• Idaho teen shoots burglar during home invasion, gunfight
    370 replies, posted
Imagine not taking action against a burglar because theres a chance that he might ignore you and just run off with your stuff. If I have a gun and someone breaks into my house I sure as fuck am going to try and stop them. I don't know what the hell they're gonna do and if I had kids in the house or other people who can't defend themselves then I'm responsible for them. If you're camping with your family and a fucking bear goes into your tent searching for food then I sure as fuck am going to shoot it, even though theres a chance it won't attack me. Leaving the lives of yourself and those living with you to chance is both stupid and horribly irresponsible. As for the "hurr dumb American hicks" argument. Most gun crime is committed through illegal and stolen firearms. To my knowledge legal gun owners don't just go out and kill people or rob them. Another point to address is the asinine belief that there's no reason to own a firearm. You don't need a reason to own a firearm, they're cool as fuck. Especially historical ones. So long as we have a system in place that keeps guns in the hands of responsible owners there is literally no reason to be against firearm ownership.
guHGHUGHUH why are these debates still a fucking thing? The root cause is poverty. Not guns. AaAaaaaaaAAaaaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAaaaaa. Conservatives want to keep their guns and not pay taxes to support the kind of social net that would make gun crime not a thing like it is in many countries with higher rates of gun-ownership than the USA, but lower poverty rates. Liberals want to ban guns because the majority are just as dumb as the majority of conservatives. Liberal politicians run on "gun control" because it promises a simple solution to a complex problem. Its literally "BUILD A WALL"-tier stuff. Actually solving the problem would require a lot of political will and capital that no one has, and it would take doing things that liberals oppose (maybe easing up the 1986 assault weapons ban?) and conservatives oppose (taxes for inner city, some common sense measures like gun safes, reporting your gun stolen, etc).
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310625]I don't know, the mere fact they almost got shot six times by the burglar is reason enough not to go inside for me. I'd rather get robbed than lie dead on my own house's floor.[/QUOTE] I'd rather neither happen, which is the case here. Look, obviously it's up to you what you want to do. When someone breaks into your house, shit yourself and hide under your bed or football tackle them through a window. Not everyones a hero and not everyones a coward. These people defended their home. I wish stories like this and similar to this one would stop being met with people shitposting "what idiots they probably shouldn't have done that don't you know how scary that is this isn't the movies you know lol boom stick meme" [editline]5th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;51310651]guHGHUGHUH why are these debates still a fucking thing? The root cause is poverty. Not guns. AaAaaaaaaAAaaaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAaaaaa. [/QUOTE] We all know this, most of these arguments don't even relate to gun ownership itself. It's been touched on a few times this thread, but threads similar to this one are more often about the morality of persuing a home invader, not whether or not it's okay to have guns.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51310645]my family???????[I]???????[/I] there is more in a house than property[/QUOTE] My argument relies on that you and your family are already at a safe place. So, that from there, you should rather wait on the cops, than face the intruder yourself.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;51310615]I really don't get why you have such a raging hardon for this point you're trying to make. We get it, you hold no value in your possessions, i'm real happy for you. But i worked hard to be where i am now, i'm not about to let some jackass take me back to square one. Call me material, i frankly don't much care. I'm well within my rights as an American to defend myself and my things. I'm aware that your country doesn't hold the same laws as mine, and i respect that. I can only hope that you eventually can do the same.[/QUOTE] It's not that I hold no value in my possessions, it's that I don't value them over a human life, be it mine or one of my loved one's. It's what you claim too but it seems rather contradictory when you say you're ready to risk your life to keep them. I'm not even talking about laws or rights or whatever. It's just that the American mindset of "gotta protect my stuff with my life" seems absurd to me.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310663]My argument relies on that you and your family are already at a safe place. So, that from there, you should rather wait on the cops, than face the intruder yourself.[/QUOTE] then your argument is stupid and irrelevant idk what else you want me to say i could propose a hypothetical situation in which undead adolf hitler broke into my house to copulate with my two headed dog and all i had to defend myself with was a fully loaded water pistol and a pack of 5 gum let's talk about reality though
