DEVELOPING: Shooting reported at Connecticut elementary school; 27 killed - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Drakehawke;38832295]Except diagnosing a mental illness isn't as simple as just a swab inside your cheek[/QUOTE] Oh well.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832285]Except the media does the same thing anyways to kids, "Guns are evil and kill people, you should be terrified of anyone with a gun." "Mommy, doesn't daddy have a gun for duck hunting?" "Yes" "Why is daddy evil mommy? The newsman said anyone who has guns is evil and crazy." Fear and sensationalism is what the media thrives on, and its worst effects are on children, who are naive and easily influenced.[/QUOTE] That's why kids shouldn't watch the mainstream media at a young age, because they don't understand it. They should concentrate on kiddy things while they can.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38832272]Then the guy who shot him gets shot since, in the chaos of a school shooting situation, it is unclear who the original shooter was, and then all of the sudden everyone is fucking shooting each other. It would be chaos. In a busy school with gunshots going off you better fucking believe that clear communication is going to be impossible.[/QUOTE] Again, you're acting as if permit holders are inept. If someone walks into a theatre, or a school, or a mall, and begins shooting off a rifle, chances are the permit holder(s) will see and/or hear the rifle and know it's a rifle being used in the shooting. They'll see each other pull their guns out, they'll hear each other yelling for the shooter to put the gun down, and chances are after the shooter is down, all the permit holders will advertise the fact to ensure just such a scenario doesn't happen. Like I said, people against it fabricate fictitious scenarios that have never happened and are unlikely to ever happen in an attempt to justify their disdain for something that increased public safety. And have you ever even shot a gun? It's possible to yell over them, it's not like everyone is going to be completely deaf. If clear communications were possible in a warzone with gunshots and bombs going off everywhere, they're possible in a building with one or two people shooting guns.

[QUOTE=Drakehawke;38832295]Except diagnosing a mental illness isn't as simple as just swabbing the inside of your mouth[/QUOTE] I agree. And even then: What if someone is diagnosed with something? It takes therapy to help people and it takes a load of time for some to even recover. You can't just fix everything up with pills.

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;38832286]But it would catch the ones with giant fucking red flags coming out of their ears. Once again the anti-control argument is that if it won't miraculously fix every aspect of the problem, that it isn't worth doing.[/QUOTE] Sure, it would most certainly fix the problem in a way, but not entirely. I guess it's better than nothing though.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832285]Except the media does the same thing anyways to kids, "Guns are evil and kill people, you should be terrified of anyone with a gun." "Mommy, doesn't daddy have a gun for duck hunting?" "Yes" "Why is daddy evil mommy? The newsman said anyone who has guns is evil and crazy." Fear and sensationalism is what the media thrives on, and its worst effects are on children, who are naive and easily influenced.[/QUOTE] You really care more about perpetuating a persecution complex for your shitty little hobby than you care about all the dead children in the world. The true victim on this day isn't all of the people who were shot to death but the innocent gun owners who will be made to feel sad by the media [IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG] Go take a fucking walk.

[QUOTE=KILLTHIS;38832335]I agree. And even then: What if someone is diagnosed with something? It takes therapy to help people and it takes a load of time for some to even recover. You can't just fix everything up with pills.[/QUOTE] Well, ideally then they wouldn't be allowed to legally purchase a gun, thus reducing greatly the chances that they go out and do something like this

[img]http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1355521179965.jpg[/img] Fuckers.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832285]Except the media does the same thing anyways to kids, "Guns are evil and kill people, you should be terrified of anyone with a gun." "Mommy, doesn't daddy have a gun for duck hunting?" "Yes" "Why is daddy evil mommy? The newsman said anyone who has guns is evil and crazy." Fear and sensationalism is what the media thrives on, and its worst effects are on children, who are naive and easily influenced.[/QUOTE] The media also propagandizes that guns are good/people against guns are bad (a great deal of the time, the media isn't a homogeneous blob).

[QUOTE=Drakehawke;38832355]Well, ideally then they wouldn't be allowed to legally purchase a gun[/QUOTE] Woops, my bad. Lost the trail over the specific subject. Yep, you're right.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832227]He's going to notice someone trying to steal a gun off his holster on his hip, it takes a fair bit of force to extract a gun from a modern holster, it's not like the guard is going to become so desensitized he won't notice someone trying to steal something on his hip by them yanking at it.[/QUOTE] Alright, I'll give you that the kids taking a hold of the gun isn't very realistic. I still don't think it's going to stop much especially considering with the killer's intending to kill himself at the end. And seriously though, how comparable is your average private security force with the police?

[QUOTE=Drakehawke;38832355]Well, ideally then they wouldn't be allowed to legally purchase a gun, thus reducing greatly the chances that they go out and do something like this[/QUOTE] But seeing how getting an illegal gun is just a manner of logging into TOR and buying one, it still has major holes in it.

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;38832286]But it would catch the ones with giant fucking red flags coming out of their ears. Once again the anti-control argument is that if it won't miraculously fix every aspect of the problem, that it isn't worth doing.[/QUOTE] You can't force mental health care on anyone who doesn't want to, people need healthcare to pay for these things, and you would need a psychologist on deck to do these evaluations which to be honest...are voluntary and second concerns for a mental health clinic.

