• Idaho teen shoots burglar during home invasion, gunfight
    370 replies, posted
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309873]40 000 people a year die because they don't have access to healthcare in the US, does that issue also not matter because it's such a small number? It's technically reversed since those people die because of access to guns, and the others die because of lack of access to healthcare, but the point stands.[/QUOTE] What the fuck kind of point is this? The point does not stand. No shit everyone should have access to healthcare. But the deaths caused by a lack of healthcare is not at all analogous to guns. You are advocating taking away property from anywhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of the population because a statistically significant amount of people are not killed by their guns. [QUOTE=EcksDee;51309873]Yeah fatality rates are 'better' with guns, I agree. Even taking that into account though, more people die from gun violence than 'knife violence' a year.[/QUOTE] The point is if you take guns away then people will resort to other, more fatal weapons...
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309873]Fair enough, bad choice of words, I don't want to blame the victim but I will anyway. Following a desperate burglar into a closed room is not exactly the way to de-escalate a situation. Though I guess that won't really come to mind when pumped full of adrenaline.[/QUOTE] He was on his fucking way out, he saw 2 residents peering at him and he decided to return. What the fuck would you expect? That he was going to surrender and give them a sob story?
It's THEIR house, they can go wherever they damn well please in their own home. If someone shoots at them in THEIR HOUSE then they have the right to SHOOT BACK at the person SHOOTING AT THEM.
"Oh that poor armed burglar, being tragically shot while committing armed robbery and attempted murder." I wonder what it's like being this out of touch with reality.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309851]oh don't get me wrong if someone was trying to harm me or my family I'd fuck them up big time, but if they're here to steal some shit and are trying to run away (like the guy in the article was) then I see no reason to escalate. [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] i'm back cause i heard you being weak sorry [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] china has 1200x the population and it has less gun deaths, less incarceration and better educational standards than the US (forgetting for the moment that their system is incredibly extreme when it comes to schooling)[/QUOTE] Okay 1: China is a fucking dictatorship. 2: [QUOTE]but if they're here to steal some shit and are trying to run away (like the guy in the article was) then I see no reason to escalate.[/QUOTE] Do you think criminals act like comic book villians where they tie you up and calmly explain their evil plans? No as you can see little nigga, you wont have ANY idea what they are up to until AFTER its too late. Also the guy fucking shot at them. Are you fucking kidding me. Please if you live with other people let them know that if there was a home invasion that you would be no fucking help at all and would just quietly watch them get robbed, killed, and rape. Just so they can know not to depend on you and hopefully quickly think of a way to handle the situation. I'm not joking.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51309900]The way Americans treat home-intruders as literal sub-humans who deserve every kind of punishment you can think of times 10 is appalling to say the least, and is very worrisome to hear that level of commonly accepted mass paranoia and comic-like blood lust[/QUOTE] JFC don't you think that's just a little xenophobic there bud?
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51309860]So, fake tough guy, he/she has a gun and he/she already shot and wounded you, how can you fuck them up big time if you didn't want to defend yourself? Are you going to throw some pans at him/her and expect everything to be alright?[/QUOTE] well if he/she has already shot me then the situation has already escalated and everyone is fucked either way. If I had a gun at that point I'd shoot, though my gun would probably be somewhere else in the house anyway. The point is that if that kind of situation can be avoided in the first place, then that should be the way to go. Take this exact news story for example. Family saw a burglar, they don't know if he is armed, trying to escape out a window. For whatever reason the guy is unable to escape, so [I]they follow him[/I] through the house, and [I]decide to enter a room where the burglar was cornered, not knowing what weapons he had[/I] instead of waiting for the cops. So they get shot at 5-6 times, any one bullet of which could have killed either one of them, and get a lucky shot in and incap the guy. In your hypothetical I'm already shot and bleeding, in which case having a gun is sorta kinda past the point isn't it.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309934]well if he/she has already shot me then the situation has already escalated and everyone is fucked either way. If I had a gun at that point I'd shoot, though my gun would probably be somewhere else in the house anyway. The point is that if that kind of situation can be avoided in the first place, then that should be the way to go. Take this exact news story for example. Family saw a burglar, they don't know if he is armed, trying to escape out a window. For whatever reason the guy is unable to escape, so [I]they follow him[/I] through the house, and [I]decide to enter a room where the burglar was cornered, not knowing what weapons he had[/I] instead of waiting for the cops. So they get shot at 5-6 times, any one bullet of which could have killed either one of them, and get a lucky shot in and incap the guy. In your hypothetical I'm already shot and bleeding, in which case having a gun is sorta kinda past the point isn't it.[/QUOTE] So if no guns were present, should they have not tried to double-team him and detain him so that a) their shit doesn't get stolen, and b) the police can arrest him? Like I feel like your mentality is "oh there's a robber in my house, checkmate they win I'd better wait for the police to come 10 minutes after he's already gone."
