Chelsea Manning to receive military 'gender treatment' - Polidicks

I'm still wondering why it's so hard to refer to someone as the gender of their liking. Who really gives a shit? People are people.

[QUOTE=Zoran;45430157]I'm still wondering why it's so hard to refer to someone as the gender of their liking. Who really gives a shit? People are people.[/QUOTE] because "but I'm too used to calling you by your original gender bawww"

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;45430212]because "but I'm too used to calling you by your original gender bawww"[/QUOTE] Tough shit. That's hardly an excuse to be an asshole about someone's gender.

[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;45429006]My birth name is indeed unisex, while my chosen name is male.[/QUOTE] Chosen name? The fuck?

[QUOTE=Nasal_Spray;45428695]If a man looks and sounds like a man, I'll refer to them as "him". If a woman looks and sounds like a woman, I'll refer to them as "her". If a man looks and sounds like a woman, I'll refer to them as "her". If a woman looks and sounds like a man, I'll refer to them as "him". What really gets my goat is when people try and force others to refer to them as the opposite gender (or worse, some made up gender) when they still look and sound like the gender they don't identify with. Makes you look like an idiot when you're talking to others about them, especially people who don't know them or just don't care for all this SJW shit.[/QUOTE] Listen here internet tough guy. You may think this is just SJW bullshit but its just to mask that you're too god damn lazy (or stupid) to learn. So I'm going to make you learn. Firstly, the [url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.U8ltAI1dWmQ]brains of transgender individuals resemble the brains of the gender they identify as.[/url] This means that male-to-females have a female brain but a male body. Female-to-males have a male brain but a female body. There's no definitive evidence as to how this defect occurs. And I use defect because it basically is a birth defect, despite it being mental. That right there shows you that transgenderism is indeed physiological. The idea floating around is its caused during the development during the womb (obviously). As you may know, we all start off as girls in the womb. When the fetus is destined to be male, there are two stages where the fetus is fed large quantities of testosterone. These two stages occur at different times, and one goes to the brain and one goes to the body. It's suspected that this anomaly occurs when the fetus gets one of the stages but not the other. For example, a fetus that gets the dose to the brain but not the body ends up developing a male-structured brain while their body develops like a female. That's an FtM. It's vice versa for MtFs, who get the proper dose to the body but not the brain causing them to develop a male body but the brain develops as female. So, as a result, someone who "looks like a man" actually has a female brain. Would you call a female a man? No. Would you call a male a girl? No. It doesn't matter what we look like. That's how our brains are wired. That is who we are. That is how we see ourselves. When you do what you do, it hurts. So what you're doing is being a complete and total ignorant asshole. Next time, open a fucking book for once in your life before you let loose on your keyboard. Thank you.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45430267]Chosen name? The fuck?[/QUOTE] You know, people are actually allowed to change their names. It's a weird concept, I know. Maybe go to your City Hall and read up about it.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;45429821]there's nothing special or complex about respecting one's preferred pronouns. you just do it. if you're trying to overthink it then i kinda wonder how you function around other people[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Combineguy;45429864]since when is respecting the wishes of other people "SJW shit" it's kind of hilarious that you're concerned about looking like an idiot for addressing people the way they ask you to when you're making posts like this[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Pawnstick;45429897]that's good to know, internet tough guy. but what would you actually do in real life? probably say nothing, because you're just a baby.[/QUOTE] You all seem to be forgetting that the issue comes into play when talking about the person to other people, particularly people who don't know the person too well or who don't agree with transgenderism. If people make no to effort to make themselves into the gender that they want, then I don't see why I should show them any respect in this area. If I start referring to Wendy, the scantily clad bar maid as a he, people are going to look at me funny. Even if they can get past that, I can't, just doesn't sit right with me. You're right Pawnstick, if I was in the person's presence or their friends, I'd used the persons name instead of gender specific pronouns. However if for some reason I had to refer to the persons gender in the company of other people, I'd use what best matches the gender defining attributes of the person. It's up to the person in question to fill in other people about their [del]mental illness[/del] situation.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45430267]Chosen name? The fuck?[/QUOTE] ... people can change their name you know?

