Obama, urging gun control, says 'shame on us' if people forget Newtown victims - Polidicks

[t]http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y505/Jager242/Arsenal/IMG_20121229_144139.jpg[/t] Guys please help, I'm ten times more likely to commit suicide because of my harmless hobby!

[QUOTE=Jagur;40096777][t]http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y505/Jager242/Arsenal/IMG_20121229_144139.jpg[/t] Guys please help, I'm ten times more likely to commit suicide because of my harmless hobby![/QUOTE] Statistically it is between 2 and 10 times so chin up.

i like how everyone's super supportive of scientific studies and statistics until it comes to the guns, at which point it's just [I]them[/I] trying to steal your stuff

[QUOTE=HkSniper;40096502]What I would like to see is the comparison between firearms suicide and other means. Firearm suicide is not as common here, we mainly deal with cutters and medication overdoses.[/QUOTE] Again you suffer from a chronic disability at reading statistics. 'cutters' and overdoses only make up around 5% of all suicides respectively. Stop making bullshit up because you know you don't actually have anything with substance.

[QUOTE=Cone;40096882]i like how everyone's super supportive of scientific studies and statistics until it comes to the guns, at which point it's just [I]them[/I] trying to steal your stuff[/QUOTE] Because most of the time [i]they[/i] are. Nothing needs to be done with firearm regulation, If anything less regulation is needed.

[QUOTE=Cone;40096882]i like how everyone's super supportive of scientific studies and statistics until it comes to the guns, at which point it's just [I]them[/I] trying to steal your stuff[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=NoDachi;40081660]Its like trying to argue with creationists sometimes.[/QUOTE] From page 1.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40096903]From page 1.[/QUOTE] At this point it's not even worth arguing with you it just seems like you get off of telling people on the other side of the world how to run their country and decide what they are allowed to have. You have no idea what it's like and just google statistics then make your closed minded posts about how "guns wil mk u suicide". And if i do decide to shoot myself on the spot one day good, At least i won't have to see that fucking cat with glasses in a fucking gun control thread another day.

[QUOTE=felix the cat;40096196]Except your statistics imply that said suicidal person would not attempt commit suicide if they did not have access to a gun, which is entirely false. The statistics also imply that a person who previously has zero suicidal thought is suddenly going to want to commit suicide just because they have a gun. [editline]30th March 2013[/editline] People commit suicide because they're depressed and have no more will to live, not because they have access to a method of killing themselves. SUICIDAL PEOPLE WILL GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO KILL THEMSELVES DO YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO UNDERSTANDING OF DEPRESSION AND SUICIDE?[/QUOTE] Felix, you know I'm pro-gun but when a higher percentage of suicides involve people who own or have access to guns there's a clear link that can't be disputed. If (totally hypothetical numbers here) 40% of households contain guns, but 80% of the households of people who commit suicide contain guns, then obviously there is some connection.

[QUOTE=Jagur;40096926]At this point it's not even worth arguing with you it just seems like you get off of telling people on the other side of the world how to run their country and decide what they are allowed to have. You have no idea what it's like and just google statistics then make your closed minded posts about how "guns wil mk u suicide". And if i do decide to shoot myself on the spot one day good, At least i won't have to see that fucking cat with glasses in a fucking gun control thread another day.[/QUOTE] The standard "you don't live here" argument. Okay is that it? You see, I don't have to live there. I'm just linking studies from people who [I]do live there.[/I] Its almost redundant what I think if I'm just being a 3rd party here. Of course there is no point arguing with me, because you're totally incapable of substantiating anything.

Congratulations, We just don't give a fuck about your suicide argument because we don't feel like giving up our rights due to the actions of a statistical blip. You know something that probably helps explain those numbers, by the way? A lot of suicides are made by members of the military after they come back from war and have to put up with our shitty system. These Military members are typically the type that would own a firearm. In 2010, the Suicide rate was 12.4 per 100,000 in the U.S., that number isn't great but it's not enough to convince us to remove our rights to a means of self defense, because unlike some people, when shit hits the fan we might actually want to live through it, instead of just commit suicide like sobotnik. Not to mention that people who commit suicide can just typically find another method, Guns don't cause suicide. They're a tool used by those who want to.

At least there's an easy method of suicide, we don't have to jump in front of trains like the Japanese. just gotta look at the positives lol

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;40097735]At least there's an easy method of suicide, we don't have to jump in front of trains like the Japanese. just gotta look at the positives lol[/QUOTE] I heard a lot of people still do that in subway systems in the U.S. anyways? ban trains.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;40097855]I heard a lot of people still do that in subway systems in the U.S. anyways? ban trains.[/QUOTE] When was a train last used to intentionally kill 20 school children

[QUOTE=James*;40097888]When was a train last used to intentionally kill 20 school children[/QUOTE] haha oh this one again ha.

[QUOTE=Jagur;40098058]haha oh this one again ha.[/QUOTE] Obviously your hobby is more important

[QUOTE=soulharvester;40097633]Congratulations, We just don't give a fuck about your suicide argument because we don't feel like giving up our rights due to the actions of a statistical blip. You know something that probably helps explain those numbers, by the way? A lot of suicides are made by members of the military after they come back from war and have to put up with our shitty system. These Military members are typically the type that would own a firearm. In 2010, the Suicide rate was 12.4 per 100,000 in the U.S., that number isn't great but it's not enough to convince us to remove our rights to a means of self defense, because unlike some people, when shit hits the fan we might actually want to live through it, instead of just commit suicide like sobotnik. Not to mention that people who commit suicide can just typically find another method, Guns don't cause suicide. They're a tool used by those who want to.[/QUOTE] hello I'm soulharvester and I haven't read a single thing posted in this thread. Because I'd rather remain oblivious than change my opinion. P.s. this how 'suicide' debacle only happened because people like yourself couldn't understand simple statistics. It should have ended after the first citation.