[QUOTE=Jouska;51309920]Okay 1: China is a fucking dictatorship. 2: Do you think criminals act like comic book villians where they tie you up and calmly explain their evil plans? No as you can see little nigga, you wont have ANY idea what they are up to until AFTER its too late. Also the guy fucking shot at them. Are you fucking kidding me. Please if you live with other people let them know that if there was a home invasion that you would be no fucking help at all and would just quietly watch them get robbed, killed, and rape. Just so they can know not to depend on you and hopefully quickly think of a way to handle the situation. I'm not joking.[/QUOTE] Criminals (especially thieves and burglars) are more often than not people at the end of their rope looking for a way to feed their family, NOT looking to start a home invasion with a murder. [QUOTE]Also the guy fucking shot at them. Are you fucking kidding me. [/QUOTE] After they followed and cornered him, I'll bet a paycheck he would otherwise just have escaped and been caught later by the police. [QUOTE] Please if you live with other people let them know that if there was a home invasion that you would be no fucking help at all and would just quietly watch them get robbed, killed, and rape.[/QUOTE] no lol If there's a home invasion and a guy has his gun on me, I'd be like "yo whatever it's just stuff, I'm insured anyway so take it lol" If he tries to rape/hurt my family, then kill or be killed I'm gonna fuck him up big time. [B]Like this is another problem with gun-nuts.[/B] They think that everyone who doesn't like having more guns than people in their country is a pansy babby who can't do anything ever anywhere. I'm more than capable of (and have) hurt people badly for trying to hurt me or someone I cared about.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309958]Criminals (especially thieves and burglars) are more often than not people at the end of their rope looking for a way to feed their family, NOT looking to start a home invasion with a murder. After they followed and cornered him, I'll bet a paycheck he would otherwise just have escaped and been caught later by the police. no lol If there's a home invasion and a guy has his gun on me, I'd be like "yo whatever it's just stuff, I'm insured anyway so take it lol" If he tries to rape/hurt my family, then [B]kill or be killed I'm gonna fuck him up big time.[/B] [B]Like this is another problem with gun-nuts. They think that everyone who doesn't like having more guns than people in their country is a pansy babby who can't do anything ever anywhere. I'm more than capable of (and have) hurt people badly for trying to hurt me or someone I cared about.[/B][/QUOTE] You are living in a fantasy. I'm done.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309958]I'm more than capable of (and have) hurt people badly for trying to hurt me or someone I cared about.[/QUOTE] No you didn't, or else you wouldn't have said this in the first place: [quote]for the one family a month that shoots and permanently disfigures an intruder who could be rehabilitated and become a functional member of society.[/quote] Clandestine fighting can leave someone paralyzed, but he probably kicked my brother's nuts so I don't give a shit if he's a vegetable now.
