[QUOTE=mokkan;29207424]I can't do that.[/QUOTE]
The brain isn't the same as consciousness. It is a vessel. Even the chemical reactions are not consciousness. They merely create it.
[QUOTE=Jager_57;29207425]I see that now, Agreed. In your experiment the consciousness could possibly stay in the same place.
You failed to address where it goes when there is no clone however.[/QUOTE]
Where does your consciousness go when you're asleep? Nowhere, but it's there when you wake up. Assuming you're conscious when you teleport, you would come out the other side with thoughts and memories.
Are they sure it works? I still have nightmares about that cat...
[quote]
The process involves 'Schrodinger's cat'. Unfortunately it's not a real feline, but a hypothetical experiment first carried out in the 1935.[/quote]
How is that unfortunate? that poor cat
[QUOTE=jaykray;29207484]Where does your consciousness go when you're asleep? Nowhere, but it's there when you wake up. Assuming you're conscious when you teleport, you would come out the other side with thoughts and memories.[/QUOTE]
Theoretically, it is possible that you die when you go to sleep, but I do not hold this view. As long as the chemical reactions in the brain are still going, it's probably in stasis.
[QUOTE=noobcake;29204114]It sort of would. Assuming a human conscience works the way we think it does, it would just be a copy of you, and nobody would know the difference. Essentially you'd be dead, and a copy of you would roam the earth.
If there's more to a human "soul" than we know, then I could be wrong, but as it stands that's what would happen most likely.[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as a soul
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29207202]Except the original you, who has ceased to exist. Teleportation is essentially creating a perfect copy and shooting the original.[/QUOTE]
Here's the thing:
If you were cloned (DNA, memories, everything) then your copy would be exactly the same as you in that split moment of the clone's creation, ie you'd be the same person. Howver, a split moment after that you'd be different from each other. Since you wouldn't be able to be in the exact same place at the exact same time, you would experience life differently from your clone. You'd be able the scientifically test the differences between you, even if the technology to distinguish such small alterations might not exist yet. Example, if your clone tripped over and got a bruish while you didn't.
However, if you clone yourself and then destroy the original at exactly the same time then only one version of you has ever existed and that version is simply [i]you[/i]. You would not be able to test the differences between the original and the clone and thus you are the same person. After that moment, yes you would be different from what your original was but that is like saying you are different from when you were several years younger. You are different because you are in a different place and time, have experienced more and changed from and responded to those experiences. The idea that you are different because you possess different souls cannot be proven in both the sense that souls exist or that you and your clone possess different souls.
[QUOTE=Jager_57;29207535]Theoretically, it is possible that you die when you go to sleep, but I do not hold this view. As long as the chemical reactions in the brain are still going, it's probably in stasis.[/QUOTE]
If you're using the term "die" loosely, maybe. It sounds redundant, but if you're alive, you aren't dead.
[QUOTE=Jager_57;29207425]I see that now, Agreed. In your experiment the consciousness could possibly stay in the same place.
You failed to address where it goes when there is no clone however.[/QUOTE]
But that's why I made the point. You have two "different" consciousnesses that are physically indistinguishable when you sort of sew them together in time. So consciousnesses are interchangeable in that way. So you just teleport someone. The "original" is destroyed, and the "teleported copy" is created somewhere else. The original consciousness disappears maybe kind of debatably, but now you have a consciousness that is precisely the same as the old one, with all of its memories and etc. in a new place. How is it at all distinguishable from the old one?
Thinking about this has informed how I think about consciousness. I think all of the things I "see" and "feel" are just manifestations of my body, and my consciousness is what we call that. I don't have any real control over it and I'm not really experiencing anything. I don't blame you for disagreeing with me. I don't think I can accurately put into words my thoughts on the issue.
After thinking about this for a while, my approach has become to ignore consciousness as coincidental, and just consider the physical systems instead.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29207438]Nobody else, including the clone, will notice a difference, and neither will the old you, because your existence ended the moment the teleporter completely obliterated you.[/QUOTE]
No one will notice a difference because there isn't one.
[QUOTE=jaykray;29207566]If you're using the term "die" loosely, maybe. It sounds redundant, but if you're alive, you aren't dead.[/QUOTE]
I mean death from the standpoint of your consciousness. I suppose there isn't a word for that.
Ok Well, Guy's their is a manga called gantz, and the plot is that these 2 kids die in a train wreck and they are brought back in a room with a black ball. Now, the black ball sends the people in the room to a mission to kill aliens and they get points for each alien kill and they have to survive and such. Now the interesting thing is that when someone is mortally wounded and they complete the mission the gantz ball destroys the original copy and creates a new one much like a fax machine, and if you get enough points you can revive someone and bring them back to life because their DNA is stored in the gantz ball.
[QUOTE=Jager_57;29207611]I mean death from the standpoint of your consciousness. I suppose there isn't a word for that.[/QUOTE]
unconsciousness?
[editline]16th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=jellal;29207622]Ok Well, Guy's their is a manga called gantz, and the plot is that these 2 kids die in a train wreck and they are brought back in a room with a black ball. Now, the black ball sends the people in the room to a mission to kill aliens and they get points for each alien kill and they have to survive and such. Now the interesting thing is that when someone is mortally wounded and they complete the mission the gantz ball destroys the original copy and creates a new one much like a fax machine, and if you get enough points you can revive someone and bring them back to life because their DNA is stored in the gantz ball.[/QUOTE]
That's relevant.