man, imagine being so stubborn you wont call people by their preferred pronouns it takes like literally 2 seconds to say "ah, sorry i didnt know" (if you actually didnt know) and call them by their preferred pronouns like a regular human being

[QUOTE=Nasal_Spray;45430326][b]If people make no to effort to make themselves into the gender that they want, then I don't see why I should show them any respect in this area.[/b] If I start referring to Wendy, the scantily clad bar maid as a he, people are going to look at me funny. Even if they can get past that, I can't, just doesn't sit right with me.[/quote] Oh my fucking god are you serious? There's a lot of stigma to being transgender. People like you don't help, but the stigma primarily revolves around society. We're taught at a young age that girls do one thing and boys do another. Everything you do, whether its hanging with your friends, playing a video game, watching a TV show or the news, teaches you these things. So a lot of transsexual people grow up believing they have to be this way and suppress their true selves until they eventually breakdown and can't take it anymore. Then comes the road of self-discovery where you learn the truth about yourself. And, even then, there's a lot of people who can't handle it and hide in the closet. Even if that's not the case, getting hormones is not an easy process. It is in America, thankfully, since in places like the UK you they essentially do what's called "gatekeeping" so they can delay your treatment as much as possible. This could on for years. EVEN SO, people in America still need to go see a therapist who then has to evaluate that they do have Gender Identity Disorder. And then they can get a referral, see an endocrinologist, get tested, and get approved for hormones [b][i]if their body is verified that it can handle the medication.[/i][/b] If you're too unhealthy, you'd be denied. EVEN MORESO, hormones aren't a magic pill that works overnight. Yes, they are magic in the sense they do a LOT. But transitioning is not some overnight process. For the first few months transwomen still look a lot like men. Around the 4-6 mark we look like an androgynous mess. It's usually past the 1 year mark where we actually start to look female. The other issue also involves social transitioning. This includes speaking, especially since MtF HRT does not alter our voices. We also need to learn the mannerisms of the gender we identify as since we've spent most of our lives living as the wrong gender. Also, people who transition late in life have a harder time passing. But they try their best. You're going to call a 40 year old transwoman a man just because she looks like one with long hair? Despite the fact she has full feminine attire, good makeup, and a passable voice? Nice. Real nice. [editline]dsla[/editline] I'm sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive but stubborn people like you get on my nerves. It literally takes two seconds to correct yourself if you've been told but instead you rather be stubborn and not respect that. Why?

[QUOTE=Tom Hutchins;45426445]He* His names Brad. A chicken can paint itself black and white and stand around in fields. It doesn't suddenly become a cow.[/QUOTE] I can't wait for when years from now, people see shit like this in the same way we see the mindless fucks in the 20th century (or hell, even now) spouting off racist or homophobic slogans seriously I can already taste how antiquated and obviously bigoted it is and it's still in fashion grandpop please can we talk about swing music or something you're making us uncomfortable

Yes I know people can change their name but that is part of their IDENTITY. If you change yourself to be what you identify your gender as? Okay. That's fine. But changing your name is a much bigger thing, at least to other people. We may look at Chelsea Manning as a girl, but it's still Bradley Manning by name. You aren't creating a character for "Life RPG". I'm all for helping you identify as you biologically feel, but you can't pick and choose who you are by name. No offense to you, SadisticGecko, but I can completely understand where your parents are coming from. Your mom legit gave birth to you, and together her and your father named you. Then years down the line you say you are ACTUALLY a man, and change what they named you to suit you better.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432407]Yes I know people can change their name but that is part of their IDENTITY. If you change yourself to be what you identify your gender as? Okay. That's fine. But changing your name is a much bigger thing, at least to other people. We may look at Chelsea Manning as a girl, but it's still Bradley Manning by name. You aren't creating a character for "Life RPG". I'm all for helping you identify as you biologically feel, but you can't pick and choose who you are by name. No offense to you, SadisticGecko, but I can completely understand where your parents are coming from. Your mom legit gave birth to you, and together her and your father named you. Then years down the line you say you are ACTUALLY a man, and change what they named you to suit you better.[/QUOTE] the fact that you're comparing computer games to a real life situation is just ridiculous lmao

