Obama, urging gun control, says 'shame on us' if people forget Newtown victims - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DeEz;40082184]This doesn't contribute anything, what are you doing?[/QUOTE] Pointing out that he's insulting millions of people that despite owning guns and shooting on a regular basis, have never hurt anyone and have no desire to do so. Yes, I mad.

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40082201]No, blaming legal owners of firearms for the actions of a crazed few is ridiculous and misplaced.[/QUOTE] I can hear that NRA rhetoric again.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082202]Perpetuate problems =/= directly responsible for Sandy Hook.[/QUOTE] "if people like you didn't have guns, sandy hook wouldn't have happened" You are blaming responsible gun owners for shootings.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082217]I can hear that NRA rhetoric again.[/QUOTE] Considering that I don't even side with the NRA (You don't have to be pro-gun and siding with them) and apply that argument to more than just firearms (how about violent video games which people like making out as breeding murderers), who's strawmanning now?

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082213]Pointing out that he's insulting millions of people that despite owning guns and shooting on a regular basis, have never hurt anyone and have no desire to do so. Yes, I mad.[/QUOTE] Do you find it insulting to know that gun owners are between 2-10 times more likely to commit suicide than those without? If not, why so?

[QUOTE=Zethereal;40082194]Why do people need guns? for their freedoms? Idk but more civilized countries survive fine without every single person and their kids and their kids pets having guns. (cue dumb x1000 from gun nuts)[/QUOTE] Idk but more civilized countries survive fine while every single person and their kids and their kids pets have guns. Cough cough Switzerland cough. Or most of Europe, really. Aside from Britain, gun laws aren't strict as many believe, yet we get along just fine even if we're allowed to buy babbykilling assult masheen guns with relative ease.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40081844]What is this mythical reason that everyone keeps going on about that no one can actually say. It flat out ignores that guns give you homicide. Of course guns don't make people kill people, but guns make it easy. And people, who commit murders from all over the world, from any country - want easy. To pretend that the availabilities of firearms don't influence homicide just completely ignores any study on the issue. Its a complete breakdown on science and rational thought.[/QUOTE] Two of the biggest root causes for why people commit violent crimes are income disparity and poverty. The United States has quite a few cities that have high poverty and income disparity which heavily contribute to the violent crime rates, especially homicide. The U.S. also doesn't have very strong systems to counteract those two causes. Its really hard to get out of poverty. Also, the welfare system isn't that great and there is no NHS system.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082231]Do you find it insulting to know that gun owners are between 2-10 times more likely to commit suicide than those without? If not, why so?[/QUOTE] I find it disturbing that as the number of pirates goes down, global temperature goes up.

-snip-

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082249]I find it disturbing that as the number of pirates goes down, global temperature goes up.[/QUOTE] So you don't think there is a link? Despite all the research on it? [url]http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0805923#t=article[/url]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082231]Do you find it insulting to know that gun owners are between 2-10 times more likely to commit suicide than those without? If not, why so?[/QUOTE] I find more insulting that you keep spouting "facts" about a culture you barely understand and aren't a part of, putting us on the same level of racists and murderers.

