Armed robber shot by Pokemon Go player he tried to rob - Polidicks

Correct me if I'm wrong but ultimately the CCW holder decided that the possibility of himself or one of his friends getting shot and possibly killed was worth opening fire to keep their belongings. I don't think it was the right move. Shoulda just handed over the goods. I'd rather lose a phone and wallet over a chunk of my stomach or face. And the stuff about 'they might kill you after anyway'. Surely they'd just shoot you first and then rob you if that was the case?

There is no reason to believe that just because they could have complied when being robbed that the robber would have left them alive. The group's lives were in danger as soon as the armed robber showed up.

Glock 17, I choose you! At least nobody died. [QUOTE=TheTalon;50779464]And I'd rather some punk get shot than steal my stuff. On top of that, I've seen videos of [b]armed robbers shoot who they robbed after getting what they wanted just because.[/b] Did escalating this make the situation worse? Maybe. Or maybe he just saved 6 lives. I doubt the guy would have gunned down 6 people, then again people are getting gunned down everywhere now days, so you don't and can't know. All you do know is what you can do. Who knows who else was going to be this guy's victim in the future and end up dead[/QUOTE] Talking from a country where I see this usually happening, can't say I blame the guy. But maybe I'm biased.

[QUOTE=GammaFive;50780273]There is no reason to believe that just because they could have complied when being robbed that the robber would have left them alive. The group's lives were in danger as soon as the armed robber showed up.[/QUOTE] There is no reason to believe that this particular robber is a psychopathic killer. There is literally nothing they can gain by murdering but a lot to lose going from armed robbery to multiple homicide, even low-level thugs understand risk vs reward; a wallet of cash isnt worth life in jail.

[QUOTE=cyanidem;50780235]Correct me if I'm wrong but ultimately the CCW holder decided that the possibility of himself or one of his friends getting shot and possibly killed was worth opening fire to keep their belongings. I don't think it was the right move. Shoulda just handed over the goods. I'd rather lose a phone and wallet over a chunk of my stomach or face. And the stuff about 'they might kill you after anyway'. Surely they'd just shoot you first and then rob you if that was the case?[/QUOTE] The person who opened up the possibility of someone getting shot was the person who presented the initial threat. That person therefore needed to be dealt with. If someone gets injured in the process, the only person responsible is the person who made the initial threat. If they hadn't made the initial threat, then nobody would have been shot - neither in self defence, nor otherwise. It is not possible to know whether your friends' lives are more at risk or less at risk as a result of an intervention because it depends on the intention of the attacker. The idea that a victim of a robbery is guilty of provoking their assailant by trying to defend themselves would be comparable to claiming that a smartly dressed young lady is responsible for the provoking of her own rape. The victim of the robbery can't know the true intentions of the attacker, especially when there is a gun pointed to his face. If the victim has a chance of successful self defence, why risk letting the attacker control the narrative? As with all of these things, there is the "ideal situation" and the "reality". In the rape example, the ideal situation is that there is no attempted rape made. The reality is that it would help if the lady knows some self defence techniques. In the case of the robbery, the ideal situation is that nobody is threatened with a gun. In reality, it would help if someone nearby is ready to intervene - but in a proportionate way.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50778927]Many people on Facepunch would gladly kill someone else to save their possessions, judging from the kind of arguments often thrown around.[/QUOTE] Gladly? I don't think any gun owner, me included would "gladly" kill someone, that's a dickish thing to say, and I think your life and friends lives is what you're going to be thinking about, not a goddamn phone. Also plenty of people have been robbed and shot/stabbed afterwards.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50779295]An ass cheek is the safest place to be shot. No organs or arteries, just fat and muscle.[/QUOTE] but on the other side of your ass cheek is your genitals and I'd rather be dead

[QUOTE=nox;50780109]This is some dangerous cowboy logic. Maybe the other people in the group want to keep their lives instead of having you decide their precious property is worth risking everyone's lives over so you can satisfy that revenge hard on people who carry around guns seem to have wet dreams about.[/QUOTE] Or maybe...just maybe the robber was getting agitated before the ccw guy pulled his gun out and he thought the robber was going to shoot? Maybe he was on pcp, crack, or mentally unstable. Having a CCP isn't about having wet dreams over shooting people, those are called psychopaths. Goddamn the ignorance in every thread like this is astounding.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50780400]Or maybe...just maybe the robber was getting agitated before the ccw guy pulled his gun out and he thought the robber was going to shoot? Maybe he was on pcp, crack, or mentally unstable. Having a CCP isn't about having wet dreams over shooting people, those are called psychopaths. [b]Goddamn the ignorance in every thread like this is astounding.[/b][/QUOTE] It reminds me a lot of the "why didn't he just shoot him in the leg?" posts.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50778661]Ugly situation all around. The fault here obviously lies with the robber, ultimately, but you can't help but wonder whether it would have just been better to give him the damn phones considering a bystander was shot in the stomach as a result of the concealed carry player escalating the situation and starting a firefight. I'd rather see the loss of possessions than the loss of life any day of the week.[/QUOTE] Nobody died, and the suspect is probably in custody. Don't get ahead of yourself.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50780400]Or maybe...just maybe the robber was getting agitated before the ccw guy pulled his gun out and he thought the robber was going to shoot? Maybe he was on pcp, crack, or mentally unstable. Having a CCP isn't about having wet dreams over shooting people, those are called psychopaths. Goddamn the ignorance in every thread like this is astounding.[/QUOTE] Sure, let's assume certain things about the scenario to better fit the idea that the shooter was just some altruistic hero who only used his gun because he saw that crazy look in the robber's eyes and needed to act.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50778927]Many people on Facepunch would gladly kill someone else to save their possessions, judging from the kind of arguments often thrown around.[/QUOTE] It's self defense, you know like what the police do when they are confronted with a gun.

