[QUOTE=Simski;29263832]The idea of teleporting humans scare the shit out of me.
There is no way for a human to be broken down and transported somewhere else where he will still live, the whole idea behind teleportation is basically to replicate and recreate you somewhere else while removing the first one.
I don't believe in souls so I don't believe that your "original mind" would be transported to the new body. The new body would have an exact replica of your mind, it would think it was you, it would think it went through the teleportation process perfectly. However although identical to you, you will never experience what your teleported clone feels like, because you were destroyed in the process of creating him.
So I don't think teleporting live creatures will ever be possible, only cloning them instantly.
So I'd prefer if we continued only with inanimate objects and information, things without consciousness.[/QUOTE]
Unless we find a way to bend space-time and create miniature wormholes. Which is awesome.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;29257317]I think I have a decent analogy for the destruction-teleportation. You print words on a piece of paper, then write with an invisible ink pen. You then take that paper and fax it to someone, Then tear apart the original. The paper appears the same, but it is different, because it lacks the invisible ink.[/QUOTE]
Nah, cause if one has the ink and one doesn't they're not identical.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;29257317]I think I have a decent analogy for the destruction-teleportation. You print words on a piece of paper, then write with an invisible ink pen. You then take that paper and fax it to someone, Then tear apart the original. The paper appears the same, but it is different, because it lacks the invisible ink.[/QUOTE]
What's the relevance of the invisible ink? Is that supposed to be the soul or something?
If we can teleport people, why bother destroying the original?
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
Just seems like a waste to me.
To the dumbs: by teleport, I mean deconstruct and reconstruct the original, not 'physically' move the original. Surely it would be possible, in this hypothetical future, to merely scan the original at a sufficient level and then replicate it.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29252908]Nothing. That's not what's being argued. We're arguing what makes the original special, if anything.
I don't deny that they're different objects, but if they're physically indistinguishable, how can you say, "That guy died, this is a different person." They share all memories, experiences, and qualities.[/QUOTE]
That's true from a third person perspective, should you meet your copy your thoughts, acts and everything would be identical BUT, from a first person perspective your awareness would be destroyed. From the moment you are broken down YOUR life as you know it would be over and would be continued by the copy at the other end and THAT is what would put people off. Sure your body would continue but the consciousness as YOU know know it would cease to exist.
[editline]18th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Contag;29270035]If we can teleport people, why bother destroying the original?
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
Just seems like a waste to me.[/QUOTE]
The original is destroyed as part of the process, without that step the teleportation would not be able to take place.
[QUOTE=sam.clarke;29270583]That's true from a third person perspective, should you meet your copy your thoughts, acts and everything would be identical BUT, from a first person perspective your awareness would be destroyed. From the moment you are broken down YOUR life as you know it would be over and would be continued by the copy at the other end and THAT is what would put people off. Sure your body would continue but the consciousness as YOU know know it would cease to exist.[/QUOTE]
But it's impossible to discern whether there is a metaphysical component, or whether consciousness is an illusion. The ramifications of consciousness being an illusion are huge, and antithetical to our understanding of the world, but it is possible.
I, for one, hope there is something akin to souls, so this is avoided. It would be impossible to test experimentally in any case.
[QUOTE=Contag;29270632]
I, for one, hope there is something akin to souls, so this is avoided. It would be impossible to test experimentally in any case.[/QUOTE]
You don't know what the corporations and governments would be willing to do if there was a possibility of a real teleportation travel breakthrough.
[QUOTE=Falchion;29270660]You don't know what the corporations and governments would be willing to do if there was a possibility of a real teleportation travel breakthrough.[/QUOTE]
Could you clarify what you mean? What is this in relation to?
[QUOTE=Contag;29270632]But it's impossible to discern whether there is a metaphysical component, or whether consciousness is an illusion. The ramifications of consciousness being an illusion are huge, and antithetical to our understanding of the world, but it is possible.
I, for one, hope there is something akin to souls, so this is avoided. It would be impossible to test experimentally in any case.[/QUOTE]
Granted, awareness is a evolutionary function that allows us to understand our surroundings but as has been said before, while it may be possible to duplicate, it will be impossible to seamlessly transport one's 'human awareness' from one location to the next. Like has been mentioned above, Copy A will NEVER experience that of Copy B. The consciousness, awareness, soul or whatever you may call it that existed in Copy A will be destroyed, copied and rebuilt in a new location, but not transported. At an atomic level, they will be identical, on a human level they will be different, at least until we understand what it is.
[QUOTE=sam.clarke;29270810]Granted, awareness is a evolutionary function that allows us to understand our surroundings but as has been said before, while it may be possible to duplicate, it will be impossible to seamlessly transport one's 'human awareness' from one location to the next. Like has been mentioned above, Copy A will NEVER experience that of Copy B.[/QUOTE]
But you're working with a purely concrete conceptualization - what if souls (or whatever you want to call it) do exist?
Obviously that's not the domain of science, because it's not provable, so anything beyond that is less than conjecture, but even so.