[QUOTE=Ownederd;45432410]the fact that you're comparing computer games to a real life situation is just ridiculous lmao[/QUOTE] It was an expression. I'd hope you'd not be so belittling of the opposition to your opinion that you wouldn't notice.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432407]Yes I know people can change their name but that is part of their IDENTITY. If you change yourself to be what you identify your gender as? Okay. That's fine. But changing your name is a much bigger thing, at least to other people. We may look at Chelsea Manning as a girl, but it's still Bradley Manning by name. You aren't creating a character for "Life RPG". I'm all for helping you identify as you biologically feel, but you can't pick and choose who you are by name. No offense to you, SadisticGecko, but I can completely understand where your parents are coming from. Your mom legit gave birth to you, and together her and your father named you. Then years down the line you say you are ACTUALLY a man, and change what they named you to suit you better.[/QUOTE] Good point, we should totally deny inherent aspects of ourselves in order to please our parents, I'm pretty sure that doesn't lead to psychological problems or unhappiness.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432407]Yes I know people can change their name but that is part of their IDENTITY. If you change yourself to be what you identify your gender as? Okay. That's fine. But changing your name is a much bigger thing, at least to other people. We may look at Chelsea Manning as a girl, but it's still Bradley Manning by name. You aren't creating a character for "Life RPG". I'm all for helping you identify as you biologically feel, but you can't pick and choose who you are by name. No offense to you, SadisticGecko, but I can completely understand where your parents are coming from. Your mom legit gave birth to you, and together her and your father named you. Then years down the line you say you are ACTUALLY a man, and change what they named you to suit you better.[/QUOTE] Wait, so you're more offended by people changing their name than you are by changing their sex? You accept people being transsexual, but changing their name is out of the question? ...Huh. Well, there's a first time for everything.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432407]Yes I know people can change their name but that is part of their IDENTITY. If you change yourself to be what you identify your gender as? Okay. That's fine. But changing your name is a much bigger thing, at least to other people. We may look at Chelsea Manning as a girl, but it's still Bradley Manning by name. You aren't creating a character for "Life RPG". I'm all for helping you identify as you biologically feel, but you can't pick and choose who you are by name. No offense to you, SadisticGecko, but I can completely understand where your parents are coming from. Your mom legit gave birth to you, and together her and your father named you. Then years down the line you say you are ACTUALLY a man, and change what they named you to suit you better.[/QUOTE] hhaha what. Your name isnt anything but your name. If my name was 'ass' or 'reiines' I would change it, because it makes me uncomfortable, would probably lead to awkward situations, etcetera. Just because I change my name doesn't mean I am now a completely different person. Changing your name due to gender dysphoria should be no less of an issue than changing your name because your parents had really shitty perception. I can totally understand that a parent may be bummed out that their child doesn't want to be called by their name, but its their decision and the parent should respect it, ESPECIALLY in the case when the name causes significant consternation to the owner. It sounds like you are nitpicking rather than being critical of one aspect, I don't know anybody who would not be slightly puzzled to meet a person going by a predominantly other gender name.

[QUOTE=Last or First;45432462]Wait, so you're more offended by people changing their name than you are by changing their sex? You accept people being transsexual, but changing their name is out of the question? ...Huh. Well, there's a first time for everything.[/QUOTE] Your gender is biological. Your name isn't.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432503]Your gender is biological. Your name isn't.[/QUOTE] uhm you can legally change your name dude i don't see where the fuss is

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432503]Your gender is biological. Your name isn't.[/QUOTE] What if your name was sparklepaw [editline]19th July 2014[/editline] or gt500

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432503]Your gender is biological. Your name isn't.[/QUOTE] Your gender is psychological. Your [I]sex[/I] is biological.

[QUOTE=mn_chaos;45432512]What if your name was sparklepaw [editline]19th July 2014[/editline] or gt500[/QUOTE] or "Literally Kills Children"

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;45432525]Your gender is psychological. Your [I]sex[/I] is biological.[/QUOTE] There is only really sex. Gender doesn't really refer to much. You have males and females, and then you have transsexuals who suffered from a developmental disorder as a tiny proportion (and even then they always seek to identify as either male or female). Do note that sexual reassignment surgery, hormonal therapy, etc is the solution to this, which is almost always the result of a problem happening before birth and cannot be treated by ignoring the fact that mtf people are female and ftm people are male.

