[QUOTE=The mouse;52245264]This manifesto is disturbingly similar in rhetoric to Labour's 1997 manifesto
Like this is a line from Labour's 1997 Manifesto
and this is an extract from the Conservatives manifesto[/QUOTE]
Well yeah because people like that style of politics and it wins lot of votes. Nobody wants mad libertarian Toryism any more than people want socialist Labour. I don't see why you have an issue with the idea of meritocracy really.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52245337]Well yeah because people like that style of politics and it wins lot of votes. Nobody wants mad libertarian Toryism any more than people want socialist Labour. I don't see why you have an issue with the idea of meritocracy really.[/QUOTE]
Socialist Labour? Where?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52245337]Well yeah because people like that style of politics and it wins lot of votes. Nobody wants mad libertarian Toryism any more than people want socialist Labour. I don't see why you have an issue with the idea of meritocracy really.[/QUOTE]
I don't have a problem with a meritocracy personally, I have a problem with the idea that the UK is (entirely) a meritocracy. Right now hard work and luck can overcome class, sure, but how well you do in life is still overwhelmingly influenced by where you live, your wealth and who your parents know.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52245337]Well yeah because people like that style of politics and it wins lot of votes. Nobody wants mad libertarian Toryism any more than people want socialist Labour. I don't see why you have an issue with the idea of meritocracy really.[/QUOTE]
Well my point was more that people accuse Theresa May of being some kind of super right wing Thatcher, when in reality she's almost the exact opposite. My problem isn't with meritocracy, it's with this government's idea that you need to micromanage society by spending billion upon billions of pounds in order to achieve it.
[QUOTE=El Burro;52244863]Who even gets breakfast at school, beside those at boarding schools?
[/QUOTE]
A lot of children these days either do not have a breakfast or their families are too poor to afford it otherwise. Hell there is always a few stories almost every summer of parents struggling to feed their kids during the summer break as when the where at school they'd get their lunch/breakfast provided to them.
Their goals and the means they're going to employ to reach those goals are even less viable than the Labour manifesto which people are shouting from the rooftops about being made in fantasy land. Why does British politics have to be such a clusterfuck where policy is actually completely irrelevant?
[quote]Develop the shale industry in Britain
...
Almost every car and van to be zero-emission by 2050 with £600m investment by 2020 to help achieve it.[/quote]
Don't these things contradict one another?
[QUOTE]Scrap free school lunches for infants in England[/QUOTE]
Anyone care to justify this because these seems REALLY scummy to me
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52245736]Their goals and the means they're going to employ to reach those goals are even less viable than the Labour manifesto which people are shouting from the rooftops about being made in fantasy land. Why does British politics have to be such a clusterfuck where policy is actually completely irrelevant?[/QUOTE]
Largely because people want simple answers to complex questions. Theresa May is the embodiment of replacing nuance with soundbites. Corbyn is the exact opposite; ask him a question and you'll get a long and full answer which wasn't preprepared by a PR team. The fact that it causes him to lose the PR battle is a pretty damning indictment of the nature of political engagement.
[editline]18th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;52245782]Anyone care to justify this because these seems REALLY scummy to me[/QUOTE]
The justification is that they're using the money to fund free lunches and etc iirc.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;52245839]The justification is that they're using the money to fund free lunches and etc iirc.[/QUOTE]
That's fucking stupid, there's probably at least a few other ways to achieve this without taking away lunches from other children.
[quote]Introduce T-Levels[/quote]
the fuck is a T level
[editline]18th May 2017[/editline]
after some googling it appears it's basically just a BTEC
also less money for "wealthier" pensioners and no free school meals? this is truly a batty man's manifesto
but ~strong and stable~
Don't the Republicans pull that voter ID shit in America to suppress the vote lol???