[QUOTE=nox;50780665]Sure, let's assume certain things about the scenario to better fit the idea that the shooter was just some altruistic hero who only used his gun because he saw that crazy look in the robber's eyes and needed to act.[/QUOTE] Would you rather assume certain things like he's bloodthirsty and happy to shoot and endanger others instead to make him look like a deranged psychopath?

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50780711]Would you rather assume certain things like he's bloodthirsty and happy to shoot and endanger others instead to make him look like a deranged psychopath?[/QUOTE] My assumption would be that it would have ended as most armed robberies do, instead, people got hurt, but hey, at least they got the bad guy am I right?

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50778927]Many people on Facepunch would gladly kill someone else to save their possessions, judging from the kind of arguments often thrown around.[/QUOTE] Less restricted self-defense+property laws go hand in hand with less restricted gun laws. It'd be hella problematic if you couldn't kill people for unlawfully entering your house, yet you could almost freely purchase a wide selection of guns for the purpose of target-shooting, collecting, for carrying it around even, but not defending your property or self? How silly would that be.

[QUOTE=nox;50780792]My assumption would be that it would have ended as most armed robberies do, instead, people got hurt, but hey, at least they got the bad guy am I right?[/QUOTE] good for you, but some people are not content with putting their lives in the hands of people crazy enough to commit armed robbery in the first place

[QUOTE=nox;50780792]My assumption would be that it would have ended as most armed robberies do, instead, people got hurt, but hey, at least they got the bad guy am I right?[/QUOTE] Even if your assumption is right (not enough information to conclude that, obviously), I think you're expecting a lot from a dude who's got a gun pointed at him. Also keep in mind this guy has training. It's easy to sit Infront of your screen and say "maybe he made the wrong move" I think it's stupid to judge the guy when it's impossible to know what move he should have made with the information in the article. Why is this so hard to grasp?

[QUOTE=Firegod522;50778389]I can understand staying out till just after midnight, but 4 a.m. seems just a little too late... Shouldn't be surprised though. I have stayed out till about 2, but we were in a very populated area where there are A LOT of people walking around still playing, kinda neutralizes the ability for the gunman to pick out somebody when there are 40+ people walking about a little area. Glad the group of players had the one person with a permit to conceal carry. Hope he heals fast.[/QUOTE] I used to wake up at 4am for work. It's not that far fetched for someone to be up that early.

[QUOTE=nox;50780319]There is no reason to believe that this particular robber is a psychopathic killer. There is literally nothing they can gain by murdering but a lot to lose going from armed robbery to multiple homicide, even low-level thugs understand risk vs reward; a wallet of cash isnt worth life in jail.[/QUOTE] yes because the type of person to rob people at gunpoint is the type of person to have a clearly logical thought pattern it's easy to sit here and say "well the robber doesn't gain anything from killing them. they should have handed over all their stuff", but it's not easy when you're in that situation facing down someone you have every right to believe is deranged and unstable.

[QUOTE=ZakkShock;50778973]Hey dude, I work hard for my shit. It's not someone elses to take.[/QUOTE] I'm not american so theres no "guns yeehah" bias thing people could ever point out, and I share the same sentiment, after having my house broken into twice.

