[QUOTE=Judas;48866691]america once again the only car manufacturer worth anything[/QUOTE]
Truely. Let's bring back the electric car decades ahead of everyone else then let's kill it sharply.
Just think we could of had theses long before Tesla's.
[IMG]http://assets.blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/06/033173.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Tmaxx;48866910]this is a big deal. I wonder how it will impact the car world?[/QUOTE]
I don't know worldwide, but I can tell you one thing: It's the end of any progress VW may have made to get diesel cars sold in America. VW was [i]juuust[/i] starting to break past the stigma that had clung to them for decades and then this broke. Ok, VAG bad, everyone else good? [i]Nope they're cheating too.[/i]
The only way it could get worse for diesel in America is if Ford, Chevy and Dodge are cheating their 3/4 ton and 1 tons through.
[editline]10th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Morgen;48869503]Once the cost comes down a bit in a couple of years there's little reason to buy an ICE or Hybrid car of similar cost and style.[/QUOTE]
Oh, there's plenty. Like, say, this big ol' punch to the wallet: Your battery pack will live 5-10 years. Tops. And to replace it you'll shell out as much as the car's worth. AKA nobody's gonna fucking do that and these things are going to overwhelm scrapyards when people condemn them to the junkheap rather than pay out the nose to replace the battery.
[editline]10th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48868668]It's literally the second biggest factor in places like the United States, only behind electricity generation. Yes a lot of that comes from older cars only meeting older tests, but that's not to say their can't be room for improvement, because their certainly is, as hybrids have already proved.[/QUOTE]
Even if it's a third of the total pollution output, you can't deny that cars have been scapegoated to hell and back while every other source is almost completely ignored. Where's the stringent emissions regulations onon, preferably outright ban of, coal power in the west? Where's the emissions regulations on container ships and industrial diesel power? We clamp down on the latter, ban the former, and we can outright ignore auto emissions. Completely. We could leave those regulations exactly right the fuck where they are now and we'd be good to go. Yet we ignore them, we go after cars.
We cold turkey coal power in the US and our emissions are well beyond the targets set forth in the last yuppiemeeting. Yet we pretty much let the coal lobby go unchecked while bitching out carmakers. Why is this? It's [i]easier[/i] and more effective to phase coal power out over, say, ten years. That alots plenty of time for power companies to change over to different plants that produce significantly less, sometimes 100% less, and that also removes the emissions from mining the stuff to boot.
[QUOTE=TestECull;48871926]Oh, there's plenty. Like, say, this big ol' punch to the wallet: Your battery pack will live 5-10 years. Tops. And to replace it you'll shell out as much as the car's worth. AKA nobody's gonna fucking do that and these things are going to overwhelm scrapyards when people condemn them to the junkheap rather than pay out the nose to replace the battery.
[/QUOTE]
Tesla are actively working on making their cars be able to last 1 million miles. They can also recycle the batteries as well, currently they guarantee the battery will work and maintain range for at least 8 years and that guarantee is not limited by miles.
In the states on average people buy a new car every 5 years anyway. Once the Model 3 is out the economic benefits will be quite apparent to compared to similar price cars. Electric is considerably cheaper than petrol even in the US, and in Europe it's insane.
[QUOTE=Morgen;48872082]Tesla are actively working on making their cars be able to last 1 million miles.[/quote]
Good luck with that is all I have to say.
[quote] They can also recycle the batteries as well, currently they guarantee the battery will work and maintain range for at least 8 years and that guarantee is not limited by miles.[/quote]
Hah, Elon Musk's head is so far up his ass on this it's hard to take him seriously sometimes. Current battery tech just isn't anywhere near that guarantee.
[quote]In the states on average people buy a new car every 5 years anyway.[/quote]
Which is convenient for the 10-15% of us that can afford to buy a [i]brand[/i] new car. The majority of us are buying the cars that 10-15% sold off for some inexplicable reason, and that's just not feasible when the secondhand cars we're choosing from are sitting there in dealer lots awaiting expensive repairs before they've ever gotten a second owner.
