• This shit again? Fast Food workers on strike for higher wage. (15$/hour)
    221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=bdd458;45512259][B][I][U]It's a negotiation tactic.[/U][/I][/B] [/QUOTE] I keep seeing people say this, but never read it in any news article. Where exactly are you inferring this is just a negotiation tactic and not them actually asking for $15/h?
[QUOTE=Midas22;45517565]But because they flip burgers they're all genuinely retarded and actually do want $15[/QUOTE] By your logic, that makes you a burger flipper then. Congrats.
[QUOTE=nemmises5;45516215]I work my ass off in the oil and gas industry sticking myself in some of the most dangerous jobs in the field, and I only get 14$ an hour.[/QUOTE] You are getting absolutely shat on while your employer laughs at you. You should be out there demanding higher wages as well. Working hard for little money is honourable in the way that paying sticker price for a new car is honourable.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45517813]I predict that this will make quite a few people on here angry but programming is an easier job than food service/retail. You can't browse reddit for half your workday when you work at McDonalds, you can't even sit.[/QUOTE] A lot of the work is more mentally taxing, and requires relatively good problem solving skills. But I'll be the first to admit it's not hard work for a majority of the time. When you've got no deadlines on the horizon, and you get bored, you can just sit your ass back in your chair, play with shit on your desk, browse the web, and get away with it because "it's compiling boss".
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45517818]I keep seeing people say this, but never read it in any news article. Where exactly are you inferring this is just a negotiation tactic and not them actually asking for $15/h?[/QUOTE] One) This is a widely used negotiation tactic Two) If the organizers of these things were to come out and say "Oh yeah, we don't really want 15 dollars", do you think that's going to pan out well for them? It rests on the other party not truly knowing what they want. I learned this shit when we talked about unions in my 9th Grade World History Class.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;45515515]I just threw this together going off living in my own city. My girlfriend is a killer budgeter and we are frugal, eating out about once a month now, and only buying whole foods, not prepackaged frozen things. Our food budget a month a piece is about $150, and we're happy with that. We don't buy things like soda or junk food or liquor (besides a bottle of wine, and a single glass bottle of mexicoke a week each) Here's a year budget that fits in minimum wage for a single person. $4,000 for a car/truck that's reliable to get you to work with good mileage. $600 a year in gas at 13 miles a day commuting/driving average, at $3.75 a gallon current price. $2,580 for a down payment on a $14,000 home (my area has a dozen homes in that price right now) with a $50 a month mortgage, which comes out to $600 a year. $710 annual electricity bill for average usage. $420 annual water and sewage bill. $510 annual homeowners insurance $540 annual auto insurance. $1800 annual food budget at $150 a month. Total living expenses: $11,724, and you take home around $13,200 off of that $15,000 annual minimum wage income at 40 hours a week. That's $1500 to spare, and the next year will be even lower because you wont have that $4,000 auto purchase or the home down payment, so you'll have another $6580 freed up to put into your home or general budget if you kept frugal. I understand that unexpected expenses come up, but if you're free of debt you can maintain a good life if you are very smart and frugal.[/QUOTE] Man I'd love to live where you live, unfortunately, most of America is nowhere near that cheap to live in.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45512341]You get paid $15/h for flipping burgers in Australia I got paid $15/h for delivering pizza's[/QUOTE] And how much does the new GTA cost in Australia? C'mon, it's called an exchange rate.
