[QUOTE=teh pirate;40972144]Or you could just shoot for the torso like you're supposed to[/QUOTE]
That would kill him.
[QUOTE=The golden;40972028]Wow. Shots aimed at non-vital parts of the body with the intent to disable rather than kill. What a novel idea. US should consider this idea next time they put 25 bullets into a guy wielding a butter knife.[/QUOTE] It is not a matter of skill, but luck when attempting to do a non-lethal shot.
[URL="http://filesmelt.com/"][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Circulatory_System_en.svg_.png[/IMG][/URL]
Those there are the major arteries and veins. Then one has to take into account the major organs (the liver and intestines are particularly absent from the picture), and the difficulty to hit e.g. a foot.
There's a video on Youtube of an American surgeon lecturing students on gunshot wounds, he explained the main cause of death from gunshot wounds is bleeding to death. I'll see if I can find it again.
[editline]edit[/editline]
[video=youtube;wXwPtP-KDNk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk[/video]
Don't get me wrong, the more the police can do to avoid death the better; but guns are absolutely shit for that sort of thing.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972129]Or you can empty the entire mag into his legs. I doubt he'll still be a ''threat'' after that.[/QUOTE]Yeah, he'd likely die from blood loss instead.
[quote]Also we don't know if the cop wasn't aiming for center mass, he could just be an awful shot and it worked out in their favor. It happens. [/quote]
Finnish police are encouraged to go for non-lethal shots first. Especially if handguns are involved, since in most cases a handgun in Finland will be A. airsoft. B. start-gun, like in this case, and the police know this.
My aunt's husband is working for the Helsinki police department and I think he's only been threatened with a real gun once in his 30 years of employment.
[quote]Also how did the bullet not hit bone, there's quite a lot of it in your foot? [/quote]
Because I'm pretty sure they meant leg in the article, not foot.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972129]Or you can empty the entire mag into his legs. I doubt he'll still be a ''threat'' after that.[/QUOTE]
it's easier to shoot at someone's center since it's a bigger target.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972156]That would kill him.[/QUOTE]
Not as fast as 2 broken arteries in the legs? You can bleed out in like five minutes from just one busted artery.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;40972170]
Yeah, he'd likely die from blood loss instead.[/QUOTE]
At least he still has a small chance to live.
It's worth a shot.
[editline]10th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=teh pirate;40972192]Not as fast as 2 broken arteries in the legs? You can bleed out in like five minutes from just one busted artery.[/QUOTE]
You'd die a lot faster if you get hit in the heart.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972194]At least he still has a small chance to live.
It's worth a shot.
[editline]10th June 2013[/editline]
You'd die a lot faster if you get hit in the heart.[/QUOTE]
I dunno about you but my heart isn't the only organ in my torso
[QUOTE=The golden;40972028]Wow. Shots aimed at non-vital parts of the body with the intent to disable rather than kill. What a novel idea. US should consider this idea next time they put 25 bullets into a guy wielding a butter knife.[/QUOTE]
"Get the grenade launcher he's got a pencil!"
[QUOTE=The golden;40972229]Yes hi. I'm not a professionally trained in firearms use like police officers are.[/QUOTE]
My point is that feet are erratic targets and not worth trying to hit with a gun.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972194]At least he still has a small chance to live.
It's worth a shot.
[editline]10th June 2013[/editline]
You'd die a lot faster if you get hit in the heart.[/QUOTE]
It's a hell of a lot easier to hit a major artery in a leg than it is to hit someone's heart as legs are very much smaller than the torso.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;40972204]I dunno about you but my heart isn't the only organ in my torso[/QUOTE]
Heart/lungs/major arteries surrounding it. That's the point of shooting them in the legs, you're trying to avoid killing them as much as possible while still stopping them.
If some guy has a knife and is coming at me and I have an MP5 I'd shoot him in the legs if I was trying to stop him without killing him and maybe he'll have a chance to live if he's lucky and the paramedics are nearby.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;40972144]Or you could just shoot for the torso like you're supposed to[/QUOTE]
We're not supposed to anything.
[QUOTE=The golden;40972301]Obviously they are if Finnish police are instructed to go for them first before a lethal shot. They wouldn't be wasting their time with something that didn't work - especially when someone is running at you and is armed.[/QUOTE]They're instructed to go for non-lethal shots first, not specifically feet. Plus the guy wasn't running.
