Idaho teen shoots burglar during home invasion, gunfight
370 replies, posted
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310416]He probably has a gun for the same reason the homeowner has one, like I said in my earlier post.[/QUOTE]
Then maybe he shouldnt be breaking into houses that he believes the home owners will be armed.
You guys are missing the point. If he invades that home while armed thinking the home owners are armed then that means he WILL/VERY LIKELY attempt to kill those people regardless if they was armed.
WHICH HE ACTUALLY ATTEMPTS TO DO THE MOMENT HE ENCOUNTERS THEM.
I cant believe people are STILL defending this guy.
[editline]4th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Orkel;51310482]a gun debate? in my "guy tries to murder but gets shot in self defence" thread in SH? i would never have guessed[/QUOTE]
I wouldnt even call it a debate, just some sheltered guys who keeps their heads too far up their ass to listen to logic and reason.
[QUOTE=SirKillsAlot;51310479]Because I will defend my loved ones and I will defend everything that I've worked for in my life [B]equally[/B]. I will tell you what, if you personally come break into my house you can have everything you want. Fuck my gf even. I'll be chilling by the telephone.[/QUOTE]
So you'll risk your life and your loved ones' to save your game console and flatscreen TV?
How the fuck is any of your materialistic possession "equal" to the life of anyone in your family? Why is your inanimate stuff even relevant in a scenario where burglars are apparently very dangerous?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51310481]We dont lock our door here. Living in a safe country.[/QUOTE]
One day you may come to regret that. Unfortunately for you, you may not be able to prevent it like these lads have. I'll send some prayers your way in hopes you don't ever have to deal with that.
A few years ago here in Connecticut there was a horrific break in. These two burglars stalked a mother and her daughters the day prior, and decided they were a good target. The next day, they broke in to this woman's home First they knocked out her husband, who was sleeping on the porch. The pair tied him (he was brought to the basement), the mother, and their daughters up in their rooms.
Then the burglars changed their plans. They were not satisfied with what they had stolen. So they decided to take the wife to the bank, have her withdraw a lot of money. The wife told the teller what was going on, who then called 911.
The police took their time setting up a perimeter, and not letting the assailants know they were there. All the while the two burglars were [I]raping and killing the wife and two daughters[/I]. They then burned the house, after dousing the still living daughters and dead wife in gasoline. The father had managed to escape.
Cases like this are why I will never assume the best of a home intruder. They changed their minds and destroyed a family in the process. A gun would not have helped in that case at all however, make no mistake. The situation was not right, as for example the father was asleep outside. The point I am making however, is to never take chances with home intruders. Ever.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;51310500]One day you may come to regret that. Unfortunately for you, you may not be able to prevent it like these lads have. I'll send some prayers your way in hopes you don't ever have to deal with that.[/QUOTE]
The fuck is the point of that kind of post?
Not all the world is like the US, I understand the need for personal protection in your country but that doesn't apply everywhere.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310498]So you'll risk your life and your loved ones' to save your game console and flatscreen TV?
How the fuck is any of your materialistic possession "equal" to the life of anyone in your family? Why is your inanimate stuff even relevant in a scenario where burglars are apparently very dangerous?[/QUOTE]
Last I checked, defending my home and everybody else in it from a home invader [B]is[/B] saving my loved ones. A side effect is that my television is still right where it should be.
But again, tell me how me having a firearm in my house for defense against a HOME INVADER breaking into my house to do WHO KNOWS WHAT is being materialistic. Don't forget to throw in the fact that I as well as all of my friends and coworkers who also have a firearm for self defense are gun toting hotshot retards.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310498]So you'll risk your life and your loved ones' to save your game console and flatscreen TV?