I need to go to sleep now but I know this will have hundreds of interesting posts by tomorrow. Tough decision time.
[QUOTE=jaykray;29207626]unconsciousness?
[editline]16th April 2011[/editline]
That's relevant.[/QUOTE]
Well, I mean we are talking about the human fax machine stuff and I thought it had a unique outlook on it.
Likely going to be several hundred year when they make a teleporter that can teleport large objects like humans without fucking them up. Great breakthrough and hope this advances even further.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29207592]
Thinking about this has informed how I think about consciousness. I think all of the things I "see" and "feel" are just manifestations of my body, and my consciousness is what we call that. I don't have any real control over it and I'm not really experiencing anything. I don't blame you for disagreeing with me. I don't think I can accurately put into words my thoughts on the issue.
After thinking about this for a while, my approach has become to ignore consciousness as coincidental, and just consider the physical systems instead. [/QUOTE]
I think I understand what you are getting at. Beyond this point I don't think that it can be argued much further.
I think that when we think too far into something, we can forget about the obvious. Logically, I should not actually exist, and yet I do beyond chemical reactions. You can disagree with that, but again I don't know how to argue it any further.
It's been fun debating the issue JohnnyMo1.
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;29207541]
However, if you clone yourself and then destroy the original at exactly the same time then only one version of you has ever existed and that version is simply [i]you[/i]. You would not be able to test the differences between the original and the clone and thus you are the same person. After that moment, yes you would be different from what your original was but that is like saying you are different from when you were several years younger. You are different because you are in a different place and time, have experienced more and changed from and responded to those experiences. The idea that you are different because you possess different souls cannot be proven in both the sense that souls exist or that you and your clone possess different souls.[/QUOTE]
But none of that even matters because you step into that teleporter, you die. A new you is created moments later, but they only think they're you because all your memories were perfectly copied. It doesn't matter if anyone can tell the difference because the teleporter completely and utterly destroyed you, and the original you forever ceases to exist. Anything other than your own perspective doesn't matter because you're the one who has to take the teleporter,
[QUOTE=DesumThePanda;29207717]Likely going to be several hundred year when they make a teleporter that can teleport large objects like humans without fucking them up. Great breakthrough and hope this advances even further.[/QUOTE]
More like eons.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29207857]But none of that even matters because you step into that teleporter, you die. A new you is created moments later, but they only think they're you because all your memories were perfectly copied. It doesn't matter if anyone can tell the difference because the teleporter completely and utterly destroyed you, and the original you forever ceases to exist. Anything other than your own perspective doesn't matter because you're the one who has to take the teleporter,[/QUOTE]
I don't understand what you mean by "none of it even matters." In my opinion, the issue of whether or not I'm the same or [i]I[/i] am still alive doesn't matter as long as I can do what I could do before and I believe that I am me, which is not very hard.
What do you mean by destroy anyway? Are you talking about being physically destroyed and then reconstructed somewhere else or spiritually destroyed where all the particles in your body are the same but it's been replaced by a different [i]soul[/i]. The former can prove you are very different at point of creation. The latter can't.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;29202974]It said destroying and recreating, i think that would kill you and rebirth you as a mindless braindead hunk of flesh.[/QUOTE]
In short, nothing about Vasili will have changed. :v:
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;29208025]I don't understand what you mean by "none of it even matters." In my opinion, the issue of whether or not I'm the same or [i]I[/i] am still alive doesn't matter as long as I can do what I could do before and I believe that I am me, which is not very hard.
[/QUOTE]
What if a perfect duplicate of you were created, and you were immediate killed or put into some remote prison? And by destroy, I mean the former, which is how most ideas for teleportation work.
[quote]Unfortunately it's not a real feline, but a hypothetical experiment [B]first carried out[/B] in the 1935.[/quote]
And here I was thinking it was just a thought experiment.
Poor cat.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29208136]What if a perfect duplicate of you were created, and you were immediate killed or put into some remote prison? And by destroy, I mean the former, which is how most ideas for teleportation work.[/QUOTE]
Lots to consider here. Firstly, was I aware that this would happen or did all happen without my consent; perhaps without my knowledge at all? This would affect how my clone would feel.
For the original;
First scenario - The original would cease to exist/be dead. Can't feel anything when dead. My clone would either be oblivious or not particularly care either way.
Second scenario - The original would be pissed and I wouldn't consciously choose this. Otherwise, it would be no different if I had been kidnapped and locked away. The fact that there's a clone of me walking around is irrelevant.
[quote]'Schrodinger's cat'[/quote]
What cat?
its magic
[QUOTE=MeMassiveFag;29203099]It's as if no one read the article.[/QUOTE]
That's why you have the title something we all like and you get rated hearts/funnies/agrees about 30 seconds after the thread is made.
[editline]16th April 2011[/editline]
And winrars.
Go into the teleporter, it creates a clone of you with your memories somewhere. You step out, someone points a gun on you and kills you. You are now dead, the other "you" isn't dead, and thinks he "teleported". But you didn't go anywhere, you died.
If we can teleport light already then that's fucking amazing, I didn't realize that much progress had been made
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29205076]A clone of you is created somewhere in the universe and at the instant that happens, [B]you and it[/B] both switch places via teleportation. Which do you control?[/QUOTE]
making this distinction invalidates the concept
it should be "you and you switch places"
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