[QUOTE=The golden;40972301]Obviously they are if Finnish police are instructed to go for them first before a lethal shot. They wouldn't be wasting their time with something that didn't work - especially when someone is running at you and is armed.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe he was aiming for the foot, I think he missed his target and got the foot by luck.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;40972247]My point is that feet are erratic targets and not worth trying to hit with a gun.[/QUOTE]
You can shoot the thigh and the front of the leg. If he dies because it hit a artery, then it doesn't matter he picked a fight with the police and he got unlucky. If he survived then good maybe he learned not to pick fights he can't possibly win.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972313]Heart/lungs/major arteries surrounding it. That's the point of shooting them in the legs, you're trying to avoid killing them as much as possible while still stopping them.
If some guy has a knife and is coming at me and I have an MP5 I'd shoot him in the legs if I was trying to stop him without killing him and maybe he'll have a chance to live if he's lucky and the paramedics are nearby.[/QUOTE]
I'd wager it's actually safer to shoot center mass as there's a greater chance you don't hit something important.
i mean tazers are cool too
[QUOTE=Monkey pie;40972343]You can shoot the thigh and the front of the leg. If he dies because it hit a artery, then it doesn't matter he picked a fight with the police and he got unlucky. If he survived then good maybe he learned not to pick fights he can't possibly win.[/QUOTE]
Okay so clearly his survival isn't important to you so why not guarantee the safety of the officers and shoot for center mass, which is basically a guaranteed hit and immediate put-down unless they're on PCP or a similar drug
[QUOTE=yellowoboe;40972212]"Get the grenade launcher he's got a pencil!"[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't be surprised, police love their tear gas
[QUOTE=teh pirate;40972334]I don't believe he was aiming for the foot, I think he missed his target and got the foot by luck.[/QUOTE]
I highly doubt a trained police officer would miss a body shot at 25 feet and hit them in the foot.
It may come as a surprise to some of you from a nation with a somewhat backwards police force but in other countries we try not to pepper a suspect with bullets as soon as they try something.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40972368]I wouldn't be surprised, police love their tear gas[/QUOTE]
Tear gas/CS gas is quite survivable and effective at incapacitating people. If you want nonlethal gas is really the way to go.
[editline]10th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Complifused;40972382]I highly doubt a trained police officer would miss a body shot at 25 feet and hit them in the foot.
It may come as a surprise to some of you from a nation with a somewhat backwards police force but in other countries we try not to pepper a suspect with bullets as soon as they try something.[/QUOTE]
I don't think he was shooting for the torso either. I think he was shooting for the legs.
[QUOTE=mobrockers;40972346]I'd wager it's actually safer to shoot center mass as there's a greater chance you don't hit something important.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Circulatory_System_en.svg_.png[/IMG]
Arteries and veins take up a greater ratio of the overall diameter of the leg than the torso, but the torso has the major organs. Shooting the leg is not much better than shooting the torso to be honest (severing the femoral artery in particular is basically a death sentence unless paramedics are right there); at least in this case they had the opportunity to shoot the guy in the foot instead.
Then shoot them in the dick!
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;40972408][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/Circulatory_System_en.svg_.png[/IMG]
Arteries and veins take up a greater ratio of the overall diameter of the leg than the torso, but the torso has the major organs. Shooting the leg is not much better than shooting the torso to be honest (severing the femoral artery in particular is basically a death sentence unless paramedics are right there); at least in this case they had the opportunity to shoot the guy in the foot instead.[/QUOTE]
The torso has more 'safe' area than the leg / arm / foot so statistically it should be safer to shoot center mass.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972471]Then shoot them in the dick![/QUOTE]
You bleed out really fast from the dick
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972471]Then shoot them in the dick![/QUOTE]
No man, no matter how vile his deeds, deserves that fate.
Just to clear this up, he was not shot in the FOOT, but the leg.
[quote]Police shot a man MP5 sub-machine gun with a single shot to the left leg. A man fell down, and the police took him. The man was given first aid, and he was hospitalized.[/quote]
From the source.
[QUOTE=areolop;40972586]Just to clear this up, he was not shot in the FOOT, but the leg.
From the source.[/QUOTE]
All right, so there you have it
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40972471]Then shoot them in the dick![/QUOTE]An organ that is basically a tube that fills with blood. What a brilliant idea.
either way firearms should be treated as a lethal weapon in all cases.
Israelis tried classifying the 10/22 Ruger as non-lethal while only shooting at legs... it ended up killing regardless
didn't work out for them and the .22LR has a lot less energy than 9mm.
[url]http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/another-made-in-usa-“less-lethal”-weapon-kills-in-palestine.html[/url]
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