This shit again? Fast Food workers on strike for higher wage. (15$/hour)
221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;45516129]I personally love the sentiment that even though almost everybody complains about the "1%" and "wealth inequality" these days, people at the poverty threshold will gladly undercut other peoples efforts to get a cost of living adjustment out of pure malevolent spite.[/QUOTE]
People complain about 1% because they're jealous their 15$/h does not match.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45515575]You forgot healthcare costs. Which are exorbitant. It's actually illegal now to not have health insurance, and if you don't have it and you go to the ER.. or an urgicare.. or anywhere really, you're going to pay out of the ass. You can probably get away with it for a little while, but even the healthiest individuals get sick every now and then.
You also forgot car maintenance costs, with a car costing 4k$, you're probably damned to pay for maintenance throughout the year, things like oil changes, new tires, wipers, things like that, can be put off for a while, but on a budget that strict, it's going to be very difficult to actually eat those costs. 1.5K extra a year equates to 125$ to spare monthly, which isn't much wiggle room for actual unexpected expenses to pop up.
Over all, you have no wiggle room for anything truly unexpected, as you didn't build any maintenance costs into the budget, your car will need upkeep, as will the house, as will your various appliances. You're fine until something breaks, or someone gets sick, then you're fucked; just like the rest of the people who are stuck at minimum wage.[/QUOTE]
Healthcare is expensive, and if something happens you get it financed. That's what happens. My girlfriend is without healthcare, and for the last four years her yearly expenses for healthcare have been around $300 a year, that's dentist, optomitrist and general checkup. And yes, you will have some maintenance costs, but you can still afford your average maintenance on that budget. Anyways that's only 40 hours a week, no overtime, work some overtime and you can increase your cushion. It's tough just starting out, there is no way around it, but that budget I listed was buying your own home, and a car in the same year, and it was still workable. It gets easier as time goes on, and as your wage increases from experience.
Around here I see guys my age who are broke and working minimum wage and most of the time they are driving a 9mpg V8 pickup, wasting money on stupid things like rent to own televisions and takeout every day, no wonder they are not making it. There are plenty of people who work minimum wage and are able to succeed and elevate their status.
The left is strong in this thread.
[QUOTE=Korova;45515259]So if you were a programmer making $17 an hour, you'd be fine only making $2 above minimum wage for a job that requires education? Bullshit. You're living in a fantasy world. If you feel otherwise, I'm sorry you don't value your potential as much as many of us do. Just don't expect us to go down with you.[/QUOTE]
why do you deserve to have a higher paid wage? Because you went to school? What about that makes your profession something deserving of a higher wage?
Do other people deserve less than you for not having the same opportunities as you? Do other people deserve to not have a life?
[QUOTE=nemmises5;45516215]I work my ass off in the oil and gas industry sticking myself in some of the most dangerous jobs in the field, and I only get 14$ an hour. I'll be damned if some burger flipper makes more than I do. for something a helluva lot less dangerous.[/QUOTE]
Did you know crane operators make 250k a year?
[QUOTE=proch;45516228]The left is strong in this thread.[/QUOTE]
I don't think wanting to raise wages from criminal levels to slightly less criminal wages should need a political alignment.
I think that regardless of what you think of taxes or immigrants or homosexuals, you should still be entitled to the opinion of wanting people to be able to earn enough to live a sustainable life. It should be a goal both democrats and republicans agree on.
[QUOTE=nemmises5;45516215]I work my ass off in the oil and gas industry sticking myself in some of the most dangerous jobs in the field, and I only get 14$ an hour. I'll be damned if some burger flipper makes more than I do. for something a helluva lot less dangerous.[/QUOTE]
You'll be making the same money as them because your wages will be raised as well genius, maybe if you went to burger flipping school you'd know that and be able to get a decent job.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;45516245]Did you know crane operators make 250k a year?[/QUOTE]
Average crane operator salary is $43,663 a year, with very experienced operators in high demand locations making on average on the very high end at $113,000 a year. Those 14 operators in NYC making crazy money isn't indicative of the average salary in the industry.
I hope this passes so all the idiots who are striking get fired when the fast food places cant afford keep so many people on the clock.
[QUOTE=dark soul;45516334]I hope this passes so all the idiots who are striking get fired when the fast food places cant afford keep so many people on the clock.[/QUOTE]
It's possible some of the small chains won't be able to manage, I don't know enough about economics to speculate on them, but do you really think McDonalds or Burger King aren't raking in enough cash to afford a wage boost?