How the fuck is any of your materialistic possession "equal" to the life of anyone in your family? Why is your inanimate stuff even relevant in a scenario where burglars are apparently very dangerous?[/QUOTE]
I bought myself a PS4 last year, along with Bloodborne and Dying Light. Total retail is almost $400. For me, after bills and such, that's a couple, if not several, months of hard, gruelling work. Are they just material possessions? Yeah. But they have a lot of meaning and value to me, as someone that grew up poor. So while i don't value them above a human life, you can be damn sure i'm going to prevent my hard work from being taken from me.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51310475]EcksDee demonstrates, yeah.
They [I]are allowed[/I], but it definitely is not the smartest way to approach that. This is all we are saying, we arent saying homeowners should be held liable or anything. Just they were dumb, and it isnt just them, some Americans might be behaving dumbly with their guns.
At least this is my opinion. Have your gun, protect your life [I]when under a threat[/I], it is your right. I dont have a problem with YOU, but there are a lot of dumb Americans doing dumb shit with guns and that and the whole culture around it is concerning.[/QUOTE]
This is why there is so much toxicity, because anti-gun peeps always exclaim how dumb americans are with their dumb guns and stuff. And yes there is dumb people with guns, but you shouldn't go around saying stuff like that because it gets people angry and leads to heated arguments such as this.
I disagree with you saying they handled this situation in a dumb way, it was dangerous for sure and who knows what would have happened if they stayed outside.
[QUOTE=bdd458;51310508]A few years ago here in Connecticut there was a horrific break in. These two burglars stalked a mother and her daughters the day prior, and decided they were a good target. The next day, they broke in to this woman's home First they knocked out her husband, who was sleeping on the porch. The pair tied him (he was brought to the basement), the mother, and their daughters up in their rooms.
Then the burglars changed their plans. They were not satisfied with what they had stolen. So they decided to take the wife to the bank, have her withdraw a lot of money. The wife told the teller what was going on, who then called 911.
The police took their time setting up a perimeter, and not letting the assailants know they were there. All the while the two burglars were [I]raping and killing the wife and two daughters[/I]. They then burned the house, after dousing the still living daughters and dead wife in gasoline. The father had managed to escape.
Cases like this are why I will never assume the best of a home intruder. They changed their minds and destroyed a family in the process. A gun would not have helped in that case at all however, make no mistake. The situation was not right, as for example the father was asleep outside. The point I am making however, is to never take chances with home intruders. Ever.[/QUOTE]
At least the robbers weren't shot at by the home owners. Good news for some people here.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51310452]All right. If it is a criminal you are confronting you cant make any mistakes and any way you approach it is the best, since you are the victim and you arent accountable for anything, anyone who criticizes you is wrong and is only thinking that way because of a superiority complex. Because someone shot at you, it means you have approached the situatuion the best way possible, and saying there could be no gunfight at all is victim blaming.
Me and my superiority complex are going to sleep now, have a good night (afternoon? morning?) fellas.[/QUOTE]
Why do everytime somebody royally loses an argument they get salty and states that they are finishing posting in this thread and that are going to bed? This happened like twice in this thread lol. Both times the same anti-gun nut.
Theres no harm in admitting you was wrong.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310513]The fuck is the point of that kind of post?
Not all the world is like the US, I understand the need for personal protection in your country but that doesn't apply everywhere.[/QUOTE]
Which is exactly why none of your arguments hold traction. The world isn't like the US. Every country handles things differently and finds different things acceptable. Coming into a thread like this spouting "americans are dumb and guns are dumb" isn't getting you anywhere, because in America this is a perfectly reasonable response to a dangerous situation.
Fleeing your own home to be ransacked while you call the police may be fine where you're from, but it isn't here. Save your arguments for a crowd that cares, we're operating well within the limits of our laws.
[QUOTE=bdd458;51310508]A few years ago here in Connecticut there was a horrific break in. These two burglars stalked a mother and her daughters the day prior, and decided they were a good target. The next day, they broke in to this woman's home First they knocked out her husband, who was sleeping on the porch. The pair tied him (he was brought to the basement), the mother, and their daughters up in their rooms.
