HP brings back Windows 7 'by popular demand' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43607842]With no decent replacement available.[/QUOTE] Ignoring Metro, Windows 8 is nigh identical to 7. If you can use 7, you can use 8. If you don't like Metro or whatever, that's fine, but calling Windows 8 unusable, or in your case, not a "decent replacement" is foolish. [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1351455&p=43606422&viewfull=1#post43606422]Dai's post[/url] gets it down.

It wasn't until I upgraded from vista to 8 that I realized how frequent crashes in vista were. 8 rarely crashes but when it does crash, it crashes harder than vista ever did since task manager becomes useless. Luckily, it's very rare. Also, windows 8 apparently does not get along well with Q6600's on nForce motherboards

[QUOTE=Kljunas;43609104]Well Windows 8 isn't that bad, but it's not a significant improvement over Windows 7 so in the end choosing between W8 and W7 pretty much depends on what interface you prefer. If you dislike Metro there's no real reason to use W8.[/QUOTE] Interface wise, it goes down to start screen versus start menu. In my experience, start screen is just a bigger start menu, sans the "shut down" options, taking things literally. From using Windows 8 since launch, I feel I can say I feel that the start screen is only aesthetically different from the menu.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;43609162]Well, I'd say if you have the choice between the two - just get W8 and install a start screen replacement if it bothers you that much. You'll get updates for 3 years longer, along with faster boot times and general responsiveness. And it's, what? $5 for startisback or whatever? I'd say that's worth it.[/QUOTE] Classic Shell is free and offers a ton of customization. Anyone that pays to get the start menu back is a complete idiot.

[QUOTE=dgg;43608663]Windows 8 is by far the best OS to date. [I]Install a free program like "Classic Shell" and you get your good old start menu back as well.[/I][/QUOTE] [highlight][B]THAT SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY!![/B][/highlight] [I]THAT's[/I] the sole thing responsible for the massive distaste for Windows 8, and also why it''s flopping harder than a fat guy belly-landing in a pool.

windows 7 master race :v:

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43609349][highlight][B]THAT SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY!![/B][/highlight] [I]THAT's[/I] the sole thing responsible for the massive distaste for Windows 8, and also why it''s flopping harder than a fat guy belly-landing in a pool.[/QUOTE] It shouldn't be necessary for me to download Flash to watch videos on youtube, CCleaner to keep my registry clean, DXtory to record videos, Defraggler to properly defrag my disks, Speccy to actually see all the hardware components of my PC and temperatures, Mumble to properly voice chat with friends, ReNamer to properly batch rename files, K-lite Codec Pack to watch common video files, etc etc. I think it's pretty weird from any windows user to suddenly frown on modding their Windows when that's one of the things they usually praise it for, it's customization abilities, it's modding abilities. People mod their Windows to look like MAC, make their desktop 3D or re-skin it to look like Windows XP. But downloading one single free program to get back a feature they want for an otherwise better OS? Oh no, fuck you Microsoft, you've taken this too far! You can't expect me to spend seconds to completly circumvent your decision and never see your start screen again! I will however spend 5 hours to find a proper crack of Windows 7, all drivers I need and 25 other programs I need to be able to do what I want to do, but a program to get back the start button? Never! As a windows user and a gamer you should really be aware and embrace the fact that the windows experience is entirely up to what you make of it. Any problem you may have with Windows others will have as well, and they will find a way to fix it, that's why programs are made. As a Windows user since Windows 95 I couldn't be happier with Windows 8, and I absolutely can not live without the Start Menu, the Start Screen can fuck right off.

[QUOTE=dgg;43609438]It shouldn't be necessary for me to download Flash to watch videos on youtube, CCleaner to keep my registry clean, DXtory to record videos, Defraggler to properly defrag my disks, Speccy to actually see all the hardware components of my PC and temperatures, Mumble to properly voice chat with friends, ReNamer to properly batch rename files, K-lite Codec Pack to watch common video files, etc etc. I think it's pretty weird from any windows user to suddenly frown on modding their Windows when that's one of the things they usually praise it for, it's customization abilities, it's modding abilities. People mod their Windows to look like MAC, make their desktop 3D or look re-skinned to look like Windows XP. But downloading one single free program to get back a feature they want for an otherwise better OS? Oh no, fuck you Microsoft, you've taken this too far! You can't expect me to spend seconds to completly circumvent your decision and never see your start screen again! I will however spend 5 hours to find a proper crack of Windows 7, all drivers I need and 25 other programs I need to be able to do what I want to do, but a program to get back the start button? Never![/QUOTE] So a handful of acccesory programs is comparable to a vital GUI element that were ditched with no good explanation? [I]wow...[/I]