[QUOTE=nemmises5;45516215]I work my ass off in the oil and gas industry sticking myself in some of the most dangerous jobs in the field, and I only get 14$ an hour. I'll be damned if some burger flipper makes more than I do. for something a helluva lot less dangerous.[/QUOTE]
If minimum wage were $15 an hour, you'd make $15 an hour too.
[QUOTE=Megafan;45516428]If minimum wage were $15 an hour, you'd make $15 an hour too.[/QUOTE]
More, considered they're making almost double minimum wage right now.
[QUOTE=Grimhound;45515344]A serious issue with society is that there just aren't jobs for people. And most people are able to be replaced with machines. And this problem will only get worse. Even now, high-level programmers are being rendered redundant by things that do their jobs better than they can. And there are many different ideas for how to approach this, but many of them are shitty.
Do you outlaw technology and halt progress just so people can have jobs and you can uphold the status quo? Do you pad things out by creating things like the TSA that are, in essence, veiled jobs programs for the uneducated? Do you just let natural selection weed people out and have people fighting for the shittiest jobs imaginable? Or do you change everything in your society to move things to a new standard? And if so what and how?[/QUOTE]
Would it be more difficult for businesses to be introduced if wages were increased? I'm imagining that the small businesses would cut corners in order to compete. It happened with the animation industry.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;45516459]Would it be more difficult for businesses to be introduced if wages were increased? I'm imagining that the small businesses would cut corners in order to compete. It happened with the animation industry.[/QUOTE]
My best friend's an animator at Blur, and he constantly talks about how more and more animation contracts are going overseas to be animated in India or China for a fraction of the price. Like Disney's Planes.
[QUOTE=sltungle;45513376]Before I started working in a grocery store I had a fairly similar outlook; it seemed to me like the people who worked in places like retail or fast food were usually your high school drop out types and general 'failures' of society. To be fair, a portion of them [I]are[/I], but having worked in that area for two and a half years now do you know what I've noticed? For the vast majority of people it's merely a temporary thing; it's somewhere that they work during a transitional period in their life. A fair chunk of my coworkers, like myself, are students (some of them university students like me, some high school students). A fair portion of those who remain are parents who want to be able to spend time with their children during the day and so work in a grocery store where the normal shift is 8 pm - midnight, or who are working a second job for some extra cash.
Very few of the people who work this kind of work are doing so because it's all they can do, it just happens to be all they can do at that point in their life.[/QUOTE]
See, I've worked in a grocery store for close to the same period of time and I can say that my experience is somewhat similar. While a few of my coworkers are indeed dropouts or people who didn't go to college, and we have a regular rotating number of students working for the summer, the vast majority of my coworkers are:
-16-30 years old
-going to high school or college
-have been working this job for more than 1.5 years
-are likely to continue working this job for at least 1.5 years more
I'd say close to a 1/3 have been working at the store for more than 4 years, most of them far longer than that and some for 14. Some of these people are single parents with no college education in their 40s and 50s, which some people would lead you to believe accounts for deserving to live in poverty because "back in the day when being a housewife was a perfectly viable expectation for many women, you should have known that the job market when you are 50 is going to revolve around your ability to get a degree. Also, fuck you for being poor, you deserve it." I think you're right in the "it's all they can do in life right now" because that's true.
To those who think that raising the minimum wage to 15$ is ridiculous: Are these jobs not valuable, though? Are they not necessary for our lives? These jobs can be and often are incredibly straining, but simply because almost anyone can do them does that entitle everyone who must or does work them to live below the poverty line? We know that our economy can support 15$/hr, and in fact, historically, it has. If the minimum wage was adjusted for inflation at the same rate that the value of the dollar changed, then the minimum wage would be 15$/hr. If it kept pace with increased cost of living, on average, it would be 21$/hr. And we could support that, too. Just because we're accommodated to shit wages doesn't mean it's right, and just because a job is low-skill doesn't make it valueless nor easy. Historically the hardest jobs have been the lowest paid, but because of labor action these jobs have become well-paying. But retail jobs, which have come about in the era after organized labor in the United States and which now is one of the largest, if not the largest, sector of our workforce, missed out on these opportunities.
So, in short, if you oppose the 15$/hr minimum wage you're a rich fucking prick or divorced from reality who probably hasn't had to work a shit job in your life. If you work full time, you should have a living wage, end of story.
[editline]27th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;45516459]Would it be more difficult for businesses to be introduced if wages were increased? I'm imagining that the small businesses would cut corners in order to compete. It happened with the animation industry.[/QUOTE]
We always have to ask this question whenever we increase the universal standard of living in the US.
"But if we make child labor illegal, won't businesses that rely on child labor have to cut corners or go under?"
"But if we set health and safety standards, won't that extra cost put small businesses under?"
