[QUOTE=Broni;24691386]Who's to say that they wouldn't have returned fire and stormed his house if they are so well organized and militaristic? Which they would have had every right to do in considering he fired FIRST. He put his whole family in a shitload more danger by opening fire.[/QUOTE]
Again, [B]he wouldn't have thought of that at the time[/B]
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;24691465]Again, [B]he wouldn't have thought of that at the time[/B][/QUOTE]
Why the fuck not?
He wasn't in any immediate danger so he wasn't under any pressure to make an immediate reaction to the threat outside. He had the presence of mind to fetch his rifle, load it up, open the window and start ripping shots but not to possible concequences of his actions?
I don't think so.
About 20 guys.
30 round magazine -4.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;24687208]Guy deserved it for doing it wrong.
Unless they were either visibly armed, attacking him, or actually IN his house, he shouldn't have pulled the trigger.[/QUOTE]
You've never seen pictures of what the MS13 do to people, have you? If I thought they were part of ANY NY gang I would of done the same thing
[QUOTE=b00ce;24691500]About 20 guys.
30 round magazine -4.[/QUOTE]
For the sake of argument lets say every other bullet is a kill.
I'm pretty sure he'd have time to reload as they tried to scramble over their 15 dead friends.
What MS13 do to people?
I'd love to show them what I'd do to each and every single one of them if they tried to hurt me or my family, I'd open each one of them up with my bare hands and have a damn bath in their organs.
You talk about the survival instinct well if someone put the people I love in IMMEDIATE danger I would have no moral quandry with doing the kind of shit that would make Satan cry.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;24691465]Again, [B]he wouldn't have thought of that at the time[/B][/QUOTE]
Or maybe he would have. Just because you brought up the adrenaline shit doesn't mean you're the ultimate authority on what you will or will not remember when put in danger.
[QUOTE=Broni;24691632]For the sake of argument lets say every other bullet is a kill.
I'm pretty sure he'd have time to reload as they tried to scramble over their 15 dead friends.
What MS13 do to people?
I'd love to show them what I'd do to each and every single one of them if they tried to hurt me or my family, I'd open each one of them up with my bare hands and have a damn bath in their organs.[/QUOTE]
Funny because thats exactly what they would do to you. And no one hits on out of every 2 shots while under fire from 20 other people.
[QUOTE=Broni;24690565]What the fuck are you guys on about, how in christsake was he protecting his family?
There was a possibility of a threat, there wasn't actually a threat at the time. He didn't even see if they were armed or not you dumbfucks.
He fired a high powered assault rifle out onto the street where there could have been innocent bystanders, the ricochet could have injured someone he could have missed and hit a civilian.
HE WAS NOT PROVOKED.
He should have barricaded himself upstairs, found a choke point and waiting until the police arrived.
If they had entered his house then he would have had the right to open fire on them.
Warning shots funnily enough aren't fucking legal.[/QUOTE]
We don't know what caused this event but:
First of all he fired the shots into his lawn, where there is very little chance or ricochet, not the street.
Second, we honestly don't know if the gang was armed or not, or if they were even MS-13. If they weren't, then they probably either had nothing or just knives. If they were, then they'd definitely have melee weapons, if not handguns.
I watched the video and his house is not super big. I assume from the build his staircase to the second floor can either be directly accessed from the front door or is slightly off from the front door. Also considering the fact that there are many windows on the first floor and they lack bars the only logical chokepoint would be the staircase. The problem with that is by setting yourself up in the second floor you essentially trap yourself and would have to rely either on good shooting skills which I doubt a civilian would have, or the cops. If he was a good shot he would be able to take them all out with one bullet to spare. Anything less than that he would have to reload, allowing the gang ample time to rush.
The problem is that Uniondale is a primarily black neighborhood, meaning the cops would be less inclined to rush to their aid, hence why he shot the ground to alert the shotspotter to get the cops' attention.
Also, if the gang had anything like molotov cocktails or ranged weaponry they would be able to burn the house or shoot it up.
Honestly it would have been better to bring the gun down but not show it to the gang. By walking out with an ak Grier automatically escalated the situation. If they started walking or they gave sign of presenting weapons he could have presented it in return with more cause. But in situations like that, which most of us have thankfully never been in, I doubt many of us would be thinking clearly and many would probably do the same.
[QUOTE=markfu;24691731]
The problem is that Uniondale is a primarily black neighborhood, meaning the cops would be less inclined to rush to their aid, hence why he shot the ground to alert the shotspotter to get the cops' attention.