The used car market is going to suffer the most because of popular battery electrics. It subsists off certified pre-owned cars, which are the 30-40 thousand dollar cars people trade in every 5-6 years because they're desperate to always have a car payment or something, and those cars just won't be worth trying to resell because the battery pack will cost too much to swap out. Nobody'll pay $25,000 for a used car that should only be going for $17,500 but has to recoup a $5000 battery replacement and the labor to perform it. And of course a bit extra profit because dealerships.
[quote] Once the Model 3 is out the economic benefits will be quite apparent to compared to similar price cars. Electric is considerably cheaper than petrol even in the US, and in Europe it's insane.[/QUOTE]
What economic benefits? Any savings you recoup in fuel is thrown out the fucking window every 5-10 years, whether through buying a new car or spending a fortune replacing the battery pack. You, in the end, don't save a penny. Ya might as well just buy an ICE car for five grand or so every 5 years. Or, idunno, stop treating cars as disposable and keep it for as long as it's got useful life, which for most ICE cars made in the last 30 or 40 years is somewhere around 300,000 miles and 30 years old. Not having a car payment is a bigger saving than trading buying gasoline for replacing batteries/cars often.
[QUOTE=Judas;48866691]america once again the only car manufacturer worth anything[/QUOTE]
I like Honda and Nissan. But I don't really know anything about cars. My Versa gets 40mpg so there's that.
[QUOTE=Lebofly;48870080]Opel is Holden in Australia[/QUOTE]
And Vauxhall in the UK
You aussies get the best shit ever with Holden. As if Japan being a boat ride away wasn't enough.
[editline]10th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48872445]I like Honda and Nissan. But I don't really know anything about cars. My Versa gets 40mpg so there's that.[/QUOTE]
Whenever people say America in terms of cars, I always remember the 1 or 2 mpg Ford GT and big thirsty V8s that make as much horsepower as a 1.6L :v:
Apples and oranges and a bit of exageration, yes, but still
[QUOTE=TestECull;48872186]Good luck with that is all I have to say.
Hah, Elon Musk's head is so far up his ass on this it's hard to take him seriously sometimes. Current battery tech just isn't anywhere near that guarantee.
Which is convenient for the 10-15% of us that can afford to buy a [i]brand[/i] new car. The majority of us are buying the cars that 10-15% sold off for some inexplicable reason, and that's just not feasible when the secondhand cars we're choosing from are sitting there in dealer lots awaiting expensive repairs before they've ever gotten a second owner.
The used car market is going to suffer the most because of popular battery electrics. It subsists off certified pre-owned cars, which are the 30-40 thousand dollar cars people trade in every 5-6 years because they're desperate to always have a car payment or something, and those cars just won't be worth trying to resell because the battery pack will cost too much to swap out. Nobody'll pay $25,000 for a used car that should only be going for $17,500 but has to recoup a $5000 battery replacement and the labor to perform it. And of course a bit extra profit because dealerships.
What economic benefits? Any savings you recoup in fuel is thrown out the fucking window every 5-10 years, whether through buying a new car or spending a fortune replacing the battery pack. You, in the end, don't save a penny. Ya might as well just buy an ICE car for five grand or so every 5 years. Or, idunno, stop treating cars as disposable and keep it for as long as it's got useful life, which for most ICE cars made in the last 30 or 40 years is somewhere around 300,000 miles and 30 years old. Not having a car payment is a bigger saving than trading buying gasoline for replacing batteries/cars often.[/QUOTE]
Tesla has been defying what people think they can do since they started. Tesla have that guarantee backed up in a legal contract with everyone who buys the Model S and people who buy a certified pre owned car.
