[QUOTE=Tosas;34631866]Valve's response, which I have just read, was short and solid. Should be enough[/QUOTE]
Where can I read this?
[QUOTE=Risonhighmer;34631933]Where can I read this?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/ttabvue-91202572-OPP-4.pdf[/url]
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
DENIED
[QUOTE=Tosas;34631949][url]http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/ttabvue-91202572-OPP-4.pdf[/url]
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
DENIED[/QUOTE]
Any chance you have a link to what valve are responding to in this PDF?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630860]I understand where Blizzard is coming from, it's kind of a dick move on Valve's part to go and trademark the name of a mod from someone else's game[/QUOTE]
They' could've used another name. Though in this age you have to patent or trademark anything to survive the greedy market.
But why now? Valve announced Dota 2 long time ago.
[QUOTE=Risonhighmer;34631982]Any chance you have a link to what valve are responding to in this PDF?[/QUOTE]
this is their response to the lawsuit
or do you mean like gabe commentating?
[QUOTE=Tosas;34632022]this is their response to the lawsuit
or do you mean like gabe commentating?[/QUOTE]
No I mean the legal document that valve is rebutting with their legal document.
This is ridiculous, how could Blizzard expect to win? It's not their trademark, DOTA was a mod someone made for their game, they have no rights over the name whatsoever, and the fact that valve have employed the people (or person?) that made the original DOTA just makes their case even stronger.
So from what I can see, Blizzard made Warcraft III, which was then modded by a long line of people, the most recent being Icefrog, into DotA. Then VALVe started to realize this DotA was super-cool and asked to make it into a full game, and Icefrog was cool with that so he joined VALVe to help them do it.
Blizzard has no case here. A third-party mod belongs to no-one but the creators, and the creators (or at least one of them) have chosen to give it to VALVe. Blizzard's just pissy because they aren't smart enough to both see and seize an opportunity.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630860]I understand where Blizzard is coming from, it's kind of a dick move on Valve's part to go and trademark the name of a mod from someone else's game[/QUOTE]
If they got the lead developer they are competely right here. No company should have the right to
trademark the work of a community, and especially if the one who had the idea is now working for someone
else he should still have every right to take HIS creative work with him.
On 6 August 2010, filed the trademark Valve DOTA in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office for registration. A year later, on 16 November 2011, Blizzard now officially lodged an objection. In 26 points to lead counsel for the California Development Studios, why it would be harmed, should be granted the right valve to the brand name of DOTA. The studio of Gabe Newell had to turn to 26 Period December 2011 to respond to what eventually came four days before the deadline, too.
Blizzard says about that name for many years closely associated with one's own community, that the mod with the game Warcraft 3 was only possible and that the term "Ancients", for the last character in DOTA, stands on the characters in the Warcraft universe is. Blizzard also points out that it is in competition with Valve to make a reception for confusion, errors and even fraud could and so the company would deal damage.
Quote:
Original by Blizzard
Valve has no rights in or to the DOTA mark. Valve has never released, distributed, or sold any products using the mark DOTA, or, for that matter, any of the DOTA cord. Valve did not coin the mark and has never DOTA Participated in the creation of the DotA mods. Indeed, Valve has never released, distributed, or sold any products that might conceivably using any title be shortened to the acronym DOTA.
Significantly shorter fall from the responses from Valve on the 26 points. Some are simple with a "Denied" completely rejected, accepted other claims only partially. Then refers the lawyer from Valve that Blizzard could not explain why it should get right that Blizzard has no exclusive rights to the trademark and that Valve had the right to have raised before Blizzard did. Accordingly, the court is asked to reject the appeal and allow the registration of the trademark DOTA for Valve.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630890]Blizzard made the game that allowed DOTA to exist in the first place
Valve is attempting to profit off what a completely unrelated modding community did[/QUOTE]
Don't forget that Valve actually offered the developer (IceFrog, lead designer since 2005) the opportunity to take it to a larger scale. And since IceFrog is on the team, I don't see that as an "unrelated community".
Sure, Blizzard made the platform for it to grow on. But sometimes it is better to move on. As far as I know, Blizzard showed no interest in reaching out and making the game. I'd say it all comes down to the developer of the original game and what direction he wants to take it. IceFrog chose Valve.
If Blizzard had really cared about Valve using the name DOTA, they would've acted sooner. They let Valve continue to develop the game months and months after announcing it, and now that people have seen how good it is, and Blizzard has seen how much money Valve could potentially make from it - only now do they want to stop Valve from making it. They probably hoped it would fail miserably, but now they've realised that it won't, and they're pouncing on them.
Blizzard are just a bunch of dicks.
Once Valve wins Valve could be a complete dick and sue Blizzard over their DotA
it'd be so appropriate, though Valve should probably be the better company and just let them make it
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630860]I understand where Blizzard is coming from, it's kind of a dick move on Valve's part to go and trademark the name of a mod from someone else's game[/QUOTE]
This happens in fucking every industry and nobody complains about it.
Imagine you're a guitarist. You buy some company's guitar and customize it and call it some stupid thing. Another company says "hey, we'll build you something to your own spec, so it doesn't have to be a modification, with better hardware and purpose-designed parts, and mass produce it under your name." This has happened before, in multiple industries (off the top of my head, vehicles, guns, other software companies) and never has the first company had a right to complain. To imply you have a right to the things someone else made from something you made automatically is ridiculous. This isn't the case for any other industry shy of the broken ones like pharma.