[QUOTE=hippowombat;51309962]You are living in a fantasy. I'm done.[/QUOTE] Ok fine, I'm gonna [B]attempt[/B] to fuck him up big time. Jeez I'd have thought that to be obvious from the context but hey If I had a gun or not there's not much I can do if someone is actually determined to hurt me. Notice how the vast majority of these stories seem to be thieves and burglars, not assassins or serial killers. If the guy in this article had wanted to start off with a murder, he'd have started shooting earlier.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309934] In your hypothetical I'm already shot and bleeding, in which case having a gun is sorta kinda past the point isn't it.[/QUOTE] I have fallen out of my wheelchair, I guess I must just lay here like a dead fish for the rest of my life, I have already fallen so having a wheelchair is sorta kinda past the point isn't it. The guy who got shot ended up shooting the shooter and ending the shootout. This shit isnt a movie and a gun wound isnt insta death. If that guy didnt continue shooting after being shot do you think that robber is just going to walk up to you and say "oh its cool now bro" no, he is going to fucking finish you off. Not even execution style he just going to keep firing that weapon which increases the chances of you getting shot again.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51309973]No you didn't, or else you wouldn't have said this in the first place:[/QUOTE] How are those mutually exclusive. In the article, the family went and followed the intruder, entering into the room he was in, not knowing how dangerous he is and almost getting shot in the face. If someone is trying to steal shit from me and they have a gun or knife, then yeah I'll let them take it. If they then decide to have some fun and attack my gf, then I'm not standing idly by, obviously. The point is that the family escalated the situation by following the burglar with a shotgun, when they could have waited for the authorities.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;51309604]Yeah but this is loaded as fuck. There's also some stupidly large number of people, in the tens of millions, who are "positively affected" by guns in the "I went to a shooting range" sense. You can't just dismiss that because you deem their hobby unimportant.[/QUOTE] That's irrelevant though. My GF shoots for sport and is able to enjoy her hobby as long as she follows the regulations put in place by the French government. You don't need complete unhindered US-style access to firearms to practice at a shooting range as long as you're ready to respect the rules, are mentally healthy and get a license. So I don't think any hypothetical gun ban on the US would result in the impossibility of going to the shooting range.
[QUOTE=Jouska;51309982]I have fallen out of my wheelchair, I guess I must just lay here like a dead fish for the rest of my life, I have already fallen so having a wheelchair is sorta kinda past the point isn't it. The guy who got shot ended up shooting the shooter and ending the shootout. This shit isnt a movie and a gun wound isnt insta death. If that guy didnt continue shooting after being shot do you think that robber is just going to walk up to you and say "oh its cool now bro" no, he is going to fucking finish you off. Not even execution style he just going to keep firing that weapon which increases the chances of you getting shot again.[/QUOTE] ok so my gun in the hypothetical is somewhere in my drawers or at an accessible place I am already shot and bleeding and the guy is going to kill me guess what, i'm dead the only room that we have to play with there is everything leading up to that situation if we start the hypothetical with the presupposition that the guy is already there to kill me then what even is the point? I'm probably gonna be dead whether or not I have a gun. The question is specifically that situation, where you happen upon a guy stealing shit from your house, do you follow them with a shotgun or do you call the cops and stay the fuck away The guy isnt gonna be there IN ORDER TO kill you, he needs money and man he gonna take anything he can pawn off later
he might also rape you
[QUOTE=_Axel;51309367]Forensics can tell if you killed the guy under suspicious circumstances though.[/QUOTE] Depends on the state. The US is uniquely among nations in that our states/provinces have very different laws when it comes to home and self defense. If this happened in Texas, for instance, it'd never go to court; Texas' home defense laws pretty much cover the shooting of someone who is on your property if they pose a threat and have been told to leave, so long as you don't shoot them as they're trying to leave, ("in the back") and get medical/police help as quickly as possible.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309958]Criminals (especially thieves and burglars) are more often than not people at the end of their rope looking for a way to feed their family, NOT looking to start a home invasion with a murder. After they followed and cornered him, I'll bet a paycheck he would otherwise just have escaped and been caught later by the police. no lol If there's a home invasion and a guy has his gun on me, I'd be like "yo whatever it's just stuff, I'm insured anyway so take it lol" If he tries to rape/hurt my family, then kill or be killed I'm gonna fuck him up big time. [B]Like this is another problem with gun-nuts.[/B] They think that everyone who doesn't like having more guns than people in their country is a pansy babby who can't do anything ever anywhere. I'm more than capable of (and have) hurt people badly for trying to hurt me or someone I cared about.[/QUOTE] "Im going to fuck him up big time" Lmao how you just surrender yourself and he has a gun to your head. You going to john wick yourself out of there? Your best chance is,if armed, is to shoot first or point your weapon and demand HIS surrender. Also I dont think people who dont own guns/dislikes guns are pussies just people who happens to think like you. People who would let their family member's lives be place in the hands of some random house invader. Also give me your paycheck because I had a friend years ago who was brutally raped and beaten nearly a inch in her home that did exactly what the house invader told her to do.
