Blizzard is Suing Valve - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;34635193]Isn't the Source engine just heavily modified version of the quake engine?[/QUOTE] Pretty much all engines can trace their roots to Quake's engine in some form. GoldSrc was basically an upgraded Quake engine, but Source only shares very low level, basic stuff with Quake.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;34634325]They hired the original dev(s) that made it though, right? and he's working on the sequel. Wouldn't that give them the right to make the mod?[/QUOTE] Well "original" dev. Icefrog took over from someone. Dota had a pretty big group of people working on it from time to time. Though most of them went off to make lol and or Hon. The thing is, Blizzard is essentially claiming that the IP is thiers due to it being run on their game and because it was created with their tools. Hell they even changed the user agreement for SC2 world editor so that you are forced to waive all your rights to the mod itself and ownership of the entire thing falls to blizzard, including the IP.

[QUOTE=Don Knotts;34630965]This just in, Blizzard also suing Basshunter.[/QUOTE] This just in, Blizzard sues Dairy Queen

If blizzard wanted to make a Dota franchise they should have hired the guy who created it, oh wait......Valve beat you to it, should have hired him first then Blizzard so fuck off you have no claim.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;34635403] Hell they even changed the user agreement for SC2 world editor so that you are forced to waive all your rights to the mod itself and ownership of the entire thing falls to blizzard, including the IP.[/QUOTE] The fuck? That's ridiculous. Blizzard just lost my respect completely, they'll do anything to get money. Inbefore Valve wins, celebrates with a Steam sale.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;34630892]it does make sense if you read the document itself. don't mindlessly bash blizzard, [URL="http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91202572&pty=OPP&eno=1"]give it a read.[/URL][/QUOTE] i read it.... that thing is quite strong i feel like valve has lost already

[QUOTE=Saber15;34635389]Pretty much all engines can trace their roots to Quake's engine in some form. GoldSrc was basically an upgraded Quake engine, but Source only shares very low level, basic stuff with Quake.[/QUOTE] I know I was reading about mapping in quake and was surprised at how similar it sounded to mapping in source. It does the same optimization thing where you need to have the map interior completely sealed off from the "Void" for it to work properly and stuff like that.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;34630947]Icefrog has the rights to the game and went with valve, it's a pretty clear case. Yeah people associate DotA with Warcraft III but that's clearly not where Icefrog wanted to go.[/QUOTE] No he doesn't according to the law papers, it was Riot Games who owned the name until Riot Games just recently sold it to Blizzard. [quote=Law Papers] In 2008, Feak (IceFrog) and Mescon each assigned all of their rights in and to the DotA Mods and the DotA-Allstars Website to "DotA-Allstars, LLC." In 2010, DotA-Allstars, 9 LLC was purchased by Riot Games, Inc. In 2011, Riot transferred DotA-Allstars, LLC to Blizzard. [/quote]

[img]http://www.suprlol.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Tic8N.gif[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("What does this have to do with the thread subject" - Orkel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;34630905]But that's what it is, a mod. Blizzard have no more claim to it than Valve do.[/QUOTE] You'd have a point if it wasn't for the fact, according to 99% of game editor's EULA's, any work you do that adds or changes an aspect of their game, belongs to the parent company. Assuming DOTA was made with an editor, and assuming this editor had an EULA like the above in it (which most editors in the past 10 years, including Bethesda and Valve, have), or assuming the game had a clause in it where any changes made to the game are the property of Blizzard, then blizzard is 100% in the right to sue. Since according to the EULA of the tools used by the DOTA team, Blizzard owns that property. Of course, if Warcraft III had no such EULA or they didn't use any tools, then Valve are in the right here.

I am a Blizzard fanboy and Valve fanboy and I can faithfully say this is all Bobby's fault, God damn Activison half of Blizzard.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;34635162]By his logic, valve should be sued by ID for TF2 and TF classic because it was originally a quake mod.[/QUOTE] How is this dumb? Okay. Popular game is modded by a team, the mod becomes very popular and is taken by valve and made into a game as a sequel. This sentence can be used for either DOTA2 or TF2.

[QUOTE=Fangz;34637083]No he doesn't according to the law papers, it was Riot Games who owned the name until Riot Games just recently sold it to Blizzard.[/QUOTE] The plot thickens.

I knew dota 2 was a bad idea valve should have stayed on fps games.

[QUOTE=thisisacc;34637607]I knew dota 2 was a bad idea valve should have stayed on fps games.[/QUOTE] Dota as a FPS? I'm sold.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;34634897]Say whatever the fuck you like, at least Blizzard doesn't have a timezone named after them.[/QUOTE] No, they just have "Soon (tm)"

[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630860]I understand where Blizzard is coming from, it's kind of a dick move on Valve's part to go and trademark the name of a mod from someone else's game[/QUOTE] Thats the thing though. [I][B]ITS A MOD[/B][/I] [B]NOT[/B] Blizzard's creation.

You guys should know that Blizzard aren't trying to trademark it themselves, so all of you saying "THEY'RE JUST MONEY GRABBING!" should re-read the article

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;34634635]tad bit of an issue at this point considering its a commercial product...[/QUOTE] Dota isn't a commercial product, the second one is. The issue is over the first.

And this news is the last little push I needed to unsubscribe from WoW.

Not sure about this one, or how I think it'll play out. I naturally want to side with Valve, but it does seem like Blizzard might have a case. And while I do like Blizzard enough, it does seem like they're just crying over losing the opportunity to make Dota 2 themselves.

Its like asking for permission on using someones else's toolbox, getting the okay and then you go to make a shelf, and then they come along and say that the shelf that you built with their tools belongs to them.