[QUOTE=CubeManv2;34630831]They go to court, ends up being who ever has the most money to blow[/QUOTE]
In terms of the most money to blow I've got a feeling Valve has gained plenty of revenue from
Mann Co store. So all those keys meant something.
If DOTA is a fan made mod, and Valve are making a commercial sequel to it, then do they not have the right to trademark it? Since it's going to be making money and it's a modification? Something like with Counter Strike? Would it not be like suing Valve when CSS got made because that took a mod and made sold it. Makes sense for Valve to trademark it since they are making money on it I guess.
[QUOTE=Over-Run;34632587]If DOTA is a fan made mod, and Valve are making a commercial sequel to it, then do they not have the right to trademark it? Since it's going to be making money and it's a modification? Something like with Counter Strike? Would it not be like suing Valve when CSS got made because that took a mod and made sold it. Makes sense for Valve to trademark it since they are making money on it I guess.[/QUOTE]
IceFrog wants it made into a commercial game and has given them the trademark. So no it isn't.
The bias in this thread is stunning.
[QUOTE=Over-Run;34632587]If DOTA is a fan made mod, and Valve are making a commercial sequel to it, then do they not have the right to trademark it? Since it's going to be making money and it's a modification? Something like with Counter Strike? Would it not be like suing Valve when CSS got made because that took a mod and made sold it. Makes sense for Valve to trademark it since they are making money on it I guess.[/QUOTE]
I think the major problem is with them trademarking Dota, not Dota 2. The first one, and the term on its own.
Also, everyone who says Blizzard was too stupid to take this opportunity or whatever: They promoted the fuck out of Dota and made very good use of it to promote Warcraft 3.
[QUOTE=proch;34632677]The bias in this thread is stunning.[/QUOTE]
How is it bias, valve has the last lead fucking developer of dota making dota 2. And as people has said earlier in the thread, this is no different from ID all of the sudden suing valve for making team fortress classic and team fortress 2.
Didn't they already try to sue Valve over this?
I could have sworn something super similar to this has already happened.
Th[I]s is just s steaming pile of[/I] oh god where'd those italics come from?
[QUOTE=slayer20;34632708]Didn't they already try to sue Valve over this?
I could have sworn something super similar to this has already happened.[/QUOTE]
I believe this is the same case.
[QUOTE=Crimor;34632703]How is it bias, valve has the last lead fucking developer of dota making dota 2. And as people has said earlier in the thread, this is no different from ID all of the sudden suing valve for making team fortress classic and team fortress 2.[/QUOTE]
While I don't deny that it is a really stupid move, you can't forget that Valve did trademark a name of another companies mod. It really wouldn't take much effort to change the name, instead of taking the exactly same one.
Fucking Blzzard they've really really gone downhill over the last years and i start to dislike them more and more --_-- ffs. all they think of is money money money
[QUOTE=proch;34632774]While I don't deny that it is a really stupid move, you can't forget that Valve did trademark a name of another companies mod. It really wouldn't take much effort to change the name, instead of taking the exactly same one.[/QUOTE]
A company does not own the mods people make, simple as that, and icetoad came to valve with his game(Since he was the lead developer at the time), and wanted to make it into a standalone game, thus the naming rights are valves, because the previous owner has joined valve and is now making a game about it.
[QUOTE=smfE;34632782]Fucking Blzzard they've really really gone downhill over the last years and i start to dislike them more and more --_-- ffs. all they think of is money money money[/QUOTE]
It's probably their activision side
[QUOTE=Crimor;34632785]A company does not own the mods people make, simple as that, and icetoad came to valve with his game(Since he was the lead developer at the time), and wanted to make it into a standalone game, thus the naming rights are valves, because the previous owner has joined valve and is now making a game about it.[/QUOTE]
If that is true, I stand corrected on that topic.
But still
[QUOTE=shian;34631031]Valve>Blizzard[/QUOTE]
that is the opinion of most people of Facepunch, since it is a forum firstly based on a mod of a Valve game. The bias is not surprising at all, it's always like this in Valve related threads.
[QUOTE=proch;34632774]While I don't deny that it is a really stupid move, you can't forget that Valve did trademark a name of another companies mod. It really wouldn't take much effort to change the name, instead of taking the exactly same one.[/QUOTE]
It's a MOD, mods have always went further than the boundaries of a single game, and most importantly do not belong to the original game's developer. It's not a dick move or even a bullshit business tactic, Valve just went on with its policy of making full independent games out of promising mods. Blizzard can't do anything else than keep it shut now because they had roughly five years to decide if they wanted to make themselves a game out of that popular mod, and they never made a choice.
It would be a bullshit move if Blizzard was developing its own DOTA sequel and steam decided to make some concurrence against it by immediately hiring the previous mod's devs and work on their own game named DotA 2, but it's not the case, so yeah.
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=proch;34632800]that is the opinion of most people of Facepunch, since it is a forum firstly based on a mod of a Valve game. The bias is not surprising at all, it's always like this in Valve related threads.[/QUOTE]
There's a lot of people here who barely if not never played Garry's Mod and a bunch who downright hate steam and sometimes valve (for having made steam).
Plus, Valve is generally recognized as a "superior" company because it's much closer to the players than Blizzard. The latter has proven several times lately that they just don't give a fuck about their fanbase, and that they pretty much do what please them and their wallet, while steam still tried to stay in communication with the customer and satisfy him with more than just good games.
It's like two excellent restaurants with excellent food, only there's one where you are treated like shit/just another customer and the other that's much more convivial and familiar and welcoming.
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