Personally, I hope we master the use of wormholes before we do molecular deconstruction and reconstruction. That way, we can avoid all the philosophical questions that ultimately have no answer, because they deal with things that aren't able to be proved.
Indeed. A teleporter pad is essentially an execution platform. And even if there were such things as souls, it wouldn't be transported, and i'd be left swimming in some ethereal sea, without a body, sleepless and tireless, losing my sanity, whilst some clone is walking around thinking he's the real Slim Shady.
I'm more interested in the packets of light thing.
If they could do electrical energy I hope one day for quantum internet so I don't have to put up with the fucking lag.
But we won't get that in Australia until after the singularity when all humanity is basically a giant hivemind.
Do you store memories/ impulses as electrical or chemical signals? If it's proper entanglement (2 the same over distance) then the new body would be "alive" upon creation. But if it was a "clone" wouldn't it have to be for want of a better phrase jump started? IE defib etc.
In a nutshell, teleporting a person implies cloning every single part of them.
Still, the original one is destroyed, which means the clone has a different consciousness, AKA the real you doesn't live ever again.
If you didn't destroy the original, would you have TWO of the same person as seperate consciousnesses.
The only one that suffers the consequences would be you. Because the actual you doesn't live again. Ever.
This would be a lot easier to explain if anyone knew what happens after death.
[QUOTE=Sgt. Lulz;29271900]In a nutshell, teleporting a person implies cloning every single part of them.
Still, the original one is destroyed, which means the clone has a different consciousness, AKA the real you doesn't live ever again.
If you didn't destroy the original, would you have TWO of the same person as seperate consciousnesses.
The only one that suffers the consequences would be you. Because the actual you doesn't live again. Ever.
This would be a lot easier to explain if anyone knew what happens after death.[/QUOTE]
Why would it be a lot easier to explain if anyone knew what happened after death? The teleportation process would be the same no matter what happened. And the notion that anything special happens after death is dumb imho. Your entire consciousness is composed of the interactions between electric signals and chemicals. When you die they stop working and nothing more. What was previously classified as you won't exist (well yes, as other forms of energy, you still won't be conscious. The "you" was a certain combinations of those chemicals and waves that isn't around anymore).
Seriously, we have put so many other beliefs, that had somehow survived since early humanity, behind us because they were too irrational, why would consciousness after death be any more probable.
Don't you fucking dare turn this into a religious debate guys.
Edit: It is common knowgledge already that facepunch is cool, hip, young and atheist.
[QUOTE=Falchion;29272679]Don't you fucking dare turn this into a religious debate guys.
Edit: It is common knowgledge already that facepunch is cool, hip, young and atheist.[/QUOTE]
This angsty teen atheist stereotype has got to die, I was talking to my mum the other day and I found out she's stopped believing in God too :v:
but yeah please don't
[QUOTE=Turnips5;29274177]This angsty teen atheist stereotype has got to die, I was talking to my mum the other day and I found out she's stopped believing in God too :v:
but yeah please don't[/QUOTE]
The angry white young male stereotype is quite accurate on the other hand. Atleast here on facepunch. Not talking about us atheists in general.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29204227]An exact copy IS the same person. There is no soul or metaphysical essence of person. A person consists entirely of the physical state of their body.[/QUOTE]If there were 2 exact copies, would you see through the eyes of both?
Well have no need for HDDs or SSDs for PC's because everything will be streamable.
Except the servers will have giant data vaults.
Incredible..... And to think that 10000 years ago all we had was sticks and stones.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;29202988]Too bad, though the scientists got all the time they need.
Makes me want to skip 1000 years.[/QUOTE]
Until you realize the curve of technological advancement squares. 100 years ago they used horses and rare hard lines to call and communicate. See what technology is at today? You hear the news, where technology is going next year? Movies like Avatar were deemed impossible 10 years ago, and not even a year later we've practically passed that 'milestone' by far already.
You say 1000 years, I keep my bet on about 100 years for teleportation to be functional for small organisms. At max.
Also - if you're interested in the future of technology;
[url]http://futuretimeline.net/[/url]
Beam me up, scotty!
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;29274771]If there were 2 exact copies, would you see through the eyes of both?[/QUOTE]
No. Receiving and interpreting light is performed by the eyes and the brain, not some metaphysical 'soul' that may or may not exist. When it is said that the copies are the same it also means that there is no difference between them.
If you cannot empirically observe a difference between two objects then it can be said that there is no difference between them. If the objects are not different then they are the same.
Of course, there will always be differences since two things cannot exist in the same place at the same time and that will results in deviations both physiologically and psychologically assuming we're talking about people. However, while physical influences can affect a person's psychology, whether or not a 'soul' has any influence does not have any evidence to suggest so.
My defintion of consciousness is simply the state of cognitive awareness and being able to respond to stimuli both internal and external. You're welcome to use whatever definition you like but I'm stating what I mean by consciousness if I ever use the word later. To me, 'consciousness' is real but a 'soul' may or may not be.
Then computers with sensors attached are conscious by your definition.
I'll wait til we have wormholes before I do any parsec distance travelling, fuck teleportation, my aim in life is to avoid vivisection by quanta scale forces.
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