Then the burglars changed their plans. They were not satisfied with what they had stolen. So they decided to take the wife to the bank, have her withdraw a lot of money. The wife told the teller what was going on, who then called 911.
The police took their time setting up a perimeter, and not letting the assailants know they were there. All the while the two burglars were [I]raping and killing the wife and two daughters[/I]. They then burned the house, after dousing the still living daughters and dead wife in gasoline. The father had managed to escape.
Cases like this are why I will never assume the best of a home intruder. They changed their minds and destroyed a family in the process. A gun would not have helped in that case at all however, make no mistake. The situation was not right, as for example the father was asleep outside. The point I am making however, is to never take chances with home intruders. Ever.[/QUOTE]
It's not wise to assume the best intentions of criminals, neither is assuming the worst. It might end up in unnecessary bloodshed. If everyone, criminal and homeowner arms themself, assuming the worst of the other, that's not likely ending in a good way.
Like ovb said - I'll make sure my family and I are adequately prepared for the worst. Whether any triggers get pulled or not is the invader's prerogative.
[QUOTE=SirKillsAlot;51310516]Last I checked, defending my home and everybody else in it from a home invader [B]is[/B] saving my loved ones. A side effect is that my television is still right where it should be.[/QUOTE]
You can defend yourself by arming yourself and staying in a well-defended room instead of actively seeking to face the threat head-on. It also has the added benefit of making it possible not to encounter the robber at all since he'll likely leave once he got the crap he came for.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;51310518]I bought myself a PS4 last year, along with Bloodborne and Dying Light. Total retail is almost $400. For me, after bills and such, that's a couple, if not several, months of hard, gruelling work. Are they just material possessions? Yeah. But they have a lot of meaning and value to me, as someone that grew up poor. So while i don't value them above a human life, you can be damn sure i'm going to prevent my hard work from being taken from me.[/QUOTE]
If you don't value them above a human life then why are you ready to risk yours to save them? Are they really worth dying for?
If I were in a situation where an armed and potentially lethal robber was in my house, my first priority would be to keep everybody in my family alive, material possessions don't even come into account if saving them so much as slightly decreases our chances of survival.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310547]It's not wise to assume the best intentions of criminals, neither is assuming the worst. It might end up in unnecessary bloodshed. If everyone, criminal and homeowner arms themself, assuming the worst of the other, that's not likely ending in a good way.[/QUOTE]
You know what prevents unnecessary bloodshed?
Not breaking into fucking houses.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51309934]
The point is that if that kind of situation can be avoided in the first place, then that should be the way to go. Take this exact news story for example. Family saw a burglar, they don't know if he is armed, trying to escape out a window. For whatever reason, the guy is unable to escape, so [I]they follow him[/I] through the house, and [I]decide to enter a room where the burglar was cornered, not knowing what weapons he had[/I] instead of waiting for the cops.
[/QUOTE]
This post is from a few pages back, but I can't help but marvel at this particular point it makes here.
The way this dude italicizes "they follow him" like it's some incomprehensible, enigmatic move, or "decide to enter a room where the burglar was cornered" as if that was some critical mistake. It all baffles me. Can you imagine having your home broken into, and doing literally nothing? You're not allowed to follow or engage the burglar, you're not allowed to corner or trap the burglar. Basically, call the cops and hope they get to you in time. If they don't? Well, hope whatever he's stealing isn't too important, or better yet, hope he isn't coming to do direct harm to you.
Like, why is a homeowner defending his home so unreasonable to you? Moreso, why can't you seem to grasp [I]why[/I] a homeowner might trail an intruder in their own home, trying to steal their shit? God, why would a [I]father[/I] want to make sure that this burglar is going to leave his [I]family home.[/I]
I get that the gun debate is a pretty contentious topic in SH, but can people who want to ban or destroy all guns or whatever, stop coming into threads where people defend their homes with guns, and shitpost about how the homeowners were terrible, awful, idiot people who should have sat there and done nothing?