[/QUOTE]
brothers would have helped him out if it came to some crazy shit
Plausible threat. [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/rating/tick.png[/IMG]
Feeling threatened. [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/rating/tick.png[/IMG]
Obligation to protect family. [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/rating/tick.png[/IMG]
Gave verbal warnings. [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/rating/tick.png[/IMG]
Fired warning shot. [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/rating/tick.png[/IMG]
While what he did wasn't ideal, it was a pretty intelligent and safe decision.
[QUOTE=Broni;24691632]For the sake of argument lets say every other bullet is a kill.
I'm pretty sure he'd have time to reload as they tried to scramble over their 15 dead friends.
What MS13 do to people?
I'd love to show them what I'd do to each and every single one of them if they tried to hurt me or my family, I'd open each one of them up with my bare hands and have a damn bath in their organs.
You talk about the survival instinct well if someone put the people I love in IMMEDIATE danger I would have no moral quandry with doing the kind of shit that would make Satan cry.[/QUOTE]
Haha, you couldn't do shit, you'd be on the ground screaming with too many missing pieces to count.
I would have picked the gangmembers off with my M14 then claimed self defence
[QUOTE=EDDY TT;24687960]The AK47 is sold as semi-automatic to civilians, you need to be a dealer to actually obtain a full automatic variant.
Also as much as you people are saying this is wrong, the gang which was outside is actually in the right according to the judge, but if they took one step through his door the guy had all rights to scare them off or shoot them.
However this now brings the argument of saying isn't the driveway part of the property?
Because logically it is and the gang is then trespassing on his property, giving the guy all rights to defend his land and family, especially with such a large group standing on it.
Overall the law is flawed.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think it's fucked up that there is a distinction between a house and the rest of your property. If I buy a piece of ground measuring in at one acre, that whole acre is my property not just the bit my house sits on.
[QUOTE=Broni;24691632]I'd love to show them what I'd do to each and every single one of them if they tried to hurt me or my family, I'd open each one of them up with my bare hands and have a damn bath in their organs.
You talk about the survival instinct well if someone put the people I love in IMMEDIATE danger I would have no moral quandry with doing the kind of shit that would make Satan cry.[/QUOTE]
don't mess with this guy
[QUOTE=Broni;24691632]
I'd love to show them what I'd do to each and every single one of them if they tried to hurt me or my family, I'd open each one of them up with my bare hands and have a damn bath in their organs.
You talk about the survival instinct well if someone put the people I love in IMMEDIATE danger I would have no moral quandry with doing the kind of shit that would make Satan cry.[/QUOTE]
TUFF AS NALS
ahha what the fuck
[QUOTE=Broni;24691632]I would have no moral quandry with doing the kind of shit that would make Satan cry.[/QUOTE]
Get
the FUCK
OFF
[B]MY LAWN.[/B]
If you live in the states, there's three laws relating to self-defense of your person, your loved ones and your property.
Stand-your-ground law: Gives the legal resident the right to use deadly force against any intruder on their property with no duty to retreat, or "give ground" to an intruder. This means if they're on your property line, you can shoot them.
States with stand-your-ground law:
Montana
Alabama
Arizona
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kentucky
Louisiana
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Washington
Castle Law/Doctrine: A more limited form of Stand-your-ground in that you can defend yourself, loved ones, and property from an intruder attempting to forcibly enter your home, or is inside the home. This means unless they enter your home you cannot use deadly force.
States with Castle Law:
Alaska
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Illinois
Kansas
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Mississippi
Missouri
North Dakota
Ohio
Oregon
New Jersey
North Carolina
Rhode Island
Utah
West Virginia
Wyoming.
Duty-to-retreat: You're legally required to retreat from your home if an intruder is attempting to commit a felony inside, if you are unable to retreat you must state your intention to use deadly force before doing so. Warning shots are illegal and brandishing the weapon can be result in criminal charges against you.
States with duty-to-retreat laws:
Iowa
Nebraska
New Hampshire
New Mexaco
Nevada
Virginia
Vermont
District of Columbia.
Some states have a limited form of the Castle Doctrine in that they rely on case law instead of any of the above legislation.
Idaho - "Homicide is justified if defending a home from "tumultuous" entry; duty to retreat not specifically removed."
New York - "Deadly force justified to prevent burglary or arson of the home."
Pennsylvania - "Deadly force itself is not justifiable unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat."
South Dakota - "Homicide is justifiable if committed by any person while resisting any attempt to murder such person, or to commit any felony upon him or her, or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person is."