Tesla also doesn't deal with dealerships and instead does everything themselves. The car phones home to tell Tesla how much it has degraded, and if it's degrading faster than expected Tesla will call you and replace the battery pack for free.
Obviously you can't compare a Model S ($75k+) or even the Model 3 ($35k) to a $5k ICE car. But if you are looking to get a car in that price range anyway then you will save by going with a BEV. Battery degradation could be a problem, but the cars haven't really been on the road long enough to tell yet. However a BEV has a lot less moving parts than an ICE car so it's much less likely to have problems with the powertrain.
Let assume that battery degradation will be a problem though. You could get a luxury car, pay it off in 5 years and then just change the battery out for the price of a cheap ICE car every 5 - 10 years. The rest of the car outside of the battery will probably last significantly longer than it's ICE counterpart.
Thats why you buy a good reliable car, instead of "whatever, I just want it to go from A to B"
I didn't choose my shitty car, but the damn thing just keeps on going. I've seen the same exact model on sale for 1000 euros, with 900.000km
That means something.
Plus, parts are cheap as fuck. I fucked up the rear axel, and could have gotten one for as cheap as 70 euros. The one I got was 120 but already had some other parts attached.
What I don't get is how some people buy brand new bimmers every once in a while. How?! Those things cost 50k+! And why!?
[QUOTE=kweh;48874181]Thats why you buy a good reliable car, instead of "whatever, I just want it to go from A to B"
I didn't choose my shitty car, but the damn thing just keeps on going. I've seen the same exact model on sale for 1000 euros, with 900.000km
That means something.
Plus, parts are cheap as fuck. I fucked up the rear axel, and could have gotten one for as cheap as 70 euros. The one I got was 120 but already had some other parts attached.
What I don't get is how some people buy brand new bimmers every once in a while. How?! Those things cost 50k+! And why!?[/QUOTE]
Well yeah you can get a car like that for cheap as chips but a luxury car undoubtedly offers a lot more.
Better safety features, tons more comfort, lots of driver assistance features and just overall a much better experience.
It's expected that Tesla will integrate autopilot into the Model 3 (but not officially confirmed), which will be for middle class buyers. We are probably still a decade or so away from seeing viable BEVs coming into the economy class of cars.
[QUOTE=Morgen;48874524]Well yeah you can get a car like that for cheap as chips but a luxury car undoubtedly offers a lot more.
Better safety features, tons more comfort, lots of driver assistance features and just overall a much better experience.
It's expected that Tesla will integrate autopilot into the Model 3 (but not officially confirmed), which will be for middle class buyers. We are probably still a decade or so away from seeing viable BEVs coming into the economy class of cars.[/QUOTE]
More than a decade away from widespread use imo, which is a shame.
[QUOTE=kweh;48875353]More than a decade away from widespread use imo, which is a shame.[/QUOTE]
I imagine it will start taking off with the Model 3. But we will see I guess. Having no local emissions from cars would be great in cities.
[QUOTE=kweh;48873117]And Vauxhall in the UK
You aussies get the best shit ever with Holden. As if Japan being a boat ride away wasn't enough[/QUOTE]
Even better than Japan being a boat ride away, many Japanese models including what is referred to as the JDM have been available here through dealerships whereas the rest of the world never officially got them. I think the rear-wheel drive R33 (GTS and GTS-T) and R34 (25GT and GT-T) Nissan Skylines were only sold in Japan, Australia and New Zealand. It's partly why Australian Motorsport is the way it is today; the R32 GT-R absolutely demolished everything on the track in the Australian Touring Car Championship (as did the Mazda RX-7 ten years before then), so Ford and Holden lobbied CAMS to evolve the series into the silhouette series it is today (V8 Supercars).