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43609519]So a handful of acccesory programs is comparable to a vital GUI element that were ditched with no good explanation? [I]wow...[/I][/QUOTE] the start menu is an accessory - i dare you to tell me one thing that you can't do with the combination of the win8 start button + taskbar [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;43606575]I don't insult people for liking Metro, I call out people who use bullshit arguments like: "You're just resistant to change, get with the times!" - Change is not inherently a good thing. "It runs faster!" - It runs 1-3% faster, nothing an average user would notice. "You just haven't used it"/"You didn't give it a proper chance" - As though the only way you can't like W8 is if you haven't used it. Completely false. "The boot times are so quick." - Because boot time is SUCH an important thing, and who doesn't love having a 10GB page file?[/QUOTE] yeah like any of win7's "improvements" are any more significant

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43609519]So a handful of acccesory programs is comparable to a vital GUI element that were ditched with no good explanation? [I]wow...[/I][/QUOTE] They are all programs made to fulfill a need the OS does not provide. So yes, they are fully comparable. The Start Screen a.k.a "Metro Screen" is the start button in a fullscreen format, they decided they would change it up because statistically few people used it and this new format would be useful for tablets without actually removing any functionality for PC users. It did however completely change [I]how[/I] it's used, which people ended up not liking. The explanation is simple: It's useable for everyone no matter the platform whilst keeping the same functionality, the forced part of it is to get people to get used to it (because change does not come if you give people the option to not change), they took a bet and the bet failed, most people did not get used to it, but many others have, people that started out hating it. Why doesn't Microsoft support video playback of h264 files? Why isn't flash built in given it's size? Why can't I find the temperature of my CPU and GPU even though I can find it's performance? Why can't I find the name of my memory sticks? Why do you completely ignore a better OS because there is a feature lacking in it that you can put in again right away? There is no reason for you, you can get what you want, why don't you get it? What kind of a weird principle are you clinging to? There is nothing preventing you from getting the experience you want from Windows 8.

[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43609519]So a handful of acccesory programs is comparable to a vital GUI element that were ditched with no good explanation? [I]wow...[/I][/QUOTE] Actually they made a good deal of blog posts about it, but I suppose it's just easier to be ignorant of that kind of stuff when you need to make a case for something. The explanation is that they thought it would be an improvement, especially for touchscreen users. There's probably a lot more than that, but I think that was pretty much the "good explanation" that you require. Whether it's a good start menu replacement or not can be debated I guess, but honestly I'd rather not do that again.

[QUOTE=Juniez;43609551] yeah like any of win7's "improvements" are any more significant[/QUOTE] The problem with this argument is that you're saying this like Win8's "improvements" are worth over 100$+ When/If it goes on sale, by all means, yeah.

[QUOTE=Kagu;43609662]The problem with this argument is that you're saying this like Win8's "improvements" are worth over 100$+ When/If it goes on sale, by all means, yeah.[/QUOTE] im not saying any of that yall can use whatever u want [QUOTE=Juniez;43332193]if you already have windows 7, don't bother - there's not [I]enough [/I]improvements to justify a 7->8 purchase if not, then windows 8 is the way to go, there's no reason to go out of your way to get win7 for the start menu [I]mega controversy[/I] issue, use the taskbar to pin anything you'd need on hand all the time, and then use metro like a really big second desktop - the amount of time you'll save (or lose) is going to be a fraction of a second max so it doesnt even matter! lol [/QUOTE]

Or you could use Linux. :v:

I have W8 on my touchscreen laptop and it is fine on there, but when I had the beta on my desktop I could not fucking stand it.

[QUOTE=Kagu;43609708]Or you could use Linux. :v:[/QUOTE] I think a big chunk of people using computers would switch to GNU/Linux if they could. But there is still a lot of major programs which have to be ported (correctly, WINE is not that great of an option always). Drivers issues and generally a lot of polishing to be done (Of course, depending on the Distro). [editline]20th January 2014[/editline] It isn't a viable solution to everyone.