I wonder if these people would go into news stories were people are murdered in their own homes and go "fuck, good thing they didn't have a gun. everyone move along, everythings fine here."
[QUOTE=RB33;51310547]It's not wise to assume the best intentions of criminals, neither is assuming the worst. It might end up in unnecessary bloodshed. If everyone, criminal and homeowner arms themself, assuming the worst of the other, that's not likely ending in a good way.[/QUOTE]
If you're getting attacked then what you're expecting or assuming doesn't matter anymore. as far as you're aware, you either defend yourself or you die.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310547]It's not wise to assume the best intentions of criminals, neither is assuming the worst. It might end up in unnecessary bloodshed. If everyone, criminal and homeowner arms themself, assuming the worst of the other, that's not likely ending in a good way.[/QUOTE]
Yeah sorry if you're breaking in you've already made me assume the worst. I can not trust someone who is breaking into my home, and is not fleeing when they realize I'm there. That's not a gamble I'm willing to make, that they're just some down on their luck idiot.
And don't get me wrong, there is a clear difference between self defense and shooting someone who is fleeing. I don't sit around all day jerking off to how I want to shoot someone. I hope to god [I]I never[/I] have to shoot someone, I hope that there are enough decent people out there where I never have to. But I'm also prepared to take the necessary steps to protect myself, my home, and my family if push comes to shove. Because the world is a shitty place and there are a lot of terrible people out there who are willing to do you harm.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51310410]You were. Wasnt my point at all.[/QUOTE]
Maybe try elaborating instead of trying to get dem sick zingers.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;51310543]Which is exactly why none of your arguments hold traction. The world isn't like the US. Every country handles things differently and finds different things acceptable. Coming into a thread like this spouting "americans are dumb and guns are dumb" isn't getting you anywhere, because in America this is a perfectly reasonable response to a dangerous situation.
Fleeing your own home to be ransacked while you call the police may be fine where you're from, but it isn't here. Save your arguments for a crowd that cares, we're operating well within the limits of our laws.[/QUOTE]
If you look closely you'll see I never said anything about guns being dumb, the only thing I'm criticizing here is putting your life and the life of others on the line for the sake of simple possessions.
[QUOTE=Jouska;51310562]You know what prevents unnecessary bloodshed?
Not breaking into fucking houses.[/QUOTE]
Not spreading paranoid thoughts about intruders, always assuming the worst and everyone arming themselves are also things that help. They certainly help my country, as I hope we will never become like this.
This guy was an idiot. What the fuck do you think is gonna happen if you break into a place that doesn't belong to you? Dumbass got what he deserved. I have no sympathy for this moron.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310561]You can defend yourself by arming yourself and staying in a well-defended room instead of actively seeking to face the threat head-on. It also has the added benefit of making it possible not to encounter the robber at all since he'll likely leave once he got the crap he came for.
If you don't value them above a human life then why are you ready to risk yours to save them? Are they really worth dying for?
If I were in a situation where an armed and potentially lethal robber was in my house, my first priority would be to keep everybody in my family alive, material possessions don't even come into account if saving them so much as slightly decreases our chances of survival.[/QUOTE]
I really don't get why you have such a raging hardon for this point you're trying to make. We get it, you hold no value in your possessions, i'm real happy for you. But i worked hard to be where i am now, i'm not about to let some jackass take me back to square one. Call me material, i frankly don't much care.
I'm well within my rights as an American to defend myself and my things. I'm aware that your country doesn't hold the same laws as mine, and i respect that. I can only hope that you eventually can do the same.
