Obama, urging gun control, says 'shame on us' if people forget Newtown victims - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Reds;40081696]It's a joke, man. I'm not going to speak my mind about gun control here, it's Facepunch, anyway.[/QUOTE] My favourite is flat out denying that guns have anything to do with it. Its like denying tectonic plates in geology. It even sounds stupid saying it out loud. "Guns have nothing to do with shootings".

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081584]The USA is statistically less violent than Britain, yet has an embarrassing homicide rate. I don't think I've ever seen The Economist call anyone an idiot before, but they're right.[/QUOTE] That economist statement you quoted presented a false dichotomy. It said that either you believe that guns are the reason why gun violence happens, or you believe Americans are just inherently more murderous. It doesn't even entertain the idea that the root cause of gun violence is another issue, it just calls anyone who attempts to provide a counterargument an idiot.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081736]My favourite is flat out denying that guns have anything to do with it. Its like denying tectonic plates in geology. It even sounds stupid saying it out loud. "Guns have nothing to do with shootings".[/QUOTE] Yeah, a lot of people act like as if guns are just harmless toys made for fun and recreation that are simply sometimes misused. They're not the root of the problem in most mass shootings, but they sure as hell contribute to them.

[QUOTE=Valnar;40081786]That economist statement you quoted presented a false dichotomy. It said that either you believe that guns are the reason why gun violence happens, or you believe Americans are just inherently more murderous. It doesn't even entertain the idea that the root cause of gun violence is another issue, it just calls anyone who attempts to provide a counterargument an idiot.[/QUOTE] What is this mythical reason that everyone keeps going on about that no one can actually say. It flat out ignores that guns give you homicide. Of course guns don't make people kill people, but guns make it easy. And people, who commit murders from all over the world, from any country - want easy. To pretend that the availabilities of firearms don't influence homicide just completely ignores any study on the issue. Its a complete breakdown on science and rational thought.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081844]What is this mythical reason that everyone keeps going on about that no one can actually say. It flat out ignores that guns give you homicide. Of course guns don't make people kill people, but guns make it easy. And people, who commit murders from all over the world, from any country - want easy. To pretend that the availabilities of firearms don't influence homicide just completely ignores any study on the issue. Its a complete breakdown on science and rational thought.[/QUOTE]Guns make killing people easy because THAT IS THEIR INTENDED SOLE PURPOSE. Great job detective.

[QUOTE=Aphtonites;40081811]They're not the root of the problem in most mass shootings, but they sure as hell contribute to them.[/QUOTE] No, but what stops unhinged people in other countries from going on mass-shootings? Its not like our mental health systems don't equally suck. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Ybbats;40081861]Guns make killing people easy because THAT IS THEIR INTENDED SOLE PURPOSE. Great job detective.[/QUOTE] Then why do people pretend that they're not a factor?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081736]My favourite is flat out denying that guns have anything to do with it. Its like denying tectonic plates in geology. It even sounds stupid saying it out loud. "Guns have nothing to do with shootings".[/QUOTE] Guns have something to do with them. But the question is, is controlling them the best solution to the problem? Responsible gun owners outnumber by an astronomical proportion these shooters, so the most reasonable course of action is one that targets the people shooting instead of the whole group all-together. Even if we're not sure what exactly that is yet.

Are guns [I]the[/I] problem? No. Are they [I]part of[/I] the problem? Absolutely, I mean if they weren't part of the problem then they wouldn't be getting used. Guns are tools. When not being utilized, they're absolutely harmless. Yes, they make it easier and more efficient to kill someone but they were not designed for the purpose of shooting up schools. Guns are tools being repurposed for school shootings, they're not being made for them. Lanza was a nut, thats undeniable, but the guns he used [I]weren't his guns.[/I] They belonged to his mother. He took them, stole them. The person at fault for Lanza getting his mitts on guns is his [I]mother.[/I] To prevent those guns from being used for that, his mother should have secured them better. To prevent Lanza from snapping, we should have had better mental health facilities. To keep the idea from his head, the Media should have stopped reporting so heavily on shootings in general. There are [I]so many[/I] factors at fault here for Sandy Hook, while guns are indeed a contributor, they are NOT the only problem and restricting guns further is not going to prevent Sandy Hook from happening again.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;40081946]Guns have something to do with them. But the question is, is controlling them the best solution to the problem? Responsible gun owners outnumber by an astronomical proportion these shooters, so the most reasonable course of action is one that targets the people shooting instead of the whole group all-together. Even if we're not sure what exactly that is yet.[/QUOTE] But 'responsible gun owners' are what the whole civilian arms industry is built to service, the one that disappears half a million 'legal' firearms into the black market every year, or gives the NRA such potency. Being a 'responsible gun owner' is like being a 'casual racist' amongst friends, you still perpetuate a problem.

I think Obama has better things to do than worry about his "gun control".