[QUOTE=darunner;45518591]And how much does the new GTA cost in Australia? C'mon, it's called an exchange rate.[/QUOTE] it's still cheaper in hours worked over here lets say gta is 60 dollars and over there its 100(usd converted, 60 in austrailian dollars) we would need to work about 8-[B]9[/B] hours to get gta whilest they would still only have to work about 6 and a half at minimum wage and an hour makes a huge difference if you compare work weeks which lets say each is about 40 hours a week they are making almost an entire work-day's worth more of money than us
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45515379]Rather than say "i'm a programmer, I deserve MUCH more money than the unskilled", why not ask "why do the unskilled deserve so much less money". The answer is they don't. They still fulfill a vital role in the economy, otherwise the jobs wouldn't exist in the first place. Remember, without those "burger flippers", there wouldn't be as many truck drivers, nor would there be as many beef farmers, nor would there be as many support elements that support all of those industries. There would be more people who are running around jobless, all because burger flippers are "less important". It's foolish to think that your education makes you more important, in reality it only makes you different. Your mentality is the reason in the early 1900's people worked long hours in dangerous environments with barely any pay, and when they wanted a pay raise they were reminded that they were "replaceable".[/QUOTE]that was also the time unions came into play I forget which date (late 1800's/early 1900's) that at least started the idea of union and workers rights was when a building catch on fire and almost everone died (at least 80% or more did die.) because really fire escapes coasted to much. in New York City.
[QUOTE=rewkasu;45513029]lol they are like "We didn't take school seriously and ignored collage but we still want high wages for flipping burgers".[/QUOTE] Or more like: "I got a degree and still no one hires me so I'm having to flip burgers" Education shouldn't be the key to living well. Especially when it costs a lifetime of debt.
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;45518638]it's still cheaper in hours worked over here lets say gta is 60 dollars and over there its 100(usd converted, 60 in austrailian dollars) we would need to work about 8-[b]9[/b] hours to get gta 4 whilest they would still only have to work about 6 and a half at minimum wage and an hour makes a huge difference if you compare work weeks which lets say each is about 40 hours a week they are making almost an entire work-day's worth more of money than us[/QUOTE] although in this case just wate for a sail.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;45515515]I just threw this together going off living in my own city. My girlfriend is a killer budgeter and we are frugal, eating out about once a month now, and only buying whole foods, not prepackaged frozen things. Our food budget a month a piece is about $150, and we're happy with that. We don't buy things like soda or junk food or liquor (besides a bottle of wine, and a single glass bottle of mexicoke a week each) Here's a year budget that fits in minimum wage for a single person. $4,000 for a car/truck that's reliable to get you to work with good mileage. $600 a year in gas at 13 miles a day commuting/driving average, at $3.75 a gallon current price. $2,580 for a down payment on a $14,000 home (my area has a dozen homes in that price right now) with a $50 a month mortgage, which comes out to $600 a year. $710 annual electricity bill for average usage. $420 annual water and sewage bill. $510 annual homeowners insurance $540 annual auto insurance. $1800 annual food budget at $150 a month. Total living expenses: $11,724, and you take home around $13,200 off of that $15,000 annual minimum wage income at 40 hours a week. That's $1500 to spare, and the next year will be even lower because you wont have that $4,000 auto purchase or the home down payment, so you'll have another $6580 freed up to put into your home or general budget if you kept frugal. I understand that unexpected expenses come up, but if you're free of debt you can maintain a good life if you are very smart and frugal.[/QUOTE] Let me compare with my location. $4,000 for a [del]car/truck that's reliable to get you to work with good mileage[/del] ten year old used car in fair shape with bad mileage. I know this one for a fact because I'm seeking out a vehicle now. [del]$600 a year in gas[/del] $2000 a year at [del]13[/del] 18 miles a day commuting/driving average, at $3.75 a gallon current price. This is with a vehicle with bad gas mileage that's affordable on a $3500 budget. [del]$2,580 for a down payment on a $14,000 home (my area has a dozen homes in that price right now) with a $50 a month mortgage, which comes out to $600 a year.[/del] This is just a fantasy holy shit. What fucking country do you live in? $14,000 for a home would hardly even get you a shack in the country here. There are fucking barns without electricity that are more expensive than that. While I'll say where I'm living now does have higher costs, back home, just outside of literally one of the economically shittiest areas in the country, $14,000 is still a pipe dream for a decent place. And I've never had $2,500 all at once in my life on $8.25 an hour or less at full time. You're full of shit. $710 annual electricity bill for average usage. $420 annual water and sewage bill. This is only really the case here because I live next to the Great Lakes. I know down south it's less so and in the southwest it's ridiculously more expensive. [del]$510 annual homeowners insurance[/del] Even with the lowest average ho insurance rate, around 60$/month, that still adds up to be more than this. [del]$540 annual auto insurance.