[QUOTE=RB33;51310597]Not spreading paranoid thoughts about intruders, always assuming the worst and everyone arming themselves are also things that help. They certainly help my country, as I hope we will never become like this.[/QUOTE] What paranoid thoughts? Why do you people call me paranoid over shit that actually fucking happened tens of thousands of times in the world? A guy breaks in my house. With a gun. I am paranoid for thinking that he may hurt me or my family? Are you fucking bulletproof? This is like saying im paranoid for thinking a lion will attack me, while theres an lion in my living room jumping on top of me attempting to kill me.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310663]My argument relies on that you and your family are already at a safe place. So, that from there, you should rather wait on the cops, than face the intruder yourself.[/QUOTE] So what the fuck am I supposed to do if someone robs me and I live in a one room apartment? Not everyone has a safe place to go in their place of residence. [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51310643]Whatever terrible thing he might do to your property is not worth risking your life for.[/QUOTE] And how the hell is anyone supposed to guess that the robber won't try something else when he see's that we're effectively powerless to resist.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51310672]then your argument is stupid and irrelevant idk what else you want me to say i could propose a hypothetical situation in which undead adolf hitler broke into my house to copulate with my two headed dog and all i had to defend myself with was a fully loaded water pistol and a pack of 5 gum let's talk about reality though[/QUOTE] Going in the vein of that unlikely hypothetical scenario, it's in our opinion that, given my roommate and I's training, we'd feel safer engaging the threat that is actively in our house than hiding with our SO's in one of the small bedrooms on the second floor with no chance of escape. If anyone wants to disagree with this, then I don't want to argue it. [I]We just disagree and that is fine.[/I]
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310666]It's not that I hold no value in my possessions, it's that I don't value them over a human life, be it mine or one of my loved one's. It's what you claim too but it seems rather contradictory when you say you're ready to risk your life to keep them. I'm not even talking about laws or rights or whatever. It's just that the American mindset of "gotta protect my stuff with my life" seems absurd to me.[/QUOTE] Good for you, you're not an American. I don't know how else i can explain it to you. Your views are clearly different from ours and repeating it isn't going to change any of our minds, friendo. I'm sorry, i don't know what else to say.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51310648]Imagine not taking action against a burglar because theres a chance that he might ignore you and just run off with your stuff. If I have a gun and someone breaks into my house I sure as fuck am going to try and stop them. I don't know what the hell they're gonna do and if I had kids in the house or other people who can't defend themselves then I'm responsible for them. If you're camping with your family and a fucking bear goes into your tent searching for food then I sure as fuck am going to shoot it, even though theres a chance it won't attack me. Leaving the lives of yourself and those living with you to chance is both stupid and horribly irresponsible. As for the "hurr dumb American hicks" argument. Most gun crime is committed through illegal and stolen firearms. To my knowledge legal gun owners don't just go out and kill people or rob them. Another point to address is the asinine belief that there's no reason to own a firearm. You don't need a reason to own a firearm, they're cool as fuck. Especially historical ones. So long as we have a system in place that keeps guns in the hands of responsible owners there is literally no reason to be against firearm ownership.[/QUOTE] What's wrong with taking a defensive approach? Best case scenario he goes off, worst case he goes after you anyway in which case you're in the exact same situation as if you went directly after him.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51310672]then your argument is stupid and irrelevant idk what else you want me to say i could propose a hypothetical situation in which undead adolf hitler broke into my house to copulate with my two headed dog and all i had to defend myself with was a fully loaded water pistol and a pack of 5 gum let's talk about reality though[/QUOTE] Well, the story this thread is about is the case i'm arguing for, though. If you already are not in immediate danger, retreat and wait on the cops. Should be common sense.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310643]Whatever terrible thing he might do to your property is not worth risking your life for.[/QUOTE] You have to be trolling at this point this is unblievable. Its as if you just didnt read any of the responses you recieved in this thread. I mean this whole thread is just insane.