corporations = made of people government = made of evil corrupt people trying to fuck me. [/strider*]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28487295]Wow, this is just getting funnier. I don't even have to argue you, you don't even acknowledge any points, you just act like you're the only one on earth... [editline]7th March 2011[/editline] It's like what anyone else considers philosophy goes right in one ear and out the other, then you babble on about how you're right. Your world views are your world views, there's very little historical evidence to back you up, and there's very little to tell you, you believe in objectivity, you believe in monopolies are for the good of the people, you believe that each and every man lives a life truly as an island, which I, and every single other psychologist alive worth a damn would tell you is full of shit. And as for a book written by the "founder of economics", I just have to say, not even as a real argument, just because you found something, doesn't mean you know shit about it. Freud was the father of modern psychology, but no body has ever been more wrong about things than freud.[/QUOTE] The current state of psychology is deplorable, it hasn't even took it's first steps into infancy. Why do you assume that you, a psychologist, know what drives man? I love how you talk shit about Freud yet you from what I can tell completely advocate his notion that man alone is a helpless and instinct driven animal. Yet again you're misunderstanding what, everyman is an island, really implies. It does not mean that man should live on his own without the achievements of others, it means that man is a contractual not a coercive animal. [editline]8th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafanx13;28487624]Capitalism doesn't solve war. How the hell [B]could [/B]Capitalism solve war? And as for the poverty, that came from a lot of things, but Laissez-faire Capitalism most certainly did not resolve it.[/QUOTE] Here's how capitalism can solve war. Take France and England, two countries who have hated each other for centuries. Yet today they do not fight, why? Because it is much more favorable to trade with your enemy and live a prosperous and productive life than to fight them.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487697]The current state of psychology is deplorable, it hasn't even took it's first steps into infancy. Why do you assume that you, a psychologist, know what drives man? I love how you talk shit about Freud yet you from what I can tell completely advocate his notion that man alone is a helpless and instinct driven animal. Yet again you're misunderstanding what, everyman is an island, really implies. It does not mean that man should live on his own without the achievements of others, it means that man is a contractual not a coercive animal.[/QUOTE] HAHAHAHHAHA WE'RE CONTRACTUAL!? HAHAHAHA Oh my goodness. That's just, well that's just hilarious. The current state of psychology is actually far ahead of what you think it is. While we don't know everything, and while we are still learning lots, there's still more than you what you say there is. You also say monopolies are good for people, so... Anyhow, I never said "helpless instinctive animal" or anything even close to that or anything implying that. That's more words you've put in my mouth for your arguments sake, now, what I have said, is that every one is influenced by everyone else, highly influenced. I do believe I've mentioned this before, but there's no real debate about this at any level, you, as a person and an entity, are influenced, shaped, and created by everyone else you ever meet. You change dynamically as you go about your days and this is not a conscious, shaped decision or path. The fact you think it is? That's absurd.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28487675]You seem to think that government and individuals are separate entities. Governments are comprised of individuals. You seem to support a completely free concept of ownership, yet with unregulated economic markets you'll often wind up with effective tyranny and loss of rights anyways as companies and individuals grow so powerful they can effectively abuse the rights of others without repercussion. So you wind up with individuals running oligarchys instead of governments.[/QUOTE] Governments exist to restrict the latter from happening, that is their purpose and it must be concrete and objective. Government and the economy are separate entities, what we need is a separation of economy and state just as we pursued the separation of church and state.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28487694]Corporations = made of people government = made of evil corrupt people trying to fuck me. [/strider*][/QUOTE] His :words: aside, the deep logic behind it is quite funny. I think he'd totally be in support of somebody forming an oligarchy, as long s its formed of these "individuals" I keep hearing about (the same ones that run the governments I guess) really the only difference between his philosphy and complete and utter anarchism are that there should be a rule of law to protect people who would glady exploit everybody else.
i'm seriously trying to understand your arguments but none of it makes any sense, it's just loose quotes strung together to form some kind of narrative about capitalism which is totally false because you are utterly butchering the arguments a proper argument for capitalism would be: capitalism is a good model for economic growth because it puts power into the hands of people and no-one else. in other systems price and quality is not controlled by the consumer which often leaves the choices out of their hands. capitalism removes this control and allows all people to produce what they wish and sell it to the people who wish to buy it. this makes sure the proper product that people want is the one that they get, creating an economic growth system and putting power into the consumer.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487729]Governments exist to restrict the latter from happening, that is their purpose and it must be concrete and objective. Government and the economy are separate entities, what we need is a separation of economy and state just as we pursued the separation of church and state.[/QUOTE] ...Again, objective view of governments that isn't necessarily true, and definitely isn't the only answer, as is clearly demonstrated by the variety of successful governments.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28487729]Governments exist to restrict the latter from happening, that is their purpose and it must be concrete and objective. Government and the economy are separate entities, what we need is a separation of economy and state just as we pursued the separation of church and state.[/QUOTE] The economy is not an entity either. Neither are entities. You're objectifying everything without cause which is why your logic is so convoluted.
you are trying to set up capitalism as some kind of individualist anti-government thing. [B]this is utterly wrong [/B]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28487728]HAHAHAHHAHA WE'RE CONTRACTUAL!? HAHAHAHA Oh my goodness. That's just, well that's just hilarious. The current state of psychology is actually far ahead of what you think it is. While we don't know everything, and while we are still learning lots, there's still more than you what you say there is. You also say monopolies are good for people, so... Anyhow, I never said "helpless instinctive animal" or anything even close to that or anything implying that. That's more words you've put in my mouth for your arguments sake, now, what I have said, is that every one is influenced by everyone else, highly influenced. I do believe I've mentioned this before, but there's no real debate about this at any level, you, as a person and an entity, are influenced, shaped, and created by everyone else you ever meet. You change dynamically as you go about your days and this is not a conscious, shaped decision or path. The fact you think it is? That's absurd.[/QUOTE] You don't believe man is contractual? You somehow think man is and should be more influenced by force than shared interests? You're sounding more like Freud by the second. Everyman is an island implies that his highest and first value should be himself, not absurd at all.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;28487739]His :words: aside, the deep logic behind it is quite funny. I think he'd totally be in support of somebody forming an oligarchy, as long s its formed of these "individuals" I keep hearing about (the same ones that run the governments I guess) really the only difference between his philosphy and complete and utter anarchism are that there should be a rule of law to protect people who would glady exploit everybody else.[/QUOTE] Not even, he doesn't want any sort of business regulation which would lead to absolute and total fucking of almost everyone. Just because "competition" exists is meaningless. He has not gotten the power of advertising.
whatever everyone just ignore my posts though who's the one who studied marxism and capitalism in a college, *points at self*
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