[/del] My state has an average of $2500 annual. $1800 annual food budget at $150 a month. While I can agree with this becuase I spend less than this per month on food: $100 a month, and that breaks down to a bowl of cereal every morning, 3 litres of soda per week, coffee, 1 Gatorade a day, 1 bagel a day, and occasionally sandwich fixings, protein drink, milk, creamer, and some faux chicken frozen stuff, there's no way that a peron with a family or who is eating healthily can live off of 150$ a week. I work at a grocery store, food prices are going up and a family of four spends close to 300$/week at minimum. Further, while the $15,000 isn't a bad estimate (if you consider full time to be 40 hours and hours aren't variable as they often are in min wage jobs) you're still not considering the 5-20% that uncle sam is going to take out of your paycheck each week. So basically, your location is pretty fucking low cost of living or you're full of shit.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45515379]Rather than say "i'm a programmer, I deserve MUCH more money than the unskilled", why not ask "why do the unskilled deserve so much less money". The answer is they don't. They still fulfill a vital role in the economy, otherwise the jobs wouldn't exist in the first place. Remember, without those "burger flippers", there wouldn't be as many truck drivers, nor would there be as many beef farmers, nor would there be as many support elements that support all of those industries. There would be more people who are running around jobless, all because burger flippers are "less important". It's foolish to think that your education makes you more important, in reality it only makes you different. Your mentality is the reason in the early 1900's people worked long hours in dangerous environments with barely any pay, and when they wanted a pay raise they were reminded that they were "replaceable".[/QUOTE] But these people are replaceable by *insert teenager here*. Why should I get paid what a 16 year old kid still living with his parents? He has the convenience of not depending on that money. It's pocket money to him. My pay goes towards my house payment, utilities and feeding ourselves. I am a skilled worker by profession and they are not. I live a semi-luxurious lifestyle and if this passes, my lifestyle will be significantly cut back due to inflation. Just to exaggerate my point, what's the point of making $100 if every John, Joe and Jane working at McDonalds is getting $50-60 an hour at the local McDonalds? Then from the point of view as a business, how am I going to stay competitive in the market when I'm paying $15.00 minimum to every single one of my employees? I've seen programmers make $15-$20 hourly. Now we're going to be paying the janitors $15 and the programmers will be complacent with that? Businesses can't afford that. Prices are going to be raised quite significantly. In a perfect world, everyone would live in a million dollar mansion and never have to worry about bills and social class structures but that isn't the world we live in. It's them or me and I pick me every time.
[QUOTE=bdd458;45518092]One) This is a widely used negotiation tactic Two) If the organizers of these things were to come out and say "Oh yeah, we don't really want 15 dollars", do you think that's going to pan out well for them? It rests on the other party not truly knowing what they want. I learned this shit when we talked about unions in my 9th Grade World History Class.[/QUOTE] So just accept it without any evidence. No thanks.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45519021]So just accept it without any evidence. No thanks.[/QUOTE] How do you not know what fucking haggling is?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45519096]Why are you any better than that kid? How do you know his situation? Maybe he doesn't need the money, or maybe it's the only income keeping the family afloat. Do you think that your age makes you better? Because no-one really cares how old you are, or your family situation, only if you're skilled; or unskilled. Remember, anyone who's "unskilled" (you don't have to go to school, your job can be done by anyone off the street after a day or two of training) is easily replaced by *insert teenager here* So, why should you get paid the same as a 16 year old? Because you're both unskilled, you have the unfortunate issue of being "replaceable". Which is why we should be pushing for a higher minimum wage, because you don't really know what kind of person is unskilled, and you don't know their situation, but they should be able to make enough money to not ask themselves the question: food, or rent?[/QUOTE] I'm not formally educated. I was self-taught but I still have more value to the company than the guy mopping the floors. The amount I'm paid, the benefits I receive and the structure of the interviewing process emphasizes this. Also in this industry, age comes with experience and that is valuable (up to a point, no one wants a dinosaur that wrote programs for MS DOS back in the 80s). The fact that I have the ability to negotiate my contract, salary and benefits and all without being laughed out of the room already puts me at a higher social class than the sixteen year old working at McDonalds and the waitress at Red Robin. Yeah, it's a dickish thing to say but I'm not going to pretend it's not true.