[QUOTE=hippowombat;51309948]So if no guns were present, should they have not tried to double-team him and detain him so that a) their shit doesn't get stolen, and b) the police can arrest him? Like I feel like your mentality is "oh there's a robber in my house, checkmate they win I'd better wait for the police to come 10 minutes after he's already gone."[/QUOTE] If they KNEW that no guns were present, hey go for it If they don't know if he has a gun or a weapon, then fuck that shit I'd rather risk getting a broken bone from a fight than risk getting shot at by a weapon a guy might have Again, better to let them go than risk me or my family getting hurt by escalating the situation. Call the cops and let them work on that shit.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51310007]ok so my gun in the hypothetical is somewhere in my drawers or at an accessible place I am already shot and bleeding and the guy is going to kill me guess what, i'm dead the only room that we have to play with there is everything leading up to that situation if we start the hypothetical with the presupposition that the guy is already there to kill me then what even is the point? I'm probably gonna be dead whether or not I have a gun. The question is specifically that situation, where you happen upon a guy stealing shit from your house, do you follow them with a shotgun or do you call the cops and stay the fuck away The guy isnt gonna be there IN ORDER TO kill you, he needs money and man he gonna take anything he can pawn off later[/QUOTE] Well if you shoot the guy first then you wouldnt be on the floor bleeding to death.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51309996]That's irrelevant though. My GF shoots for sport and is able to enjoy her hobby as long as she follows the regulations put in place by the French government. You don't need complete unhindered US-style access to firearms to practice at a shooting range as long as you're ready to respect the rules, are mentally healthy and get a license. So I don't think any hypothetical gun ban on the US would result in the impossibility of going to the shooting range.[/QUOTE] But why put in a gun ban in the first place? Why stop people from going to the shooting range with the guns they enjoy?
[QUOTE=hippowombat;51309932]JFC don't you think that's just a little xenophobic there bud?[/QUOTE] Fucking americans trying to prevent/lower the chances of their familes getting brutally murdered and raped. Fuck psychos the lot of us.
[QUOTE=Jouska;51309807]How sheltered are you? These threads always have that one delusional idealist. No little boy, if somebody invades me house and I have the chance to shoot the guy I am taking the shot. I known people who were raped or killed. I am not going to let some criminal rape or harm my family and I am defineitly not going care about his chances of "rehabilitation" when this guy breaks into my home and at that point I wouldnt know if he wants to rob me or kill me or whatever, I am not going to take chances. I mean you do know just because its a break-in doesnt mean he is just going to rob you. I read multiple stories about rapists literally breaking in, raping some poor girl and leaving without even attempting to steal anything. What are you going to do if that was your daughter or SO? Just sit there like an fucking pussy? Give the invader cookies? Sit there with your fucking phone in your hands talking to the 9/11 operator while you wait for police response that could take anywhere from 15-30 mins to arrive? Let that girl suffer life changing PTSD, sucidial thoughts, and many horrible effects? Like seriously dude man the fuck up. If somebody breaking into your house, they are a threat. Also if you actually read the article you would notice this:[/QUOTE] Yeah, someone should just man up and risk dying. Great idea. You have to understand that lots of people aren't going to take that risk. [QUOTE]The dude was fucking shooting at them. How the fuck can you just suggest they just call 911 while they are actively gettinh shot at?[/QUOTE] When they entered the room, that's why, he shot at them. If they left and waited for the police, that wouldn't have happened. You're just putting yourself at unnecessary risk. Play a hero, if you want, but if you end up hurt, that's your own fault.