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310706]Well, the story this thread is about is the case i'm arguing for, though. If you already are at a safe place, retreat and wait on the cops. Should be common sense.[/QUOTE] We've been discussing hypotheticals this entire thread. Don't try and backpedal yourself out of a corner by saying that you're only discussing the article.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310666]It's not that I hold no value in my possessions, it's that I don't value them over a human life, be it mine or one of my loved one's. It's what you claim too but it seems rather contradictory when you say you're ready to risk your life to keep them.[/QUOTE] Sometimes you don't have a choice in what you risk your lives for. Sometimes, you do have a choice, but in the heat of the moment you don't exactly have time to sit down and write up a Pro/Cons list. [QUOTE=DeVotchKa;51310699]Good for you, you're not an American. I don't know how else i can explain it to you. Your views are clearly different from ours and repeating it isn't going to change any of our minds, friendo. I'm sorry, i don't know what else to say.[/QUOTE] This right here is the solution to 90% of the gun debates in SH. Problem is, anti-gun people just can't wrap their head around this different culture, or they insist that their way is simply better/more [I]humane.[/I]
[QUOTE=Jouska;51310707]You have to be trolling at this point this is unblievable. Its as if you just didnt read any of the responses you recieved in this thread. I mean this whole thread is just insane.[/QUOTE] I agree, there is a lot of insanity in this thead, we probably disagree from who, though. You justifying killing intruders because they might be the worst criminal ever is not convincing me. I'm not that easily scared. Having a duty to confront intruders instead of avoid risking your life is not something, I can agree with either.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310700]What's wrong with taking a defensive approach? Best case scenario he goes off, worst case he goes after you anyway in which case you're in the exact same situation as if you went directly after him.[/QUOTE] Because going on an offensive approach puts you in a better position then just waiting to see if he decides to do something? If the robber has a gun then it only takes a split second for him to shoot you with it. If the robber has a knife then you likely won't be able to react before he lunges at you. Taking a defensive approach puts you at an incredible disadvantage in a close quarters environment. Bare in mind that I'm not saying to kill the fucker, the threat of a firearm being pointed at you is more often then not enough for a home intruder to stop. [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51310725]I agree, there is a lot of insanity in this thead, we probably disagree from who, though. You justifying killing intruders because they might be the worst criminal ever is not convincing me. I'm not that easily scared. Having a duty to confront intruders instead of avoid risking your life is not something, I can agree with either.[/QUOTE] You know the chance of the robber escalating an attack after having a firearm pointed at him and the homeowner making his intent clear is probably about the same as the chance that a robber will simply ignore the people in the house if they have no means of resisting them. The probability card is a double edged sword.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51310727]Because going on an offensive approach puts you in a better position then just waiting to see if he decides to do something? If the robber has a gun then it only takes a split second for him to shoot you with it. If the robber has a knife then you likely won't be able to react before he lunges at you. Taking a defensive approach puts you at an incredible disadvantage in a close quarters environment. Bare in mind that I'm not saying to kill the fucker, the threat of a firearm being pointed at you is more often then not enough for a home intruder to stop.[/QUOTE] I'm referring to situations where you're in a different room and the burglar isn't aware you're here. Obviously if he's got you in his sights it's another matter entirely.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51310715]We've been discussing hypotheticals this entire thread. Don't try and backpedal yourself out of a corner by saying that you're only discussing the article.[/QUOTE] I haven't done anything else than argue based on what the article says. If you want to include vulnerable family members in your hypotheticals making it impossible not to act, that's your thing. I'm sticking to the article and that situation.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310742]I'm referring to situations where you're in a different room and the burglar isn't aware you're here. Obviously if he's got you in his sights it's another matter entirely.[/QUOTE] What if I live in a one room apartment?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51310751]What if I live in a one room apartment?[/QUOTE] Then unless you're good at hide and seek you should refer to step 2.