[QUOTE=Jalict;43610306]But there is still a lot of major programs which have to be ported (correctly, WINE is not that great of an option always). Drivers issues and generally a lot of polishing to be done (Of course, depending on the Distro). [editline]20th January 2014[/editline] It isn't a viable solution to everyone.[/QUOTE] thinking about these things or even knowing what they mean isn't a viable option to 99% of people

I work at a senior center helping the seniors with any electronics they have or technology problems. I have a ton of seniors who come in with brand new Windows 8 laptops who hate it and want the computer to be like their old one was. They had a routine that worked perfectly fine for them, using the start menu to launch applications and using the desktop a lot, but the new interface is confusing for them and ultimately unnecessary. I first have to tell them about the desktop mode, then I have to tell them about all these new shortcuts and write them down for them, I try to explain the metro applications versus regular applications to them and it confuses them. They don't want things to be hidden from them: having to move their mouse to a corner of the screen for something to pop up or press the right mouse button, which they rarely ever had to do in the first place, is just an extra step they have to remember. They don't care that it's a tiny bit faster, and they don't use any of the advanced features, which sometimes I have to bungle through for them just to change network settings and such. They just wanted a computer that wasn't ridiculously slow like their 6 or 7 year old XP or Vista computer, and now they have to relearn how to use a computer. At the end, they always ask me at least one of the following: A) should they sell the computer and get an older one, B) should they sell it and get an iPad or Mac, or C) how to make it look like their old computer. I usually tell them to stick with what they've got and show them Start8 or similar programs if they don't want to pay for it. But, I'm starting to get seniors coming in that want to buy a new computer, and specifically ask not to have Windows 8 because their friends don't like it. And now that Win 7 is no longer being pushed (except for HP, which I usually don't recommend due to the ridiculous amount of bloatware they shove on there and I end up having to remove for them), I'm not going to have a good solution for them other than buying online, and quite a few seniors still don't feel comfortable doing that. Even my dad, who's been on computers since 3.1, hates 8. My mom's laptop has 8 and he has to use it now that he had to give up his work one, which was 7, and it was hell getting my mom to use 8 since she kept going back to Metro and getting lost. All of my friends use Windows 7 and tell me they have no reason to upgrade. Metro is ultimately unnecessary. In fact, for most people a brand new OS is unnecessary unless it's much faster than their old computer, and from my experience it's not that much faster unless you've got a shitty hard drive (and some of these new laptops come with SSD's just for the operating system, plus when SSDs get more popular the increase in speed will be negligible). Hell, there's still people using XP since they don't want a new operating system because XP worked fine for them. All Microsoft has to do is make Metro optional, and the way to turn it off easy to find, and presto, nearly all problems with Win 8 are solved.

Boot time increases would be marginal on an SSD, windows 7 already boots before the logo animation can get to the looping part. I really cannot see the other speed increases being large enough to be worth hundreds of $$$ for an upgrade then paying more $$$ to fix the UI.

[QUOTE=helifreak;43612045]Boot time increases would be marginal on an SSD, windows 7 already boots before the logo animation can get to the looping part. I really cannot see the other speed increases being large enough to be worth hundreds of $$$ for an upgrade then paying more $$$ to fix the UI.[/QUOTE] I don't know why you would upgrade from 7 to 8 in the first place. Its not a substantial upgrade from 7. It does a few things better than 7, but its not going to be a night and day difference like XP to 8 would be.

honestly i think it's just down to preference at this point

[QUOTE=Demache;43612093]I don't know why you would upgrade from 7 to 8 in the first place. Its not a substantial upgrade from 7. It does a few things better than 7, but its not going to be a night and day difference like XP to 8 would be.[/QUOTE] If you got the initial upgrade offer, I'd say it was very much worth it (and boot times increases are noticeable on an SSD, actually), but yeah - don't waste a $100 upgrading right now.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;43615241]If you got the initial upgrade offer, I'd say it was very much worth it (and boot times increases are noticeable on an SSD, actually), but yeah - don't waste a $100 upgrading right now.[/QUOTE] I got 2 copies for free through Dreamspark. So yeah, def worth it. Not worth a Benjamin though.

I never used the start menu in windows 7 because I do everything through keyboard shortcuts. The new start doesn't bother me in the slightest. Win 8 fully boots to desktop in about 8 seconds, though this same laptop with windows 7 takes roughly two minutes. My performance also significantly increased in some games, such as Payday 2 or BF3. I can't use Win 8.1 though. I had so many compatibility and DPI scaling issues that I downgraded back to Windows 8. On 8.1 every other game I tried to run had some missing .dll error and no graphics injectors worked. (Fxaa , sweetfx, smaa)

[QUOTE=Jalict;43610306]I think a big chunk of people using computers would switch to GNU/Linux if they could. But there is still a lot of major programs which have to be ported (correctly, WINE is not that great of an option always). Drivers issues and generally a lot of polishing to be done (Of course, depending on the Distro). [editline]20th January 2014[/editline] It isn't a viable solution to everyone.[/QUOTE] It would have to be offered at the point of sale for it to be an option for a lot of people.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43605766]Well considering microsoft employees even call Windows 8 "the new vista," this might actually be the case.[/QUOTE] Except the context for that is it's getting a lot of public hate, not that it's actually a shitty OS.