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081972]Being a 'responsible gun owner' is like being a 'casual racist' amongst friends[/QUOTE] And that's where your argument falls apart. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] Seriously, equating gun ownership to racism is a disgusting implication.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081972]But 'responsible gun owners' are what the whole civilian arms industry is built to service, the one that disappears half a million 'legal' firearms into the black market every year, or gives the NRA such potency. Being a 'responsible gun owner' is like being a 'casual racist' amongst friends, you still perpetuate a problem.[/QUOTE] "You! Gun owner! What are you doing?" 'I'm locking my gun safe? With my unloaded guns in them?' "You're the reason this country is so shitty! Shame on you! Sandy Hook is [I]YOUR FAULT![/I]"

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40082024]And that's where your argument falls apart.[/QUOTE] Why? People often say that sort of behaviour hurts no one. I disagree. Same with being 'responsible'. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082034]"You! Gun owner! What are you doing?" 'I'm locking my gun safe? With my unloaded guns in them?' "You're the reason this country is so shitty! Shame on you! Sandy Hook is [I]YOUR FAULT![/I]"[/QUOTE] Said no one ever.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082040]Why? People often say that sort of behaviour hurts no one. I disagree. Same with being 'responsible'.[/QUOTE] You seriously see no problem with equating people who contribute to racism AND people who own guns and have [b]NEVER hurt anyone[/b].

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40082065]You seriously see no problem with equating people who contribute to racism AND people who own guns and have [b]NEVER hurt anyone[/b].[/QUOTE] Both are symptomatic with a wider problem. Stop trying to strawman. [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2012/12/gun-control[/url]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082077]Both are symptomatic with a wider problem. Stop trying to strawman.[/QUOTE] I'm not strawmanning, that is literally what you're saying. Your claims that typical gun owners is contributing to this violence is ridiculous because there's no proof to back up that assertion.

That's the problem with making arguments based on emotion and not facts. It makes you look like a dummy.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082040]Why? People often say that sort of behaviour hurts no one. I disagree. Same with being 'responsible'. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] Said no one ever.[/QUOTE] You literally [I]just said[/I] that "responsible gun owners" are perpetuating the problem, [I]you're saying they are part of the problem. [/I][QUOTE=NoDachi;40082077]Both are symptomatic with a wider problem. Stop trying to strawman. [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/lexington/2012/12/gun-control[/url][/QUOTE] And here you are saying it again!

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082040]Why? People often say that sort of behaviour hurts no one. I disagree. Same with being 'responsible'. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] Said no one ever.[/QUOTE] You basically said owning a gun is a problem in itself, whether you're responsible or not.

People and their guns man, they act like Obama is coming to take their first born child.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082040] Said no one ever.[/QUOTE] You did say this though. Right here [QUOTE=NoDachi;40081972]Being a 'responsible gun owner' is like being a 'casual racist' amongst friends, [B]you still perpetuate a problem.[/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081972]Being a 'responsible gun owner' is like being a 'casual racist' amongst friends, you still perpetuate a problem.[/QUOTE] I'm a responsible gun owner, and right now I want to punch you. Multiple times.

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40082093]Your claims that typical gun owners is contributing to this violence is ridiculous because there's no proof to back up that assertion.[/QUOTE] You make that sound like a radical statement. In a western country like the USA, UK or Germany you can't have gun violence without an arms industry. You can't have an arms industry without people willing to fund one.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082174]I'm a responsible gun owner, and right now I want to punch you. Multiple times.[/QUOTE] This doesn't contribute anything, what are you doing?

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082174]I'm a responsible gun owner, and right now I want to punch you. Multiple times.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I make you feel uncomfortable.

[QUOTE=DeEz;40082184]This doesn't contribute anything, what are you doing?[/QUOTE] At least he doesn't want to shoot him

Why do people need guns? for their freedoms? Idk but more civilized countries survive fine without every single person and their kids and their kids pets having guns. (cue dumb x1000 from gun nuts)

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082175]You make that sound like a radical statement. In a western country like the USA, UK or Germany you can't have gun violence without an arms industry. You can't have an arms industry without people willing to fund one.[/QUOTE] That's like saying legal narcotics for medication are to blame for drug abuse. "They wouldn't make the pills if people didn't demand them!" No, blaming legal owners of firearms for the actions of a crazed few is ridiculous and misplaced. Now if you'd like to talk about how Arms Companies contribute to a culture of white teenage boys who think that the best way to solve their depression is to shoot up a school, then I'm all ears. But blaming legal gun owners, who as I have said before have done nothing wrong, is misplaced blame at best.

[QUOTE=DeEz;40082173]You did say this though. Right here[/QUOTE] Perpetuate problems =/= directly responsible for Sandy Hook.

[QUOTE=Zethereal;40082194]Why do people need guns? for their freedoms? Idk but more civilized countries survive fine without every single person and their kids and their kids pets having guns. (cue dumb x1000 from gun nuts)[/QUOTE] -sport shooting -hunting -home defense -tyranny prevention -collection