[QUOTE=IAreLegend;52245919]the fuck is a T level
[editline]18th May 2017[/editline]
after some googling it appears it's basically just a BTEC
also less money for "wealthier" pensioners and no free school meals? this is truly a batty man's manifesto[/QUOTE]
[url]http://schoolsweek.co.uk/what-are-t-levels/[/url]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/39212506/t-levels-what-are-they[/url]
[QUOTE]‘T-Levels’ is the name that has been given by the media to government’s planned overhaul of technical education. Between now and 2022, 15 new pathways will be developed in 15 sector areas where substantial technical training is required to progress into employment. These courses have also been referred to as Tech Levels.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=The Genie;52245779]So basically they want to fuck over the young, the old, and the working class. Who do they expect to vote for them then? They should be congratulated on managing to include at least one policy that pisses off each group of voters.[/QUOTE]
I'm currently at uni and we have a lot of tories here. Everyone votes Tory now because we've been convinced they know what they're doing and nobody else does. A necessary evil, I guess, even though they can't even do austerity right.
[QUOTE=The Genie;52246986][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkeys_voting_for_Christmas[/url]
Why vote for a party that doesn't​ give a single shit about you? Raising tuition fees, cutting grants, smashing job and academic prospects through Brexit, the list goes on.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but you live in this country and you know how the general public sees it: the tories are the brain and the labour are the heart. Even though the Tory economic policy is contradictory and dumb as fuck, it doesn't matter because people believe they're right and labour are wrong.
Reality doesn't even matter anymore, it's all about perception.
[QUOTE=IAreLegend;52245919]the fuck is a T level
[editline]18th May 2017[/editline]
after some googling it appears it's basically just a BTEC
also less money for "wealthier" pensioners and no free school meals? this is truly a batty man's manifesto[/QUOTE]
Taking away fuel allowance for wealthy pensioners was a labour policy in the last election. It's perfectly fair, there's no reason why pensioners with massive pensions need fuel allowance.
i'm honestly surprised by it, the Tories usually love pandering to pensioners
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52246970]I'm currently at uni and we have a lot of tories here. Everyone votes Tory now because we've been convinced they know what they're doing and nobody else does. A necessary evil, I guess, even though they can't even do austerity right.[/QUOTE]
as a group of individuals with a decent standard of education i'd have expected better from them than to vote for the people who are literally trying to fuck you as a demographic over, everyone else does know what they're doing but with labour and libdems' economic fairness policies they're getting blasted by the media as a result, which likes to use "public opinion" and "media opinion" interchangably. corbyn's a hundred times more competent than may because he's an actual politician who works for the good of his constituents and not for the power, paycheck or airtime, but that dickhead murdoch will try convincing you otherwise lest he lose a few million pounds that is less than 1% of his fortune.
[editline]19th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52247368]I agree, but you live in this country and you know how the general public sees it: the tories are the brain and the labour are the heart. Even though the Tory economic policy is contradictory and dumb as fuck, it doesn't matter because people believe they're right and labour are wrong.
Reality doesn't even matter anymore, it's all about perception.[/QUOTE]
if you're voting tory and you're remotely aware of the deaths of 30,000 elderly and disabled as a direct result of benefits sanctions introduced by the conservative party there is blood on your hands, if you're not aware you're still complicit in manslaughter by enabling it through ignorance. there's no justification for voting for these [URL="https://pastebin.com/NsX5Z9KT"]literal fascists[/URL]
Mate, I am not voting Tory, I hate them. I'm just trying to explain the state we're in where the Tories are infallible in the eyes of many and Labour are irredeemable. Labour and Tories could swap their manifestos, and most people would still vote for the same party they were before.
I'm moaning about a state of ignorance and apathy that got the Tories in a perpetual cycle of uncontested power, not justifying voting Tory.
I wonder where all the "where is the money tree?" people who popped up when Labour published their fully costed manifesto have gone.
This Tory manifesto is an uncosted poorly thought out shambles.
They'll probably win anyway but still... it's pisspoor. They consistently including the current "economically competent" government borrow far more than Labour and pay back far less and still decimate public services. People seem to think the opposite though for some reason.
Giddyup to dystopia
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;52249354]I wonder where all the "where is the money tree?" people who popped up when Labour published their fully costed manifesto have gone.
This Tory manifesto is an uncosted poorly thought out shambles.
They'll probably win anyway but still... it's pisspoor. They consistently including the current "economically competent" government borrow far more than Labour and pay back far less and still decimate public services. People seem to think the opposite though for some reason.