Generally good to know information if you're ever in a situation like this man dealt with. According to New York state law he was in the wrong. Granted I would have done the same in his situation.
Of course he was fucking arrested, are you people stupid?
You're not allowed to own assault rifles in New York, without some heavy licensing. he clearly had it illegally. Being arrested doesn't mean you're being put in a federal prison, it means the police bring you in for questioning.. and that was the correct thing to do. It sounds like he basically got off scot-free.
20 people punching you/beating you [b]is[/b] life threatening. Given he hadn't actually been hit yet, hopefully he isn't charged with anything too stupid. I'm glad I live in South Dakota and there's no gangsters here, just wanksters who'd shit themselves if I even pulled my shotgun out.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;24692995]Of course he was fucking arrested, are you people stupid?
You're not allowed to own assault rifles in New York, without some heavy licensing. he clearly had it illegally. Being arrested doesn't mean you're being put in a federal prison, it means the police bring you in for questioning.. and that was the correct thing to do. It sounds like he basically got off scot-free.[/QUOTE]
Assault rifle = rifle, they're allowed in New York. Unless it was automatic, and then you can get a Class 3 weapons license, and it's legal.
If anyone wants to read about MS13
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Salvatrucha[/url]
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;24692995]Of course he was fucking arrested, are you people stupid?
You're not allowed to own assault rifles in New York, without some heavy licensing. he clearly had it illegally. Being arrested doesn't mean you're being put in a federal prison, it means the police bring you in for questioning.. and that was the correct thing to do. It sounds like he basically got off scot-free.[/QUOTE]
Read the article and previous posts. He had the rifle legally, it's not an assault rifle because it has one firing mode (Semi-automatic).
[QUOTE=Broni;24691632]For the sake of argument lets say every other bullet is a kill.
I'm pretty sure he'd have time to reload as they tried to scramble over their 15 dead friends. [/QUOTE]
"Would you please line up so I can shoot you?"
It isn't a movie. If the guys in the street had been willing to die, they easily could've killed the guy with the AK.
To be fair, I can understand arresting the guy. He did just fire a weapon in a public place, but trying to level absurd charges against him will never fly.
Also, I'm very glad I live in Indiana and I'm not required to run away from someone who illegally enters my property.
I don't approve to guns being legal, what is this guy being charged for exacly? If he didn't have a license and it was illegal then he should be arrested for that.
I'm not saying he was the bad guy here though.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;24693156]I don't approve to guns being legal, but this is quite so bullshit. He had the right to defend himself.[/QUOTE]
What? Seriously? Move to Russia. :colbert:
Sorry, had to edit my post.
He shot at his property, don't see the issue here. Any good lawyer is going to turn this around, he wasn't shooting at the people, he was shooting at his property which is legal. Its his property.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;24687271]1. Verbally warn the group that if they enter your house they will be shot, and that you are calling the police.
2. Shut and lock door.
3. Call police, get family to safe area, guard them.
4. Profit.
Edit:
And even better if you can get a video of you verbally warning them. That would give you a rock solid case if god forbid you did have to shoot someone.[/QUOTE]
this is a very nice list of things to do but rethink
you have a family
20 gengsters outside your house
do you follow the plan
[QUOTE=Broni;24691453]Well personally I'd be thinking logically enough to not open fire on a bunch of guys who are armed to the teeth and may or may not have any hesitation in storming my house and killing me and my family.
If they entered his actual domicile and he'd opened fire and killed them he most likely would have got off with justifiable homicide.[/QUOTE]
Can you stop being an arm chair general and describing the perfect situation for you? You don't know what was happening, you also have no clue what you'd have been feeling in this guys shoes.
You come across as one of those idiots who think they could do a better job than the army
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;24692995]Of course he was fucking arrested, are you people stupid?
You're not allowed to own assault rifles in New York, without some heavy licensing. he clearly had it illegally. Being arrested doesn't mean you're being put in a federal prison, it means the police bring you in for questioning.. and that was the correct thing to do. It sounds like he basically got off scot-free.[/QUOTE]
Wrong.
You can own rifles just like handguns, but in the us rifles like the akm/47 is modified to shoot only 1 firing mode; Single.
If you can obtain the legal documents you can also buy a modified version of the retail gun in order to have a fully auto rifle.
Do you know what MS-13 does to people when they want them killed?
They torture them for hours, and when it finally comes to killing time they stab them 13 times, and cut their head off.
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