[QUOTE=RB33;51310743]I haven't done anything else than argue based on what the article says. If you want to include vulnerable family members in your hypotheticals making it impossible not to act, that's your thing.[/quote] Nice non-argument. [quote] I'm sticking to the article and that situation.[/QUOTE] Thats an utter lie. You've been addressing hypothetical situations the entire thread.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51310755]Nice non-argument. Thats an utter lie. You've been addressing hypothetical situations the entire thread.[/QUOTE] A hypothetical where the situation is the same as in the article, yes.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310754]Then unless you're good at hide and seek you should refer to step 2.[/QUOTE] Most houses aren't very large. It doesn't take long at all to pull a knife out and attack. Its actually faster to do that then draw and shoot a firearm. Furthermore if the intruder has a firearm drawn himself then he's going to be able to shoot you faster then you'll be able to shoot him. Going on a defensive stance and locking yourself in a room puts you at a large disadvantage if the intruder decides to do more then rob you. Even more so if you're dealing with other family members.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51310766]Most houses aren't very large. It doesn't take long at all to pull a knife out and attack. Its actually faster to do that then draw and shoot a firearm. Furthermore if the intruder has a firearm drawn himself then he's going to be able to shoot you faster then you'll be able to shoot him. Going on a defensive stance and locking yourself in a room puts you at a large disadvantage if the intruder decides to do more then rob you. Even more so if you're dealing with other family members.[/QUOTE] ? I don't see why you would be at a disadvantage after barricading yourself in a room and aiming your weapon at the entryway.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310784]? I don't see why you would be at a disadvantage after barricading yourself in a room and aiming your weapon at the entryway.[/QUOTE] You've kinda brought yourself full circle by pointing weaponry at a home invader.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51310784]? I don't see why you would be at a disadvantage after barricading yourself in a room and aiming your weapon at the entryway.[/QUOTE] how exactly are you going to find the time to barricade yourself in a room when theres an active home invasion going on, especially if you live in a tiny ass house like I do?
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;51310791]You've kinda brought yourself full circle by pointing weaponry at a home invader.[/QUOTE] Not if he doesn't come into the room? And in any case you're in a better position than if you went into your living room where the dude already is. At least when barricaded in a room you're sure to know where he'll come from. (And he won't hear you coming) [editline]5th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;51310803]how exactly are you going to find the time to barricade yourself in a room when theres an active home invasion going on, especially if you live in a tiny ass house like I do?[/QUOTE] Then just get behind the nearest cover and just aim at the door.
[QUOTE=Wazbat;51309115]Do robbers really harm the people though? Most with sense just know that getting caught for robbery is a lot lighter than murder or rape. [B]Rare cases exist where you get fucking nutjobs[/B] but there not that common. I guess I'm just used to a normal police response time being a matter of minutes[/QUOTE] And thus, it's justified.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;51310543]Fleeing your own home to be ransacked while you call the police may be fine where you're from, but it isn't here. Save your arguments for a crowd that cares, we're operating well within the limits of our laws.[/QUOTE] It's also pretty important to remember that there's a surprisingly high chance of the burglar not getting caught if allowed to get away. Burglars tend to get caught when a home owner forces them to surrender, someone gets a good enough view of them to help catch them, surveillance footage of them, or they've burglarized a lot of houses and eventually slip up and get caught, usually from something that can get traced back to them. So if you catch a burglar in your house by not letting them get away you're not simply protecting your own property and family but potentially the property and families of others as well. Plus some property can't really be replaced anyways (stuff with high sentimental value, computers/phones with important information on them, etc.) so just saying "it's only material things" isn't as valid a defense as people seem to think to begin with. And this is even more true in the case where the burglarized family is barely able to make ends meet anyways and/or has no insurance to cover a burglary. Anecdotal example but one of my ex-neighbors was a serial burglar. Guy was not a very smart person at all and yet it took the police over eight months to finally catch him when he was robbing multiple houses each week.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.