"The disabled should be paid UNDER minium wage" - says Conservative MP - Polidicks

Some of you need to realise that this won't automatically mean that disabled people are paid under the minimum, it's an incentive for employment. I'm sure that disabled workers who display excellent performance wouldn't be paid under the minimum. The lowering the minimum is just to deal with the disabled who can't perform better than others.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;30527165]Some of you need to realise that this won't automatically mean that disabled people are paid under the minimum, it's an incentive for employment. I'm sure that disabled workers who display excellent performance wouldn't be paid under the minimum. The lowering the minimum is just to deal with the disabled who can't perform better than others.[/QUOTE] You don't seriously believe this wouldn't be exploited? Suddenly, as long as a disabled guy says he consents to it, an employer can pay him less? He's not going to employ any disabled people (Eg. Myself) who wouldn't do that (Eg. Myself), and that's what's really sickening about this.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;30525724]Yeah it sounds inhumane, but we still need to look at the practical ends of things.[/QUOTE] Well, why bother providing them with jobs anyway? If they are a net drain on society, why not just legislate against them? If it's preferable, although less practical, to sterilize them rather than kill them all, we might as well do that. [editline]18th June 2011[/editline] When you start to support the kinds of thing you would do in Dwarf Fortress, you should recognize you're doing horrible things.

[QUOTE=Contag;30527291]Well, why bother providing them with jobs anyway? If they are a net drain on society, why not just legislate against them? If it's preferable, although less practical, to sterilize them rather than kill them all, we might as well do that. [editline]18th June 2011[/editline] When you start to support the kinds of thing you would do in Dwarf Fortress, you should recognize you're doing horrible things.[/QUOTE] In a realistic "sociopath" view point, we should. It was done before (most were sent to the mental hospital and kept there for the rest of their lives) and abolished after. Depending on what level of severity their handicaps are, they are a net drain on society and nations. However, some people have this idea that they're humans too. Which they are, and they should be treated as so. Getting equal pay for doing less work, at a lesser pace, at a lesser ability to learn and adapt. This is something we should strive away from.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;30527421]In a realistic "sociopath" view point, we should. It was done before (most were sent to the mental hospital and kept there for the rest of their lives) and abolished after. Depending on what level of severity their handicaps are, they are a net drain on society and nations. However, some people have this idea that they're humans too. Which they are, and they should be treated as so. Getting equal pay for doing less work, at a lesser pace, at a lesser ability to learn and adapt. This is something we should strive away from.[/QUOTE] Yeah we should just let disabled people live in poverty, brilliant idea.

[QUOTE=Ama-zake;30526380]Still, if you lower the minimum wage people are going to be paid lower wages guaranteed and people who already have entry level jobs are going to have to scramble more for living expenses because of wage drops. Both sides aren't the solution to this issue - why not just issue tax breaks to businesses employing the disabled equivalent to the minimum wage drop so that handicapped people [b]can[/b] pay taxes back to the government but still pay living expenses?[/QUOTE] Yes, this is a very real probability that should be avoided. Like i mentioned in my pros; its corporate greed that'll make this more ineffecient. However, will you shop at a store ran by the local schizophrenics and suffers of downs syndrome? Will you let your waiter be a quadripalegic? Tax brakes are horrible. They benefit the companies, not the country as a whole. See now we got OUR taxes paying for even more now. Poor circle to start journeying down. A good method is this one. [editline]17th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;30527452]Yeah we should just let disabled people live in poverty, brilliant idea.[/QUOTE] Most disabled people lived in assisted housing. Just depends on their level of disability.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;30527452]Yeah we should just let disabled people live in poverty, brilliant idea.[/QUOTE]I don't see why they should be paid the same for doing less work.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;30525164]I don't see a problem. Getting under minimum is better than no wage. I mean, if his disability makes him do the job not as good as without a disability.[/QUOTE] The problem is that they are being treated poorly just because they aren't "normal."

ahahahahahaha since when has pay been based on the amount of work you do??

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;30527496]Yes, this is a very real probability that should be avoided. Like i mentioned in my pros; its corporate greed that'll make this more ineffecient. However, will you shop at a store ran by the local schizophrenics and suffers of downs syndrome? Will you let your waiter be a quadripalegic? Tax brakes are horrible. They benefit the companies, not the country as a whole. See now we got OUR taxes paying for even more now. Poor circle to start journeying down. A good method is this one. [editline]17th June 2011[/editline] Most disabled people lived in assisted housing. Just depends on their level of disability.[/QUOTE] And what about those who don't live in assisted housing? Why should people be forced to live in poverty because of something they have no control over (unless by disabled person you mean morbidly obese person)

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;30527556]The problem is that they are being treated poorly just because they aren't "normal."[/QUOTE] So we should treat the kid with downs syndrome with same pay because he is incapable of doing the same amount of work, but he isn't normal so its just okay.

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;30527556]The problem is that they are being treated poorly just because they aren't "normal."[/QUOTE] If anything, they are treated damn well. Government even tries to change stuff so they have a change of getting a job.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;30527581]And what about those who don't live in assisted housing? Why should people be forced to live in poverty because of something they have no control over (unless by disabled person you mean morbidly obese person)[/QUOTE] No. Im talking more or less about mental handicaps. The guy who is obese, but is able to complete his job 100% to all requirements; fine get the same pay. The obese guy who cannot meet all his requirements due to his handicap; fine get less pay. Especially obesity; most of the time it can be resolved by not being lazy. It could also be a problem with just their genetics... which should also fall back on the previous statement about not being able to fullfill his job requirements due to the disability. If its a work related disability... I don't think that person should be punished at all. Or short term disabilities like broken legs, or pregnancy. Those should be disregarded and they should receive their normal pay.