[QUOTE=Korova;45519151]I'm not formally educated. I was self-taught but I still have more value to the company than the guy mopping the floors. Also in this industry, age comes with experience and that is valuable (up to a point, no one wants a dinosaur that wrote programs for MS DOS back in the 80s). The fact that I have the ability to negotiate my contract, salary and benefits and all without being laughed out of the room already puts me at a higher social class than the sixteen year old working at McDonalds and the waitress at Red Robin. Yeah, it's a dickish thing to say but I'm not going to pretend it's not true.[/QUOTE] The point is that, even if you ARE at a higher social class (however that's judged), that doesn't mean the person in the lower class deserves to be unable to support themselves and survive, just because you or someone else thinks their job is unimportant. Until the service industry is a thing of the past (something I don't see happening anytime soon), these people are STILL working 40+ hours a week and, in many cases, they're STILL barely scraping by, if they can afford to live on their own at all. And that's not even taking into consideration people who have families. Remember, it's not just 16 year olds taking these jobs.
[QUOTE=Korova;45519151]I'm not formally educated. I was self-taught but I still have more value to the company than the guy mopping the floors. Also in this industry, age comes with experience and that is valuable (up to a point, no one wants a dinosaur that wrote programs for MS DOS back in the 80s). The fact that I have the ability to negotiate my contract, salary and benefits and all without being laughed out of the room already puts me at a higher social class than the sixteen year old working at McDonalds and the waitress at Red Robin. Yeah, it's a dickish thing to say but I'm not going to pretend it's not true.[/QUOTE] According to your profile you're only 20 years old. Talk about age and experience when you're 40.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45519186]And it's true because people constantly propagate the idea that "i'm better than them". Are you aware of how many OTHER industries require the "fast food" industry in order to stay afloat? That 16 year old is doing more to keep others employed than people like to think about, and they deserve a living wage just like everyone else. It's a fucking joke to think that you can get by on 7.50$ an hour, and no amount of "oh pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is going to fix that.[/QUOTE] I don't but I also accept the reality that some people are going to make $9 an hour and some are going to make $30. Is it so wrong to say that if these minimum wage numbers go up, I want my salary that was based on how much more I deserve ABOVE minimum wage to go up too?
[QUOTE=Korova;45519213]I don't but I also accept the reality that some people are going to make $9 an hour and some are going to make $30. Is it so wrong to say that if these minimum wage numbers go up, I want my salary that was based on how much more I deserve ABOVE minimum wage to go up too?[/QUOTE] If you read the thread or even had a basic understanding of how the economy works, you probably would have realized that that's exactly what happens whenever minimum wage is raised.
[QUOTE=Paramud;45519185]According to your profile you're only 20 years old. Talk about age and experience when you're 40.[/QUOTE] Self-taught programming at the age of ten, graduated at fifteen, working ever since. I have one hell of a resume and that's the exception to the rule that is few and very far between. Zing though, right? You totally got me.
[QUOTE=rewkasu;45513029]lol they are like "We didn't take school seriously and ignored collage but we still want high wages for flipping burgers".[/QUOTE] 15 per hour is not a high wage though.