Blizzard DOTA That's like if Atari made Atari HL2

[QUOTE=Charlievrw;34640824]And this news is the last little push I needed to unsubscribe from WoW.[/QUOTE] Am I the only one that feels that stuff like this is retarded? If you enjoy anything for example videos, games, magazines and they do stupid shit that has nothing to do with what you enjoy that they make why would you just unsubscribe? I don't play world of warcraft but that is irrational argument.

Heh, 7 pages... Why the fuck did this lawsuit take so long? The longer they waited the more they could sue for infringement or what? [editline]10th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Chaoss86;34637194][img]http://www.suprlol.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Tic8N.gif[/img] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("What does this have to do with the thread subject" - Orkel))[/highlight][/QUOTE] my sides

[QUOTE=KorJax;34637234]You'd have a point if it wasn't for the fact, according to 99% of game editor's EULA's, any work you do that adds or changes an aspect of their game, belongs to the parent company. Assuming DOTA was made with an editor, and assuming this editor had an EULA like the above in it (which most editors in the past 10 years, including Bethesda and Valve, have), or assuming the game had a clause in it where any changes made to the game are the property of Blizzard, then blizzard is 100% in the right to sue. Since according to the EULA of the tools used by the DOTA team, Blizzard owns that property. Of course, if Warcraft III had no such EULA or they didn't use any tools, then Valve are in the right here.[/QUOTE] This man has it right. This is what's really important in a case like this, the wording of the EULA and its provisions on use of the game editor and products/modifications made from said editor. I don't have a copy of the WarCraft 3 EULA handy, and can't be arsed to track it down and read through it, but if it has a provision stating something along the lines of "anything you make with the WC3 tools is property of Blizzard" then that's a major blow to Valve's defense. I do not know and would rather not speculate how well this will hold up in court, as often EULAs are completely tossed when met with a legal challenge. For reference, iD games and Valve games usually do not have provisions like that (I haven't read the EULA for Portal 2 or RAGE though) so whatever was made with those tools is property of the owner. Its why mods like Natural Selection, Team Fortress, et cetera have been able to go retail with little to no legal trouble. But since around 2001-ish this is the exception in the industry, not the norm.

Scenarios I have predicted: If Blizzard takes the title - Possible monthly fees with a base fee of roughly $60; 20$ DLC packs that may or may not include game-enhancing items ; Bad support ; An unfinished, rushed game with a lot of cut content If Valve takes the title - Comes out maybe $40 but will drop to about $20 in a few months ; Free DLC, but takes a couple more months than originally stated due to Valve-Time ; DOTA CO. in-game store, complete with Crates and some Australian-muscle-man-equivalent mascot ; Slow support ; Slightly buggy gameplay and may crash a lot ... ; And hats But in any case, Blizzard's just butthurt that they didn't get to it first. They had all the time in the world to get around to it (in fact they had about a year to speak up about DOTA 2), but did they? Nope, just gonna keep shoveling out more fertilizer for World of Warcraft to keep the subscriptions coming in and keep the complaints of new updates out.

[QUOTE=Frost 31;34641668]This man has it right. This is what's really important in a case like this, the wording of the EULA and its provisions on use of the game editor and products/modifications made from said editor. I don't have a copy of the WarCraft 3 EULA handy, and can't be arsed to track it down and read through it, but if it has a provision stating something along the lines of "anything you make with the WC3 tools is property of Blizzard" then that's a major blow to Valve's defense. I do not know and would rather not speculate how well this will hold up in court, as often EULAs are completely tossed when met with a legal challenge. For reference, iD games and Valve games usually do not have provisions like that (I haven't read the EULA for Portal 2 or RAGE though) so whatever was made with those tools is property of the owner. Its why mods like Natural Selection, Team Fortress, et cetera have been able to go retail with little to no legal trouble. But since around 2001-ish this is the exception in the industry, not the norm.[/QUOTE] Except that EULAs are virtually impossible to enforce in a courtroom.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630890][i]Blizzard made the game that allowed DOTA to exist in the first place[/i] Valve is attempting to profit off what a completely unrelated modding community did[/QUOTE] aahaha, your acting as if that hasn't happened before great job just because they made the game that allowed another game to exist in the first place doesn't mean shit Look at Metro 2033, it's CLEARLY based off Fallout 3 and Stalker's art, just look at minecraft, just look at reckoning, just look at Unreal tournament, just look at tons of games out there that are based off other games really now? hell, theres hundreds of engines stemming from the quake engine and hundreds of games using unreal engine / source, if it wasn't for unreal or half-life we wouldn't have [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Source_engine_games[/url] or this huge list [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games[/url] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;34631079]It has the exact same to do with both companies actually. DOTA 1 : Engine provided by Blizzard, modder Icefrog makes a mod out of it. DOTA 2 : Engine provided by Valve, modder Icefrog makes a game out of it. Valve just took a good decision by hiring the guys who made the first mod and taking the copyright for the game, while Blizzard did nothing and just waited until someone took a decision they should have taken a while ago to complain about it.[/QUOTE] you know I never really liked blizzard, ever, anyways [QUOTE=thisispain;34631234]why do you guys have to pick sides on this issue exactly? i mean i know it's a forum and shit, but aren't you basically just picking which company you like the most and declaring they should win? that's not how civil law works.[/QUOTE] we're balancing whose right and whose wrong it's called a forum, you're meant to debate/discuss things on a forum. Not not read and go "lol what are you guys doing wow" [QUOTE=Zeke129;34631406]Nobody had dota trademarked when Valve went for it, that's why there's controversy[/QUOTE] then whats the issue? [QUOTE=smfE;34632782]Fucking Blzzard they've really really gone downhill over the last years and i start to dislike them more and more --_-- ffs. all they think of is money money money[/QUOTE] isn't that the point of a business? to make money?

I might be late but remember the Bethesda VS Mojang thing?