[QUOTE=Robbobin;29255268]Functionalism has some kinda weird conclusions. If you're committed to the idea that consciousness is the function itself, consciousness can be reduced to computer functions, and even a complex system of [i]flag waving[/i]. This puts a lot of people off the view, but personally I really like the idea...[/QUOTE]
i'd love to believe in that, but i tend not to completely believe in something without perfect evidence of it
the problem with consciousness is that it is almost impossible to understand it since we 'are' it
example is that you can't see what a planet looks like from the outside if you're inside (not to taken literally)
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29255326]I don't understand why someone would be put off by that. I've always found the idea of finding consciousness in something like that interesting.[/QUOTE]
Me too! I really like the seemingly absurd conclusions mechanical philosophy gives you. The idea of cosmological consciousness is one of the most fascinating, romantic thoughts ever, for me. I think it's partly an ego thing; people want to be special.
Oh god they mentioned the word entanglement
That's only heard in like, sci-fi! :buddy:
[QUOTE=Robbobin;29255553]Me too! I really like the seemingly absurd conclusions mechanical philosophy gives you. The idea of cosmological consciousness is one of the most fascinating, romantic thoughts ever, for me. I think it's partly an ego thing; people want to be special.[/QUOTE]
I've never even really thought of it as absurd. It's just a structure we're used to seeing in a very smal range of forms (animals) arising somewhere unexpected.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29255479]Well those consciousnesses are obviously going to become distinct over time since they're put into different environments and they're both still in the same universe. I think the issue is bringing up the notion of "you being." I don't think it's possible to define the idea of someone being a consciousness outside the consciousness itself. I think the idea of "am I this consciousness" is broken. A consciousness is itself. It's just a system of particles arranged in such a way that self-awareness arises. There's no real control. They're not distinct in some way that non self-aware systems are not.[/QUOTE]
Ah. Now I see what you mean. I'll have to dwell on this further.
On a side note, I'm now really interested to find out what happens when you die.
What happens to who?
The other thing I want to see in my lifetime is a sentient AI. If we could do it, it would give us some evidence in favour of functionalism.
Imo it's like asking "What happens to a chair when you take it apart?" Well it's not a chair anymore, is it? So nothing happens to the chair.
[editline]17th April 2011[/editline]
This discussion has got me in such a sciencey mood. I think I may do my homework.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29255661]What happens to who?[/QUOTE]
That is a fucking infuriating question :v:
What happens to me, I guess, but if we're going on the concept of lack of self, then it's a non-question...
[QUOTE=Turnips5;29255711]That is a fucking infuriating question :v:
What happens to me, I guess, but if we're going on the concept of lack of self, then it's a non-question...[/QUOTE]
Whether or not you believe in the self, it has to be created by your consiousness, and that's been completely obliterated.
Something that's always frightened me is serious brain injury. Like being shot in the head and surviving. The idea of being alive and conscious but not able to think and any meaningful way bothers me.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29255771]Something that's always frightened me is serious brain injury. Like being shot in the head and surviving. The idea of being alive and conscious but not able to think and any meaningful way bothers me.[/QUOTE]
Man EXACTLY the same here, that's fucked up
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29255771]The idea of being alive and conscious but not able to think and any meaningful way bothers me.[/QUOTE]
What is being conscious if you cannot think?
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29252908]Nothing. That's not what's being argued. We're arguing what makes the original special, if anything.
I don't deny that they're different objects, but if they're physically indistinguishable, how can you say, "That guy died, this is a different person." They share all memories, experiences, and qualities.[/QUOTE]
You're missing my point, any other perspective than my own is irrelevant. For my original consciousness, there is no difference between using a teleporter and shooting myself in the head.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29256716]You're missing my point, any other perspective than my own is irrelevant. For my original consciousness, there is no difference between using a teleporter and shooting myself in the head.[/QUOTE]
Why is the experience of a consciousness that is identical to yours not "your own?"
here we go
again
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29256790]Why is the experience of a consciousness that is identical to yours not "your own?"[/QUOTE]
Why would it be? Just because it's identical to you doesn't mean it is you. Making a perfect copy won't make it so you experience the before and after of teleportation, only implant memories on a copy that you did. The new you would belive they had gone in and out the teleporter and and survived, when they really hadn't. If you copied every bit of information on one computer to another, it would think it had done a whole bunch of computer stuff that it never really did.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29257110]Why would it be? Just because it's identical to you doesn't mean it is you.[/QUOTE]
For that to be true you have to define some concept of the self that I don't think exists.
I think I have a decent analogy for the destruction-teleportation. You print words on a piece of paper, then write with an invisible ink pen. You then take that paper and fax it to someone, Then tear apart the original. The paper appears the same, but it is different, because it lacks the invisible ink.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29257255]For that to be true you have to define some concept of the self that I don't think exists.[/QUOTE]
It seems like believe in some form of quantum immortality, were as long as your consciousness exists somewhere, then your perceive a continued existence.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29257369]It seems like believe in some form of quantum immortality, were as long as your consciousness exists somewhere, then your perceive a continued existence.[/QUOTE]
Eeeehhh sort of but not really.
but if the ink is invisible, how do you know it's there, if it wasn't you who wrote it? :smug:
or are you god
omg
god
give me portal 2 on steam please!
[QUOTE=Fatman55;29203431]I know it sounds stupid but I would [B]never[/B] go into a teleporter.
Not because I would be scared of just not coming out the other end but what if you were destroyed and then it was basically a copy, nobody would ever be able to tell either.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I've thought that over and over. You were actually destroyed and everyone believes that the clone is you. I actually saw an episode of the Twilight zone or something where their teleporter failed and the original copy had to be killed after.
I'd just like to say that this was the best thread I've been part of so far. I've never liked a discussion here so much ever since '06. Well done.
[QUOTE=Gonzales Santos;29259061]I'd just like to say that this was the best thread I've been part of so far. I've never liked a discussion here so much ever since '06. Well done.[/QUOTE]
It really has been a very good discussion.
if it makes the porn load any faster i guess it's cool
[QUOTE=AaronM202;29202974]It said destroying and recreating, i think that would kill you and rebirth you as a mindless braindead hunk of flesh.[/QUOTE]
You thought slow zombies were scary
Then you thought fast zombies were scary
Have you even thought about [I]teleporting zombies[/I]
I like this
The idea of teleporting humans scare the shit out of me.
There is no way for a human to be broken down and transported somewhere else where he will still live, the whole idea behind teleportation is basically to replicate and recreate you somewhere else while removing the first one.
I don't believe in souls so I don't believe that your "original mind" would be transported to the new body. The new body would have an exact replica of your mind, it would think it was you, it would think it went through the teleportation process perfectly. However although identical to you, you will never experience what your teleported clone feels like, because you were destroyed in the process of creating him.
So I don't think teleporting live creatures will ever be possible, only cloning them instantly.
So I'd prefer if we continued only with inanimate objects and information, things without consciousness.
not cool at all
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