Guys, getting payed under minimum wage would make your job essentially worthless. If you can't raise enough money to meet you basic needs of living, which are often [i]substantially higher[/i] than someone without a disability, then it makes it so that no matter how many hours you put in, then you essentially wasted all those work hours. [editline]17th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Richard Simmons;30527635]No. Im talking more or less about mental handicaps. The guy who is obese, but is able to complete his job 100% to all requirements; fine get the same pay. The obese guy who cannot meet all his requirements due to his handicap; fine get less pay.[/QUOTE] Under minimum wage, though? Then he can't meet his basic needs.

[QUOTE=BagMinge104;30527667]Guys, getting payed under minimum wage would make your job essentially worthless. If you can't raise enough money to meet you basic needs of living, which are often [i]substantially higher[/i] than someone without a disability no matter how many hours you put in, then you essentially wasted all those work hours. [editline]17th June 2011[/editline] Under minimum wage, though? Then he can't meet his basic needs.[/QUOTE] Well then sit on your disabled ass and leech off the government.

Fuckin' toffs, even the back benchers are cunts. Disabled people shouldnt be prepared to accept LESS than minimum that's setting a terrible standard that would be abused to deny other people like immigrants proper wages, slippery slope dont fuck with peoples minimum wage, not only is it wrong but it's just plain stupid that he's suggesting it, political suicide in a fucking can right there. With how expensive everything is in Britain (and it's only getting more expensive) if anything the disabled people should get slightly more to help them cope, because they certainly would find it harder to get a 2nd job to pay the hugely increasing bills the government is doing fuck all about . [QUOTE=johan_sm;30527711]Well then sit on your disabled ass and leech off the government.[/QUOTE] fuck off out of the thread already, obviously you're not contributing to it other than by holding it up so people can tell you how wrong you are.

This is obviously going to be one of those threads which causes extreme rage. Bye y'all, don't get too NSDAP-esque.

[QUOTE=Spawndex;30527740] fuck off out of the thread already, obviously you're not contributing to it other than by holding it up so people can tell you how wrong you are.[/QUOTE] No one yet has told me how wrong I am, the only thing I got told is that I am dumb and wrong, but not why.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;30527711]Well then sit on your disabled ass and leech off the government.[/QUOTE] When the government is providing the basic monetary benefits that allow you to function admist conditions you don't control, then it is hardly "leaching". [editline]17th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=johan_sm;30527797]No one yet has told me how wrong I am, the only thing I got told is that I am dumb and wrong, but not why.[/QUOTE] Because you think it's perfectly acceptable for disabled people to lead useless jobs and think that government disability payments somehow make up for that.

[QUOTE=BagMinge104;30527667]Guys, getting payed under minimum wage would make your job essentially worthless. If you can't raise enough money to meet you basic needs of living, which are often [i]substantially higher[/i] than someone without a disability, then it makes it so that no matter how many hours you put in, then you essentially wasted all those work hours. [editline]17th June 2011[/editline] Under minimum wage, though? Then he can't meet his basic needs.[/QUOTE] I don't think so. Like i mentioned before about level of disability.... It depends on their level of disability that they should receive these cuts. Take this for a (fictional) case; A guy who is severly handicapped with a downs syndrome, gets a job. He is only able to meet 50% of his job requirements. So he receives less pay than minimal. This effects none of his "basic needs" since most are supplied by his parents or caretakers, and/or the government. He is now basically working, just to work. It is his right to work. A girl recently was hired 90 days ago, and is now pregnant. She is expected to go on maternity leave in 8 months. Because of this, she is only able to perform 30% of her job. She should receive no pay cuts, or termination of employment which will result in termination of her insurance. This benefits her, while a fully capable human, but restricted by her pregnancy, has to pay for her basic needs. Which may include housing, food, copays, bills and the like. I don't know any independent adults with a severe mental or physical handicap.

[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;30527972] I don't know any independent adults with a severe mental or physical handicap.[/QUOTE] Because there aren't any. It's called severe for a reason.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;30528048]Because there aren't any. It's called severe for a reason.[/QUOTE] no shit? Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Fuck the Conservatives. Honestly i'd prefer Labour over them. [editline]18th June 2011[/editline] Oh God what did I just say.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;30525164]I don't see a problem. Getting under minimum is better than no wage. I mean, if his disability makes him do the job not as good as without a disability.[/QUOTE] Lower minimum wages means more jobs but less money per family. Higher employment but overall poorer people.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;30527711]Well then sit on your disabled ass and leech off the government.[/QUOTE] Your posts are absolutely disgusting, you know that right? [editline]17th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=johan_sm;30528048]Because there aren't any. It's called severe for a reason.[/QUOTE] I know a few, because my country doesn't share your viewpoints and actually allows disabled people to live good lives

I actually agree with this, most disabled people in the UK get DLA anyway.

Some people seem to be forgetting the fact that disability is forced upon you, it's not your choice.

snip

[QUOTE=s0beit;30525374]How about this, instead of telling people what they should be working for, put your theories to the test and allow people to work at whatever wages they want, allow them to opt out of the minimum wage. Don't allow businesses to set wages below the standard minimum, but allow workers applying to work for lower if they want. Is this a problem?[/QUOTE] If you do that then there would be people working for less than minimum wage, so whey would they hire someone for minimum wage or higher if they know they can find someone else willing to work for less.

This guy can eat a bowl of dicks as far as I'm concerned.