Trust me, all firearms are considered lethal weapons in any and all cases. Tasers too can jump into that category under circumstances
[QUOTE=areolop;40972859]Trust me, all firearms are considered lethal weapons in any and all cases. Tasers too can jump into that category under circumstances[/QUOTE]
so if they are why are people saying that police should attempt to use them in a non-lethal manner?
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40972992]so if they are why are people saying that police should attempt to use them in a non-lethal manner?[/QUOTE]
Because they don't know what they're talking about
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40972992]so if they are why are people saying that police should attempt to use them in a non-lethal manner?[/QUOTE]
Officers decision. I cant speak for others actions. I've been trained to always shoot center mass regardless of whats showing
I love how armchair tacticians that have never fired a weapon make assumptions that shooting a person in the leg is better than aiming for the center of mass.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40972992]so if they are why are people saying that police should attempt to use them in a non-lethal manner?[/QUOTE]
Not non-lethal in the "shoot to not kill" sense. If police decide to shoot, they obviously have already assessed the situation to be dangerous enough that the suspect has to be taken down, one way or another. However, they can still attempt to shoot him in a way that may not instantly kill him, so as to give him a chance.
All of this obviously depending on the severity of the situation, sometimes you just have to unload on the guy to save your or someone else's life.
[QUOTE=areolop;40973207]Officers decision. I cant speak for others actions. I've been trained to always shoot center mass regardless of whats showing[/QUOTE]
What if they have a vest on?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40973354]What if they have a vest on?[/QUOTE]
like in the north hollywood shootout?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40973354]What if they have a vest on?[/QUOTE]
You'll probably still go down and might even die from internal bleeding even with a vest on. It'll at least hurt like hell so your movement will be severely hindered.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40973354]What if they have a vest on?[/QUOTE]
Vests make it more likely you'll survive being shot, but the sheer force of the impact is going to down them, and likely break a few ribs.
Hmm....what if they stack a bunch of vests together and make a shield out of it like captain america.
Or maybe put a bunch of them stacked in front of a riot shield and shoot out from the sides.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40974055]Hmm....what if they stack a bunch of vests together and make a shield out of it like captain america.
Or maybe put a bunch of them stacked in front of a riot shield and shoot out from the sides.[/QUOTE]Have you ever worn a bulletproof vest with ballistic plates? They're heavy as fuck.
[QUOTE=areolop;40973488]like in the north hollywood shootout?[/QUOTE]
[quote]The two well-armored men had fired approximately 1,100 rounds, while approximately 650 rounds were fired by police.[2] The responding patrol officers directed their fire at the "center of mass," or torsos, of Mătăsăreanu and Phillips. However, aramid body armor worn by Phillips and Mătăsăreanu covered all of their vitals (except their heads) while providing more bullet resistance than standard-issue police Kevlar vests, enabling them to deflect pistol bullets and shotgun pellets, while Mătăsăreanu's chest armor even successfully withstood a hit from a SWAT operator's AR-15. Each man was shot and penetrated by at least ten bullets, yet both were able to continue shooting.[/quote]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout[/url]
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40974055]Hmm....what if they stack a bunch of vests together and make a shield out of it like captain america.
Or maybe put a bunch of them stacked in front of a riot shield and shoot out from the sides.[/QUOTE]
Let's run this into the ground already.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Killdozer.jpg[/img]
I'm on the side of the policeman on this one. They gave the guy a warning and he kept coming towards them, if I seen someone with a weapon walking towards me that didn't put it down when I asked them to I'd probably feel threatened as well.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40974055]Hmm....what if they stack a bunch of vests together and make a shield out of it like captain america.
Or maybe put a bunch of them stacked in front of a riot shield and shoot out from the sides.[/QUOTE]
riot shield would shatter, they're not designed to withstand bullets, since most [b]riot[/b]ers don't have guns
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40974269]riot shield would shatter, they're not designed to withstand bullets, since most [b]riot[/b]ers don't have guns[/QUOTE]
Read my post, I meant stack a bunch of bulletproof vests with trauma plates in front of the riot shield, as in duck tape them to the front of the thing.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;40974269]riot shield would shatter, they're not designed to withstand bullets, since most [b]riot[/b]ers don't have guns[/QUOTE]
But it's bulletproof in CoD!
Lets not play the "what if" game
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40974317]Read my post, I meant stack a bunch of bulletproof vests with trauma plates in front of the riot shield, as in duck tape them to the front of the thing.[/QUOTE]
At that point, why not get an actual ballistic shield?
[QUOTE=areolop;40974367]Lets not play the "what if" game[/QUOTE]
Yeah, besides that hollywood shootout proves my point.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40974317]Read my post, I meant stack a bunch of bulletproof vests with trauma plates in front of the riot shield, as in duck tape them to the front of the thing.[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously suggesting this? Have you no idea how much a ceramic kevlar plate weighs?
It's going to make the shield heavy, cumbersome, bulky. You're better off just wearing one and having a sidearm or a weapon in hand instead of just holding a heavy-ass shield that may need two men to carry/
[QUOTE=deadoon;40974375]At that point, why not get an actual ballistic shield?[/QUOTE]
They make those?
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40974395]Yeah, besides that hollywood shootout proves my point.[/QUOTE]
My response to "if they had vests and were shooting at police" would be that they would be killed
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40974409]They make those?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but the normal sized ones are meant to be repositionable personal cover, the huge ones that cover your entire body are rare.
Found a good example of why they are pretty bad
[URL]http://www.englands1.com/military-products/modular-ballistic-shield/[/URL]
12-23 KG
For us Americans around 27- 50 lb.
Someone did their job and has to write a report.
Apparently this is enough to start a debate on policing tactics.
[QUOTE=deadoon;40974477]Yes, but the normal sized ones are meant to be repositionable personal cover, the huge ones that cover your entire body are rare.
Found a good example of why they are pretty bad
[URL]http://www.englands1.com/military-products/modular-ballistic-shield/[/URL]
12-23 KG
For us Americans around 27- 50 lb.[/QUOTE]
Can't wait until they make a super light super strong graphene version of it that can stop howitzer rounds.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;40972365]Okay so clearly his survival isn't important to you so why not guarantee the safety of the officers and shoot for center mass, which is basically a guaranteed hit and immediate put-down unless they're on PCP or a similar drug[/QUOTE]
Its like you are trying to not see the point lmfao.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;40975341]Can't wait until they make a super light super strong graphene version of it that can stop howitzer rounds.[/QUOTE]
Are you on drugs or what.
[QUOTE=mobrockers;40975499]Are you on drugs or what.[/QUOTE]
Nope, just optimistic.
I was reading an article about it earlier.
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