"But if we start making companies provide benefits, wouldn't that...."
"But if we allow unions, won't that...."
"But if we increase the wage to $4.15..."
"But if..."
The answer is always no. The economy always adjusts. Almost universally it gets better. The job market molds itself around the changes.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45516275]What makes you special? Why should a "burger flipper" get paid less? Why shouldn't you GET PAID MORE (if your job is so dangerous), and the burger flippers get paid more as well?[/QUOTE]
Why so aggressive? He has a better job. I'm sure he is a skilled tradesman. That's why. Plus he works in the petroleum industry... something that someone in fast food doesn't possess the skills to do. I don't know about you, but I like living in a society where there are "haves" and "have nots". That's what makes America so appealing. You can make it if you bust your ass. I started out in fast food... now I work with networks at Comcast and live comfortably. Stop being so terrible.
[editline]27th July 2014[/editline]
He invested time and money into his skills and/or education. As did I. Respect that.
[QUOTE=Martele;45516743]Why so aggressive? He has a better job. I'm sure he is a skilled tradesman. That's why. Plus he works in the petroleum industry... something that someone in fast food doesn't possess the skills to do. I don't know about you, but I like living in a society where there are "haves" and "have nots". That's what makes America so appealing. You can make it if you bust your ass. I started out in fast food... now I work with networks at Comcast and live comfortably. Stop being so terrible.
[editline]27th July 2014[/editline]
He invested time and money into his skills and/or education. As did I. Respect that.[/QUOTE]
So did half my coworkers in the checkouts and so are half of them. I don't think you realize what the reality of the situation is in the lower classes. There are many college degrees working shit jobs. And besides, while your skill is more valuable in the job market, that doesn't mean that the skilless deserve poverty because they didn't pursue, didn't have the opportunity to pursue, or didn't have the ability to pursue a degree.
"You can make it if you bust your ass" is such a privileged thing to say because only idiots and privileged twits who take credit for the conditions beyond their control that lead to their success say it. There are many people who aren't ever going to be able to get out of their shit jobs, or their low skill jobs, but apparently depriving them of a decent existence is a good motivator.
Let's just keep the food out of the hands of the starving, it'll be a great motivator for them to do something more valuable for a company's profit margin!
[QUOTE=Atlascore;45516879]You're hilarious dude, working in an oil field is just hard work.. barely any skill involved, it's a very tiny step above "burger flipping".
P.S. Now I know why Comcast's such an awful company, it's got people like you working for it.[/QUOTE]
90 years ago they would be saying the same shit they're saying about the FF workers' demand to oil workers, miners, meat packers, teamsters, farmers, plumbers, and autoworkers.
[QUOTE=Martele;45516743]Why so aggressive? He has a better job. I'm sure he is a skilled tradesman. That's why. Plus he works in the petroleum industry... something that someone in fast food doesn't possess the skills to do. I don't know about you, but I like living in a society where there are "haves" and "have nots". That's what makes America so appealing. You can make it if you bust your ass. I started out in fast food... now I work with networks at Comcast and live comfortably. Stop being so terrible.
[editline]27th July 2014[/editline]
He invested time and money into his skills and/or education. As did I. Respect that.[/QUOTE]
You make it sound like it's a country of haves, and soon to haves, which is impossible.
A society needs lower class workers, it just does. Not everyone does get to move up. Why do those people in those positions deserve to live in such economically unstable situations?
[QUOTE=Ajacks;45515515]I just threw this together going off living in my own city. My girlfriend is a killer budgeter and we are frugal, eating out about once a month now, and only buying whole foods, not prepackaged frozen things. Our food budget a month a piece is about $150, and we're happy with that. We don't buy things like soda or junk food or liquor (besides a bottle of wine, and a single glass bottle of mexicoke a week each)
Here's a year budget that fits in minimum wage for a single person.
$4,000 for a car/truck that's reliable to get you to work with good mileage.
$600 a year in gas at 13 miles a day commuting/driving average, at $3.75 a gallon current price.
$2,580 for a down payment on a $14,000 home (my area has a dozen homes in that price right now) with a $50 a month mortgage, which comes out to $600 a year.
$710 annual electricity bill for average usage.
$420 annual water and sewage bill.
$510 annual homeowners insurance
$540 annual auto insurance.
$1800 annual food budget at $150 a month.
Total living expenses: $11,724, and you take home around $13,200 off of that $15,000 annual minimum wage income at 40 hours a week. That's $1500 to spare, and the next year will be even lower because you wont have that $4,000 auto purchase or the home down payment, so you'll have another $6580 freed up to put into your home or general budget if you kept frugal.