[QUOTE=Emperorconor;45432564]There is only really sex. Gender doesn't really refer to much. You have males and females, and then you have transsexuals who suffered from a developmental disorder as a tiny proportion (and even then they always seek to identify as either male or female).[/QUOTE] did i just step into a daily mail dot com comment section seriously, the fact that you're treating transgender individuals as second-class citizens is revolting

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;45432407]Yes I know people can change their name but that is part of their IDENTITY. If you change yourself to be what you identify your gender as? Okay. That's fine. But changing your name is a much bigger thing, at least to other people. We may look at Chelsea Manning as a girl, but it's still Bradley Manning by name. You aren't creating a character for "Life RPG". I'm all for helping you identify as you biologically feel, but you can't pick and choose who you are by name. No offense to you, SadisticGecko, but I can completely understand where your parents are coming from. Your mom legit gave birth to you, and together her and your father named you. Then years down the line you say you are ACTUALLY a man, and change what they named you to suit you better.[/QUOTE] My mom only kept me because my dad wanted her to. Otherwise she would have gotten an abortion. My dad was also the one who named me; she would have gone with something such as "Hannah". I have [I]never[/I] liked my name, even as a small child I wanted to be called something different. However, the primary reason is that it's spelled in such a way that fucking no one knows how to pronounce it or can write it down correctly without me spelling it out. The way I see it, I'm the one that has to be called by my name for the next 50+ years. Why can't it be something [B]I[/B] want to be called? It's no different than my step-sister changing her name because her mother insisted on giving her a boy's name. ...As for my mom, she doesn't like men, so of course she doesn't want me to transition. This is a woman who told me that had I been born a boy, she would have abused me and flat threatened to physically assault me. Take from that what you will.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;45432638]did i just step into a daily mail dot com comment section seriously, the fact that you're treating transgender individuals as second-class citizens is revolting[/QUOTE] stop assuming that, i actually think we should help these people to get the help they need transsexual people are people with legitimate health issues best resolved through various hormonal therapies, surgery, being allowed to change their name, etc the point is that transsexual people always feel either male /or/ female in the end, and that the transition process seeks to take them from one to the other

[QUOTE=Emperorconor;45432979]stop assuming that transsexual people are people with legitimate health issues best resolved through various hormonal therapies, surgery, being allowed to change their name, etc the point is that transsexual people always feel either male /or/ female in the end, and that the transition process seeks to take them from one to the other[/QUOTE] first off: you should formally refer to them as transgender, not transsexual. that is outright degrading

[QUOTE=Ownederd;45432991]first off: you should formally refer to them as transgender, not transsexual. that is outright degrading[/QUOTE] what's wrong with transsexual as a term? it's a legitimate medical term referring to ftm and mtf people that seek to transition (usually through sexual reassignment surgery) [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism[/URL] [quote]In popular culture, transsexualism is often incorrectly conflated with [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_performer"]drag performance[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dressing"]cross-dressing[/URL].[/quote] [quote]The DSM does not distinguish between gender identity disorder and transsexualism, and defines [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestic_fetishism"]transvestic fetishism[/URL] as a separate phenomenon which may co-occur with transsexualism. [/quote] i'm not some fucked up dude as you make me out to be, i think that transsexual people should be allowed to dress in what they like, change their names, go see a doctor, get hormones and surgery, and that they should be accorded basic human rights and be treated with dignity

Transgender is what most of the community uses, and doesn't have the same outdated/pornographic connotations as transsexual does.

[QUOTE=Levithan;45433060]Transgender is what most of the community uses, and doesn't have the same outdated/pornographic connotations as transsexual does.[/QUOTE] i don't think "transgender" is a very good term since in itself it doesn't make any sense there's a lot of bullshit around the use of the term "gender" which has cropped up in the past few decades, most of it relating to psychologists conducting unethical experiments or anthropologists misinterpreting a culture they are studying even now i suppose, "gender" has starting replacing "sex" as a term for a strange reason