Every policy should be backed by statistics and econometrics. But statistics and econometrics aren't enough to justify a policy.

[QUOTE=cccritical;40083801]bows and arrows are weapons designed to hurt people, not a recreational tool tl;dr everything originally designed as a weapon MAY ACTUALLY HAVE legitimate uses[/QUOTE] if I had a pound for every time this argument was wheeled out on facepunch, I'd be able to buy every fucking knife, gun, javelin and bow and craft them into some kind of enormous monument saying "comparing guns to fucking javelins is the dumbest imaginable comparison" [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082297]Its not, but calling every gun owner a racist is pretty fucking rude.[/QUOTE] I feel for you nodachi, I would have raged at this [QUOTE=soulharvester;40097855]I heard a lot of people still do that in subway systems in the U.S. anyways? ban trains.[/QUOTE] oh my god please no

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;40098290]I feel for you nodachi, I would have raged at this[/QUOTE] ITT: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjoEgYOgRo[/media] but a little more buttmad and less smiley.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40098343]ITT: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjoEgYOgRo[/media] but a little more buttmad and less smiley.[/QUOTE] I just watched that, actually. Richard Dawkins must have a person clenching his butts for him or something.

I can't be hassled to read the whole thread, what's your proposal NoDachi? (I'm pro-gun and acknowledge the evidence you've posted).

[QUOTE=Black Milano;40098569]I can't be hassled to read the whole thread, what's your proposal NoDachi? (I'm pro-gun and acknowledge the evidence you've posted).[/QUOTE] I think its only something Americans can work out themselves, over time. Generally bans won't work until there is a social call for one, ya know, democratic accountability and all that. But I'm just providing criticism on the ability to pretend there isn't a problem, for what ever reason. I also think suicide is the elephant in the room with this issue as well - and needs to be discussed, in case you haven't already guessed.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40098647]I think its only something Americans can work out themselves, over time. Generally bans won't work until there is a social call for one, ya know, democratic accountability and all that. But I'm just providing criticism on the ability to pretend there isn't a problem, for what ever reason.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I think there aren't as many people who think there isn't a problem as you're making it out to be. When every other post of yours turns into "ITT: gun nuts do X" I think people get a little defensive.

[QUOTE=James*;40098123]Obviously your hobby is more important[/QUOTE] how dare you deprive me of my painless way out who do you think you are

[QUOTE=Protocol7;40098671]Honestly, I think there aren't as many people who think there isn't a problem as you're making it out to be. When every other post of yours turns into "ITT: gun nuts do X" I think people get a little defensive.[/QUOTE] The first half of the first page was people pretending there wasn't a problem. That is where I came in. Of course I come across as combative, I'm trying to be. Its impossible to provoke a sensible debate or force anyone to provide a credible scientific report just to shut me up. Literally all I've got from this thread is people who are either incapable of reading simple sentences or the whitewashing 'you don't live here'.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40098717]The first half of the first page was people pretending there wasn't a problem. That is where I came in.[/QUOTE] No, the first half of the page is mostly people who are fed up with the idea that guns are the root cause. Hell, some dude even says something along the lines of "guns aren't the root issue but they certainly aren't helping anything." There is a gun violence problem in the U.S. but the majority of the 300 million guns that aren't harming anyone shouldn't be lumped into one category whenever someone stupid does something bad with a gun.

[QUOTE=Jagur;40098058]haha oh this one again ha.[/QUOTE] "Hey maybe if I laugh it off I can pretend there isn't a problem! If I don't think there's a problem then there isn't one!" Seriously, come back when you know how to debate.

I tend to think it's a problem not worth solving. In a country with +300,000,000 guns and 80,000,000 gun owners, the resources involved to implement an effective gun ban in some form are astronomical, not to mention you'd have to violate a fundamental American right. This is just a hunch obviously, but I'm pretty sure it's both more socially desirable and cost beneficial to study and address the underlying causes of gun violence, which we don't know at all, rather than blindly ban guns and hope it has a positive effect.

[QUOTE=Black Milano;40098795]I tend to think it's a problem not worth solving. In a country with +300,000,000 guns and 80,000,000 gun owners, the resources involved to implement an effective gun ban in some form are astronomical, not to mention you'd have to violate a fundamental American right. This is just a hunch obviously, but I'm pretty sure it's both more socially desirable and cost beneficial to study and address the underlying causes of gun violence, which we don't know at all, rather than blindly ban guns and hope it has a positive effect.[/QUOTE] I'd personally love for Detroit to be a desirable city to live in. I don't think anyone who lives there really [I]wants[/I] to.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;40098770]No, the first half of the page is mostly people who are fed up with the idea that guns are the root cause. Hell, some dude even says something along the lines of "guns aren't the root issue but they certainly aren't helping anything." There is a gun violence problem in the U.S. but the majority of the 300 million guns that aren't harming anyone shouldn't be lumped into one category whenever someone stupid does something bad with a gun.[/QUOTE] But guns are the common denominator. And the fact that the majority of guns don't cause harm is meaningless, because that is not how statistics work. Because if X% go missing, or misused or outright used for travesty then the fact that you live in a country so saturated with them that having 300m does start to become a problem.