I understand that unexpected expenses come up, but if you're free of debt you can maintain a good life if you are very smart and frugal.[/QUOTE]
yep, just like my uncle who has a literal million dollar debt to the hospital. I don't think you understand how much rent/gas/food is going up everywhere. Fucking get over yourself if you think they shouldn't have a pay increase because you think you're worth more. If you honestly think you're worth more then I would LOVE to see you do any job that's extremely strenuous on you physically or mentally meanwhile you get some money that you see disappear as soon as it hits your bank account. Then when you ask for help, you're told to pick yourself up and advance your career.
My friend works as pizza delivery man for 4€ per hour which translates 5.4$ per hour.
I currently work for 10€ per hour as a developer which translates to 13.4$ per hour.
@ Slovenia, Europe, just for info.
I think sandwich artists in america are kind-of lucky.
[QUOTE=nemmises5;45516215]I work my ass off in the oil and gas industry sticking myself in some of the most dangerous jobs in the field, and I only get 14$ an hour. I'll be damned if some burger flipper makes more than I do. for something a helluva lot less dangerous.[/QUOTE]
do you not know what [i]minimum[/i] wage is
[editline]27th July 2014[/editline]
actually no you do not
[QUOTE=codemaster85;45517297]yep, just like my uncle who has a literal million dollar debt to the hospital. I don't think you understand how much rent/gas/food is going up everywhere. Fucking get over yourself if you think they shouldn't have a pay increase because you think you're worth more. If you honestly think you're worth more then I would LOVE to see you do any job that's extremely strenuous on you physically or mentally meanwhile you get some money that you see disappear as soon as it hits your bank account. Then when you ask for help, you're told to pick yourself up and advance your career.[/QUOTE]
*tips fedora* m'nimum wage doesn't need to be raised, your uncle just needs to pull himself up by his bootstraps
ajacks post is missing things like clothing, and getting a house for $14k isn't going to happen in 98% of places, especially in a city where most of these protests are happening
[QUOTE=Fourier;45517298]My friend works as pizza delivery man for 4€ per hour which translates 5.4$ per hour.
I currently work for 10€ per hour as a developer which translates to 13.4$ per hour.
@ Slovenia, Europe, just for info.
I think sandwich artists in america are kind-of lucky.[/QUOTE]
Not only is the cost of living cheaper in solvania, the euro now has more worth than the US dollar. so your delivery man makes $7.20~ an hour which is $7.25.
snip
[QUOTE=nemmises5;45516215]I work my ass off in the oil and gas industry sticking myself in some of the most dangerous jobs in the field, and I only get 14$ an hour. I'll be damned if some burger flipper makes more than I do. for something a helluva lot less dangerous.[/QUOTE]
Form a union and demand raises
Stop shitting on these fast food workers who are actually risking their jobs to get something done
[QUOTE=Grimhound;45515344]A serious issue with society is that there just aren't jobs for people. And most people are able to be replaced with machines. And this problem will only get worse. Even now, high-level programmers are being rendered redundant by things that do their jobs better than they can. And there are many different ideas for how to approach this, but many of them are shitty.
Do you outlaw technology and halt progress just so people can have jobs and you can uphold the status quo? Do you pad things out by creating things like the TSA that are, in essence, veiled jobs programs for the uneducated? Do you just let natural selection weed people out and have people fighting for the shittiest jobs imaginable? Or do you change everything in your society to move things to a new standard? And if so what and how?[/QUOTE]
The answer isn't to outlaw technology or create fake jobs.
The answer is a basic income system. Where people get a living wage just for being a citizen. A person shouldn't have to fall into poverty just because there literally isn't a job for them to get.
[QUOTE=bdd458;45512259][B][I][U]It's a negotiation tactic.[/U][/I][/B]
You ask for more than you actually want, so that way when those you are asking to increase your wage say "No, how about X amount of dollars instead", that X amount is what you really want.[/QUOTE]
But because they flip burgers they're all genuinely retarded and actually do want $15
[QUOTE=proch;45513045]Why is that something bad.
If someone has a harder or more important job there's nothing wrong with wanting to make more than someone with a easier or less important job.
That's like, logic.[/QUOTE]
how about 'we're both being paid jack shit'?
[QUOTE=Korova;45515259]So if you were a programmer making $17 an hour, you'd be fine only making $2 above minimum wage for a job that requires education? Bullshit. You're living in a fantasy world. If you feel otherwise, I'm sorry you don't value your potential as much as many of us do. Just don't expect us to go down with you.[/QUOTE]
I predict that this will make quite a few people on here angry but programming is an easier job than food service/retail. You can't browse reddit for half your workday when you work at McDonalds, you can't even sit.
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