[QUOTE=Blazedol;51310573]If you're getting attacked then what you're expecting or assuming doesn't matter anymore. as far as you're aware, you either defend yourself or you die.[/QUOTE]
But before that you should try to deescalate and get as far away as possible and call the police. Instead of risking the lives of you and your family, going after possibly armed intruders.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310561]You can defend yourself by arming yourself and staying in a well-defended room instead of actively seeking to face the threat head-on. It also has the added benefit of making it possible not to encounter the robber at all since he'll likely leave once he got the crap he came for.
If you don't value them above a human life then why are you ready to risk yours to save them? Are they really worth dying for?
If I were in a situation where an armed and potentially lethal robber was in my house, my first priority would be to keep everybody in my family alive, material possessions don't even come into account if saving them so much as slightly decreases our chances of survival.[/QUOTE]
There's that word again. Likely. What if I he doesn't leave? What if I don't have a decent room to hide in? What if I just want to keep the shit that I bought and paid for, and I am [I]well within[/I] my right to defend myself and my shit if he threatens me for it. Am I going to run down the street shooting at him? Obviously not, but if he sticks around even after me finding him I am not going to assume he is here to chat.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310593]If you look closely you'll see I never said anything about guns being dumb, the only thing I'm criticizing here is putting your life and the life of others on the line for the sake of simple possessions.[/QUOTE]
You're also making the assumption that they're just 'simple' possessions. I have things here that have been in my family for decades. Some of them have had it until their death bed until it's gotten passed down to me. Nobody is going to take that from me.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51310570]This post is from a few pages back, but I can't help but marvel at this particular point it makes here.
The way this dude italicizes "they follow him" like it's some incomprehensible, enigmatic move, or "decide to enter a room where the burglar was cornered" as if that was some critical mistake. It all baffles me. Can you imagine having your home broken into, and doing literally nothing? You're not allowed to follow or engage the burglar, you're not allowed to corner or trap the burglar. Basically, call the cops and hope they get to you in time. If they don't? Well, hope whatever he's stealing isn't too important, or better yet, hope he isn't coming to do direct harm to you.
Like, why is a homeowner defending his home so unreasonable to you? Moreso, why can't you seem to grasp [I]why[/I] a homeowner might trail an intruder in their own home, trying to steal their shit? God, why would a [I]father[/I] want to make sure that this burglar is going to leave his [I]family home.[/I]
I get that the gun debate is a pretty contentious topic in SH, but can people who want to ban or destroy all guns or whatever, stop coming into threads where people defend their homes with guns, and shitpost about how the homeowners were terrible, awful, idiot people who should have sat there and done nothing?
I wonder if these people would go into news stories were people are murdered in their own homes and go "fuck, good thing they didn't have a gun. everyone move along, everythings fine here."[/QUOTE]
I don't know, the mere fact they almost got shot six times by the burglar is reason enough not to go inside for me. I'd rather get robbed than lie dead on my own house's floor.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310616]But before that you should try to deescalate and get as far away as possible and call the police. Instead of risking the lives of you and your family, going after possibly armed intruders.[/QUOTE]
nobody's saying ra ra kill em all
what we're saying is we aren't wont to trust a guy who's broken into our homes not to do something terrible since he's already done something bad
most of us have guns for hobby reasons but they happen to double as great defense tools, this isn't about paranoia or anything, it's just like - yeah i've got this and i'm prepared to use it in the unlikely event that i should have to
i guarantee if someone broke into my house and had a gun himself and didn't immediately drop it i'd be blasting away
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51310627]nobody's saying ra ra kill em all
what we're saying is we aren't wont to trust a guy who's broken into our homes not to do something terrible since he's already done something bad
most of us have guns for hobby reasons but they happen to double as great defense tools, this isn't about paranoia or anything, it's just like - yeah i've got this and i'm prepared to use it in the unlikely event that i should have to
i guarantee if someone broke into my house and had a gun himself and didn't immediately drop it i'd be blasting away[/QUOTE]
Whatever terrible thing he might do to your property is not worth risking your life for.
my family???????[I]???????[/I]
there is more in a house than property
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