No ones saying your salary wouldn't change or shouldn't change. Just that those people deserve living wages too because "BOOTSTRAPS BOOTSTRAPS BOOTSTRAPS" doesn't usually work
[QUOTE=Paramud;45519223]If you read the thread or even had a basic understanding of how the economy works, you probably would have realized that that's exactly what happens whenever minimum wage is raised.[/QUOTE] And that's what I said. I was going to renegotiate my contract if this passed and people jumped up my ass about saying that.
[QUOTE=Korova;45519229]Self-taught programming at the age of ten, graduated at fifteen, working ever since. I have one hell of a resume and that's the exception to the rule that is few and very far between. Zing though, right? You totally got me.[/QUOTE] You don't have shit, you're just words on my computer screen.
[QUOTE=Korova;45519229]Self-taught programming at the age of ten, graduated at fifteen, working ever since. I have one hell of a resume and that's the exception to the rule that is few and very far between. Zing though, right? You totally got me.[/QUOTE] The fact that you ARE the exception to the rule is telling in and of itself. You should be proud you're as successful as you are because you've worked hard for it. That said, people less fortunate, and even those less dedicated than yourself still deserve a wage that allows them to survive by working ~40 hours a week. This is just a personal example, but even if I cut my phone bill to the minimum and eliminated all extraneous spending, I still need to be making at LEAST $13/hr to afford to [B]split[/B] rent with someone, much less rent an apartment/house on my own. After years in retail, both as a means to help pay for college and to use as a hold-over job until I find something better, I'm still making less than $12. I feel like I should be able to earn enough to survive on my own and work until I can find a better opportunity, but right now I still don't feel like I'm even close.
I work for 21 an hour in fast food. I ain't complaining. [sp]before you all throw a hissy fit australias cost of living is high as fuck[/sp]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45519256]It's fine that people make more money than others; but you should expect to make a living wage, regardless of what job you work. Yes a doctor is going to make more than a "burger flipper". Yes a skilled worker is going to make more than an unskilled worker. That's not the point; the point is that, no matter what job you're doing, you deserve to be able to survive on the money you're making. And at this point, at "minimum" wage, you simply cant.[/QUOTE] And you think that if everyone's wages increase as a response to this $15 figure that the dollar just won't become inflated and a $300 apartment today will cost around $575 tomorrow? I mean it has been accepted that this will readjust everything we know about prices for things in the United States. Look at Australia, they have a fifteen dollar minimum wage, sounds like a lot but everything is significantly more expensive. What good is raising $15 going to do? From a business owner's standpoint, it'll make things a hell of a lot harder to start up if you're paying a janitor what you'd pay a programmer right now.
[QUOTE=Korova;45519282]And you think that if everyone's wages increase as a response to this $15 figure that the dollar just won't become inflated and a $300 apartment today will cost around $575 tomorrow? I mean it has been accepted that this will readjust everything we know about prices for things in the United States. Look at Australia, they have a fifteen dollar minimum wage, sounds like a lot but everything is significantly more expensive. What good is raising $15 going to do? From a business owner's standpoint, it'll make things a hell of a lot harder to start up if you're paying a janitor what you'd pay a programmer right now.[/QUOTE] As it's been said in this thread and countless threads before, that's not how inflation works. Prices would MAYBE go up a few cents, and minimum wage has fallen so far behind the rate of inflation it's laughable.
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;45519278]I work for 21 an hour in fast food. I ain't complaining. [sp]before you all throw a hissy fit australias cost of living is high as fuck[/sp][/QUOTE] Honestly, I'd like you to answer this because I have friends in Australia making the minimum and they're living pretty comparable to how they'd live on minimum wage here. How far does your $21/hour go? Of course your quality of living is going to be better compared to the U.S. due to universal health care, your government doesn't let corporations rape the people despite going against the majority's self-interests for the most part and the government is being paid more while actually spending it on citizen's lives (this is completely obscure to me, I honestly don't know what that's like).
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