However it was never good news for Ford and GM, because Australia's car market with very-lax import restrictions is pretty much the most competitive car market [i]in the entire world[/i]. We have local production, we get everything from South-East Asia (Korea and Japan), everything from Europe whether it's British, German, Italian or Swedish, and we're starting to get more and more from America especially with Chrysler pushing harder into Australia. Local production of cars will end in 2017 here because they Ford and Holden just couldn't keep up.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48875636]Even better than Japan being a boat ride away, many Japanese models including what is referred to as the JDM have been available here through dealerships whereas the rest of the world never officially got them. I think the rear-wheel drive R33 (GTS and GTS-T) and R34 (25GT and GT-T) Nissan Skylines were only sold in Japan, Australia and New Zealand. It's partly why Australian Motorsport is the way it is today; the R32 GT-R absolutely demolished everything on the track in the Australian Touring Car Championship (as did the Mazda RX-7 ten years before then), so Ford and Holden lobbied CAMS to evolve the series into the silhouette series it is today (V8 Supercars).
However it was never good news for Ford and GM, because Australia's car market with very-lax import restrictions is pretty much the most competitive car market [i]in the entire world[/i]. We have local production, we get everything from South-East Asia (Korea and Japan), everything from Europe whether it's British, German, Italian or Swedish, and we're starting to get more and more from America especially with Chrysler pushing harder into Australia. Local production of cars will end in 2017 here because they Ford and Holden just couldn't keep up.[/QUOTE]
That good? Woah.
The best part about it imo is how cheap parts and import are.
We pay out the ass for parts here. Even if they are european. Good stuff costs double compared to the uk for example.
[QUOTE=kweh;48878182]That good? Woah.
The best part about it imo is how cheap parts and import are.
We pay out the ass for parts here. Even if they are european. Good stuff costs double compared to the uk for example.[/QUOTE]
For instance there are plenty of Nissan Skyline R34 25GTs and R33 GTSs here to go around. They are popular with younger drivers who aren't allowed to drive vehicles with a peak output of more-than 130kW per tonne (they each produce like 140kW so it's around 110kW/t). And then they are rear-wheel drive too and that's always fun. I was actually contemplating one (then I became boring and got a Ford Falcon XR6 instead), many go for around $8,000 which is a very reasonable price, but I didn't want to get a car that's probably been flogged for all of its life and tbh I probably would do the same haha. There are also lots of Silvias, Supras, MR2s and RX-8s too. I've even seen a few Toyota Sprinter AE86s.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48878417]For instance there are plenty of Nissan Skyline R34 25GTs and R33 GTSs here to go around. They are popular with younger drivers who aren't allowed to drive vehicles with a peak output of more-than 130kW per tonne (they each produce like 140kW so it's around 110kW/t). And then they are rear-wheel drive too and that's always fun. I was actually contemplating one (then I became boring and got a Ford Falcon XR6 instead), many go for around $8,000 which is a very reasonable price, but I didn't want to get a car that's probably been flogged for all of its life and tbh I probably would do the same haha. There are also lots of Silvias, Supras, MR2s and RX-8s too. I've even seen a few Toyota Sprinter AE86s.[/QUOTE]
Thats automotive heaven if I ever saw one...
If I were to find a supra here, it would have 1000hp and cost upwards of 30k, if not 70-80k.
Silvias always show up modded for at least 12k. MR2s are usually somewhat cheap, but you mostly get the last version out and a few of the ones before, but never the "mk1".
RX8s are expensive, starting at 11k, and Skylines of any kind are basically not existent, and when they show up, they're modded up the ass and require import from the uk.
All we have are diesel ibizaFR that fart out big puffs of smoke (which go from like 7 to almost 20k for thr best and newest models), peugeot 106 and citroen saxo that make about 120hp and are usually messed up in some way, which are actually somewhat cheap because you have to work on them, and loadsa civics.
We also obviously got the usual german giants, bmw vw audi and mercs, but those are expensive.
But I wouldn't deny an audi TT...
In short, we only get the japanese cars that everyone else gets, all the euro economic shit cars for cheap, and anything that has a bit more power is automatically expensive as fuck.
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