[QUOTE=cyanidem;50780235] And the stuff about 'they might kill you after anyway'. Surely they'd just shoot you first and then rob you if that was the case?[/QUOTE] If you surrender you life and belongings to a robber, what they do afterwards is up to them. Here's a situation where someone gave their money and still got shot afterwards. [quote]The shooting happened about 11:30 p.m. Sunday in the 1900 block of Webster Street outside the building where the dentist's office is located. Authorities said Kang had arrived in San Francisco on Sunday evening, checked into a Peninsula hotel, then drove to Oakland in a rental car to meet with a dentist he knew for the teeth cleaning. He had a return flight booked for Monday night. The two left the building after the appointment. Kang had gotten into his rental car and the dentist was outside the vehicle when two robbers approached and demanded money, Sgt. Mike Gantt said. Kang appeared to have been robbed of some items before being shot. Gantt said police are not sure why he was shot.[/quote] [url]http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15549757[/url]

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;50781546]If you surrender you life and belongings to a robber, what they do afterwards is up to them. Here's a situation where someone gave their money and still got shot afterwards. [URL]http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15549757[/URL][/QUOTE] Here are 2.1 million instances where a robber didn't kill their victim, granted, these are burglaries, but pretty much the same mindset. Criminal wants what you have, victim doesn't fight, criminal leaves with their stuff, nobody dies. An incredibly slim chance of being robbed and killed. [quote]Between 2003 and 2007, approximately 2.1 million household burglaries were reported to the FBI each year on average. Household burglaries ending in homicide made up 0.004% of all burglaries during that period.[/quote] [URL="http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt"]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt [/URL]

[QUOTE=nox;50781829]Here are 2.1 million instances where a robber didn't kill their victim, granted, these are burglaries, but pretty much the same mindset. Criminal wants what you have, victim doesn't fight, criminal leaves with their stuff, nobody dies. An incredibly slim chance of being robbed and killed. [URL="http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt"]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt [/URL][/QUOTE] I suppose next time someone gets robbed at gunpoint, they'll first pull up statistics on how many of these robberies end in homicide before they decide to defend themselves!

[QUOTE=ZakkShock;50778973]Hey dude, I work hard for my shit. It's not someone elses to take.[/QUOTE] if someone has a gun pointed at me, i'll give them my phone. i dont care how hard i worked for it i'm not going to risk losing my life over something like that. i've been confronted over something as little as a $5 note and walked away because it was not worth getting hurt over.

[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;50781939]if someone has a gun pointed at me, i'll give them my phone. i dont care how hard i worked for it i'm not going to risk losing my life over something like that. i've been confronted over something as little as a $5 note and walked away because it was not worth getting hurt over.[/QUOTE] It's bizarre to me that people here wouldn't. I can only assume it's because of immaturity and misguided emotional responses (not in an offensive way). Maybe if people had experienced a debilitating injury or disease they'd realise that living with that for the rest of your life is no where near as bad as being robbed of your pockets. Don't get me wrong. I'd shoot to protect myself, but here it just sounded like the wrong thing to do, especially as it endangered his friends too.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50778661]Ugly situation all around. The fault here obviously lies with the robber, ultimately, but you can't help but wonder whether it would have just been better to give him the damn phones considering a bystander was shot in the stomach as a result of the concealed carry player escalating the situation and starting a firefight. I'd rather see the loss of possessions than the loss of life any day of the week.[/QUOTE] If this stunt went off without a hitch, The robbers would have continued to do so again and again, Possibly encouraging other like-minded thugs to do the same

Are there any stats on the proportions of injuries/deaths of victims where they complied compared to returning fire? Obviously individual situations can call for different actions, but where its ambiguous, surely one choice is more likely to end favourably. There's a risk of getting shot either way, when there's a gun involved.

[QUOTE=ZakkShock;50778973]Hey dude, I work hard for my shit. It's not someone elses to take.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'd suggest NOT pulling out your own if some people actually get a jump on you and have you at gunpoint. (I've never been anywhere close to a situation like that, so this is just my subjective, pussy-ass view on how to respond to an armed robbery situation.) But in other situations where you have the time to pull it out and use it, without getting shot immediately? Go ahead I don't care, but you know there are some risks.

If they thought armed robbery was a logical way to get money or whatever, I feel no remorse if he got shot trying to take it.

[QUOTE=ZakkShock;50778973]Hey dude, I work hard for my shit. It's not someone elses to take.[/QUOTE] Even if one of your friends dies because you escalated the situation rather than just relinquishing your phone? Is the life of one of your friends worth less to you than a phone? [editline]27th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=wrv451nlp;50782507]If this stunt went off without a hitch, The robbers would have continued to do so again and again, Possibly encouraging other like-minded thugs to do the same[/QUOTE] It's not the robber getting shot that I'm concerned about, but the bystander. If you are in a one on one scenario and want to gamble with your own life to protect your cellphone, then that's your call, but in escalating the situation to an all out gunfight in a public space while your friends stand by you could be spending somebody else's life. A phone is a few hundred dollars, I like to think that the life of a friend is worth a fair bit more. [editline]27th July 2016[/editline] I don't know, man. I'm sure this was a shocking situation, and maybe pulling out his own gun was the only thing he could do. It's hard enough to make that call in person, and easy to judge the consequences from the outside of it. All I can say is that I hope I don't ever have to make this kind of decision, because if one of my friends were killed as a result of my action (or inaction), I would never be able to forgive myself.