[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40082259]-snip-[/QUOTE] nice inane graphs [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082265]I find more insulting that you keep spouting "facts" about a culture you barely understand and aren't a part of, putting us on the same level of racists and murderers.[/QUOTE] I didn't know making the link between civilian ownership at homicide was so controversial.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082281]nice inane graphs [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] I didn't know making the link between civilian ownership at homicide was so controversial.[/QUOTE] Its not, but calling every gun owner a racist is pretty fucking rude.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082232]Cough cough Switzerland cough.[/QUOTE] Cough the Swiss get pissed off when they get compared to America style ownership cough [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082297]Its not, but calling every gun owner a racist is pretty fucking rude.[/QUOTE] I never called gun owners racists you blithering dolt.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082299]Cough the Swiss get pissed off when they get compared to America style ownership cough [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] I never called gun owners racists you blithering dolt.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=NoDachi;40081972]But 'responsible gun owners' are what the whole civilian arms industry is built to service, the one that disappears half a million 'legal' firearms into the black market every year, or gives the NRA such potency. [B]Being a 'responsible gun owner' is like being a 'casual racist' amongst friends, you still perpetuate a problem.[/B][/QUOTE] Aint that your post? [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] And have we really devolved into name calling?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082281]I didn't know making the link between civilian ownership at homicide was so controversial.[/QUOTE] At this point I'm not sure if you're just trolling, or genuinely believe that outright outlawing civilian gun ownership would make all guns go "poof" and everything will become sunshine and rainbows.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082312]Aint that your post?[/QUOTE] 'Is like'. Making an off joke with a friend is harmless, but its symptomatic of a wider underlying problem. Owning a firearm responsibility is 'harmless', but the need or desire to do so is symptomatic of a wider underlying problem. This really isn't controversial stuff.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082299]Cough the Swiss get pissed off when they get compared to America style ownership cough[/QUOTE] Ah-rumph cough cough [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Buying_guns]getting a gun in switzerland is still p. fucking easy[/url] cough cough I could use some syrup right now.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082326]genuinely believe that outright outlawing civilian gun ownership would make all guns go "poof" and everything will become sunshine and rainbows.[/QUOTE] I know you're angry but could you please stop projecting your anxieties about what I'm trying to say. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082352]Ah-rumph cough cough [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Buying_guns]getting a gun in switzerland is still p. fucking easy[/url] cough cough I could use some syrup right now.[/QUOTE] [url]http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/[/url]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082353]I know you're angry but could you please stop projecting your anxieties about what I'm trying to say.[/QUOTE] So what [I]are[/I] you trying to say then? So far you've said that if civilians didn't own guns then things would be fine, because "responsible gun owners" are like "casual racists" and are perpetuating the problem of gun violence. You've also called gun owners suicidal, or rather more likely to be suicidal.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082353][url]http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/[/url][/QUOTE] So are you saying that the problem lies not in firearms but in people, and that the solution is not removing guns but rather educating people about them, promoting discipline and focusing on behavior issues, mental health and social conditions, essentially proving us right?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082353]I know you're angry but could you please stop projecting your anxieties about what I'm trying to say. [url]http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/[/url][/QUOTE] It's hard not to because what you have said has insulted a bunch of people.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082249]I find it disturbing that as the number of pirates goes down, global temperature goes up.[/QUOTE] Well arnt you cool, hes kinda telling the truth. Zeke is a living example of such because he said he would have killed himself if he had a gun available to him and he feels greatful that he didnt.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;40082398]Well arnt you cool, hes kinda telling the truth. Zeke is a living example of such because he said he would have killed himself if he had a gun available to him and he feels greatful that he didnt.[/QUOTE] I love and respect the fuck out of Zeke, but not only is this anecdotal evidence regarding a [I]single[/I] person, but bringing that whole thing into the discussion is kinda uncalled for.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;40082377]So are you saying that the problem lies not in firearms but in people, and that the solution is not removing guns but rather educating people about them, promoting discipline and focusing on behavior issues, mental health and social conditions, essentially proving us right?[/QUOTE] I think its only a problem time can solve. Eventually democratic accountability will win out. Even if it takes 200 years. But I don't think sticking your head in the sand over the fact that the majority of Americans want to own guns, and 48% of them do so out of fear - is a solution either. I know I regret making my previous analogy, which was clumsy and confusing. But my point still stands. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082421]I love and respect the fuck out of Zeke, but not only is this anecdotal evidence regarding a [I]single[/I] person, but bringing that whole thing into the discussion is kinda uncalled for.[/QUOTE] Evidence that is backed up by any study on the link between access to firearms and suicide.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082423] Evidence that is backed up by any study on the link between access to firearms and suicide.[/QUOTE] So anecdotal evidence is now acceptable when it benefits your argument? Its [I]never[/I] been acceptable before. But while we're at it, my father is a gun owner, so is my mother, my roomate, my uncles... list goes on. As far as I know, none of them have committed suicide and I don't think they've ever been involved in a crime involving gun violence.

[QUOTE=Jagur;40082390]It's hard not to because what you have said has insulted a bunch of people.[/QUOTE] [quote=The Economist]If America is ever to confront its obsession with guns, that time is now.[/quote] Yet this didn't insult a single person? What the heck do you think is meant by 'confronting its obsession with guns'. Its including 'responsible gun owners' as well. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=S31-Syntax;40082461]So anecdotal evidence is now acceptable when it benefits your argument? Its [I]never[/I] been acceptable before. But while we're at it, my father is a gun owner, so is my mother, my roomate, my uncles... list goes on. As far as I know, none of them have committed suicide and I don't think they've ever been involved in a crime involving gun violence.[/QUOTE] But do you disagree or agree with that there [I]is[/I] a link.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082468]Yet this didn't insult a single person?[/QUOTE] Calling a gun-lover a gun-lover is vastly different than saying they're as bad as a racist.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40082468] But do you disagree or agree with that there [I]is[/I] a link.[/QUOTE] I disagree. Does it make suicide [I]easier?[/I] Debatable. But this isn't what I was pointing out, I was pointing out the issue with using anecdotal evidence, which you seemed to accept since it helps you.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;40082501]Calling a gun-lover a gun-lover is vastly different than saying they're as bad as a racist.[/QUOTE] [I]Obsession[/I] carries negative connotation. Love does not. Its implying there is an unhealthy relationship between guns and gun owners.