[QUOTE=Jouska;51310025] Lmao how you just surrender yourself and he has a gun to your head. You going to john wick yourself out of there? Your best chance is,if armed, is to shoot first or point your weapon and demand HIS surrender. [/QUOTE] if he has a gun to my head and wants to steal shit then fucking take it, its not a big deal if he has a gun to my head and starts trying to fuck with people I care about, I'm getting involved whether I die or not the point is that its not worth starting off by killing the fucker, other than to appease some fantasy of every burglar being a murdering rapist [QUOTE]Also I dont think people who dont own guns/dislikes guns are pussies just people who happens to think like you. People who would let their family member's lives be place in the hands of some random house invader.[/QUOTE] Like I said, if their shit got given to a stranger, then go for it if their lives are in a strangers hands, then that shit aint cool and im getting involved whether i die or not, like i said [QUOTE]Also give me your paycheck because I had a friend years ago who was brutally raped and beaten nearly a inch in her home that did exactly what the house invader told her to do.[/QUOTE] well that sucks, but i did say 'this case' because the guy was (according to the family's testimony) obviously trying to escape, not murder or rape [QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51309815]Ah, the typical cop out when one has ran out of strawmen.[/QUOTE] yeah sorry this time i am actually going to bed [img]http://i.imgur.com/mpJE1T9.png[/img]
[QUOTE=PaChIrA;51310037]But why put in a gun ban in the first place? Why stop people from going to the shooting range with the guns they enjoy?[/QUOTE] The point of my post was to show that any form of gun ban wouldn't prevent people from going to the shooting range with the guns they enjoy since any ban wouldn't be stricter than European regulations and you can do just that there in the first place. I don't know if a ban would result in any benefit in terms of homicide rates and such in the US, IMO it's too late to go that far since the whole country is already saturated with firearms.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51309955] 10,000 dead people don't matter in a population of But ay lmao, Ecksdee is the one out of touch with reality, right? The amount of shit argumentation in this thread is embarrassing.[/QUOTE] Well if you got a gun in your hands and you are getting shot at in close range, in your house, where your family members are in, by a guy that is clearly trying to kill you and your idea of survival is "better put this gun away and call 911 while this dude is exploding lead into me" then yes you are out of touch of reality. Very out of touch. Completely in another world more like it.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51310066]the point is that its not worth starting off by killing the fucker, other than to appease some fantasy of every burglar being a murdering rapist[/QUOTE] I even said "or get him to surrender" but yeah I would totally kill some dude breaking in my house if my love ones are home. Thats not sarcasm either because I would not risk them getting harmed because i was too dumb to prevent the robber from getting the upperhand. I swear you guys must have lived in a bubble-wrapped room all your lives to think this way
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;51309386]The good news is that burglar is likely going to be shitting and pissing into a bag the rest of his life, considering the shotgun was loaded with either birdshot or 00 buck, his intestines are likely ripped to shreds. Taking into account he shot first, he's going to get attempted murder charges, and good fucking luck suing the family you tried to kill after you broke into their home. Since the son only shot once, and didn't fire again once the intruder had been neutralized and was no longer a threat, it's safe to say no civil court would ever rule in favor of the home invader if he or his family decided to file a lawsuit against them.[/QUOTE] birdshot doesnt do as much damage as you think
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51310145]Stop trying to paint the other side as "pansies" who turn the other cheek when confronted with direct violence. You're horribly off point. This isn't even about that.[/QUOTE] Stop trying to paint the other other side as bloodthirsty animals who sit and wait with their gun cocked hoping tonight will be the night a burglar breaks in so they can viciously murder them. You're horribly off point. This isn't even about that.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.