Giddyup to dystopia[/QUOTE]
To be fair, [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/6bvp4p/ed_conway_tory_manifesto_is_pretty_much/dhpxclc/"]according to the IFS[/URL], because there aren't any real changes in economic policy, noting costings on the manifesto wasn't really necessary.
[QUOTE=Rolond Returns;52248604]
if you're voting tory and you're remotely aware of the deaths of 30,000 elderly and disabled as a direct result of benefits sanctions introduced by the conservative party there is blood on your hands, if you're not aware you're still complicit in manslaughter by enabling it through ignorance. there's no justification for voting for these [URL="https://pastebin.com/NsX5Z9KT"]literal fascists[/URL][/QUOTE]
Is there anything to back this up?
From the Sunday papers and polls ([I]I know, I know...[/I]), it's looking like this manifesto has somewhat bombed - particularly on social care.
[img]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DATC31GXoAA_55I.jpg:large[/img]
[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/39990986]In response:[/url]
[QUOTE]The Work and Pensions Secretary said: "We have set out the policy, which we are not going to look at again."[/QUOTE]
Time for Corbyn to make some serious [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHDmskeGARk]noise.[/url]
[QUOTE=The mouse;52249441]To be fair, [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/6bvp4p/ed_conway_tory_manifesto_is_pretty_much/dhpxclc/"]according to the IFS[/URL], because there aren't any real changes in economic policy, noting costings on the manifesto wasn't really necessary.[/QUOTE]
They haven't ever costed properly though, since 2 terms of Tories have proved things aren't how they should be. Tory economic policy fascinates me because it relies entirely on the ignorance of their voter base: people like fiscal responsibility so they claim they'll play it fiscally contractionary. However, people don't like their services cut or taxes raised, so they only cut the services and raise taxes that will affect people who don't vote for them. Then boost funding for their buddies, foreign powers they want to get into bed with, and the people who do vote for them consistently. Then, when they don't meet targets because they're pretty much just running on a treadmill, they just change the targets so they're a bit further away.
They've managed to pull this all off because for some reason we've got it in our heads that Labour don't know how to do economy but Tories do. I don't really agree with either party on these issues, but it's clear to me that Labour are intent on benefiting the British people whilst the Tories are intent on benefiting themselves. Whether or not Labour will benefit us is another question.
I got a bit lost there but basically: because the Tory economic plan is messy and contradictory, they should be costing, and people should be watching, but they won't. Apologies for having no faith in the electorate.
Wait what, there are kids who don't know times tables by heart?
What do they teach in math class then?
[QUOTE=MissZoey;52245954]but ~strong and stable~
Don't the Republicans pull that voter ID shit in America to suppress the vote lol???[/QUOTE]
I don't think there is anything wrong with Voter ID but it depends entirely on how it's implemented. The Republican method in many states is garbage.
I see no problem with voter ID, either government issued or passport/other form of ID.
[QUOTE=Complifusedv2;52257267]I see no problem with voter ID, either government issued or passport/other form of ID.[/QUOTE]
If you have voter ID it has to be free, otherwise you're attaching a cost to voting which will disenfranchise disadvantaged groups. Sure, £35 for a provisional license doesn't seem like much but in America it consistently reduces voter turnout.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;52257282]If you have voter ID it has to be free, otherwise you're attaching a cost to voting which will disenfranchise disadvantaged groups. Sure, £35 for a provisional license doesn't seem like much but in America it consistently reduces voter turnout.[/QUOTE]
And that's exactly what the conservatives want, the less poor people voting the better chances they have of dominating every election
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;52257282]If you have voter ID it has to be free, otherwise you're attaching a cost to voting which will disenfranchise disadvantaged groups. Sure, £35 for a provisional license doesn't seem like much but in America it consistently reduces voter turnout.[/QUOTE]
£35 is a weeks worth of food.
[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52257334]£35 is a weeks worth of food.[/QUOTE]
That's what I mean. To the average tory voter that's pocket change so it seems inconceivable that it could prevent someone from voting, but to others it's the difference between eating and not.
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