I like 4chan but god damn is it full of every type of person you can think of. Some are murderers, some are rapists, some are furries, bronies, etc crap. Some people on /b/ are good but I can't understand why someone would think killing people then killing themselves is the best way out. [img]http://s12.postimage.org/ruq0czsfh/1355520723614.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38832361]The media also propagandizes that guns are good/people against guns are bad (a great deal of the time, the media isn't a homogeneous blob).[/QUOTE] That's on a case by case basis (the case being the media outlet in question.) Fox News might say that, but the media as a whole doesn't glorify guns and gun ownership.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38832351]You really care more about perpetuating a persecution complex for your shitty little hobby than you care about all the dead children in the world. The true victim on this day isn't all of the people who were shot to death but the innocent gun owners who will be made to feel sad by the media [IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/IMG] Go take a fucking walk.[/QUOTE] I was using a fucking counter example for his suggestion that kids will develop a fear of guns due to armed security. God you are an ignorant fucking tool, of course I don't care more about that than the fucking kids dying you ridiculous idiot. If all you're going to do is come in here and be an ignorant fucking prick, then kindly fuck the hell off. I hate using insults in an argument, but in this case I'll make an exception.

I just heard something interesting. [url=http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/12/2012121481220620325.html]There was another mass attack committed at an elementary school today.[/url] 22 children were stabbed by a man who was mentally ill in China. I say this is interesting because I found it in a series of comments on Reddit in support of banning guns in America, because no one actually DIED in that mass attack. It's like people seem okay with that.... that "no one died," and instantly concluded that if America had banned guns, no one would have died in this attack. I could not believe how ignorant those remarks were.... that we should ban guns, and continue ignoring the actual problems that cause these crimes, and be happy that people aren't dying in mass shootings, but are being seriously injured in stabbing attacks.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;38832385]You can't force mental health care on anyone who doesn't want to, people need healthcare to pay for these things, and you would need a psychologist on deck to do these evaluations which to be honest...are voluntary and second concerns for a mental health clinic.[/QUOTE] If someone doesn't want mental health screening that's fine. They shouldn't be allowed to get a gun though.

Another police conference going on.

[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;38832364]Alright, I'll give you that the kids taking a hold of the gun isn't very realistic. I still don't think it's going to stop much especially considering with the killer's intending to kill himself at the end. And seriously though, how comparable is your average private security force with the police?[/QUOTE] Well let's put it like this. The Police is an organized institution. Private Security firms are not exactly on par with the Police for on the that level. Most Policemen I've met have been cool and nice guys. Most Private Security firm personnel I've met have been complete tools at best.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;38832411] I could not believe how ignorant those remarks were.... that we should ban guns, and continue ignoring the actual problems that cause these crimes, and be happy that people aren't dying in mass shootings, but are being seriously injured in stabbing attacks.[/QUOTE] At least they wouldn't be dead though, they have a chance to recover and live out the majority of their life still

[QUOTE=Hullu V3;38832441]Well let's put it like this. The Police is an organized institution. Private Security firms are not exactly on par with the Police for on the that level. Most Policemen I've met have been cool and nice guys. Most Private Security firm personnel I've met have been complete tools at best.[/QUOTE] It's not even that: police officers are publicly accountable; private citizens are not.

Next briefing at 6 EST. Some questions being answered.

[QUOTE=Hullu V3;38832298]Why should a kid constantly fear the bad boy at an age that mainly consists of playing with friends and having a jolly time? Way to take the innocence of childhood away.[/QUOTE] So the kid should instead fear the very person who's there to protect him? How the hell is that going to work? The innocence if childhood is lost no matter who the kid fears, I'm just saying it would be better for them to fear the one that could actually affect them in a negative way.

nevermind

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38832463]It's not even that: police officers are publicly accountable; private citizens are not.[/QUOTE] Yes, and quite often the people who end up in private security firms are people who failed police academy. Or are otherwise inproper for regural police work.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832332]Again, you're acting as if permit holders are inept. If someone walks into a theatre, or a school, or a mall, and begins shooting off a rifle, chances are the permit holder(s) will see and/or hear the rifle and know it's a rifle being used in the shooting. They'll see each other pull their guns out, they'll hear each other yelling for the shooter to put the gun down, and chances are after the shooter is down, all the permit holders will advertise the fact to ensure just such a scenario doesn't happen. Like I said, people against it fabricate fictitious scenarios that have never happened and are unlikely to ever happen in an attempt to justify their disdain for something that increased public safety.[/QUOTE] Increases public safety? If you had a lot of people with guns (not all gun owners are responsible people, and even then, all humans have bouts of irrational behavior) then you would end up with a mass clusterfuck of shooting on all sides. [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832332]And have you ever even shot a gun?[/QUOTE] Different guns exist, with different calibres, a different kick, etc. If you have people in a madhouse situation then multiple people using guns will make it worse. [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832332]It's possible to yell over them, it's not like everyone is going to be completely deaf.[/QUOTE] No it isn't. [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832332]If clear communications were possible in a warzone with gunshots and bombs going off everywhere, they're possible in a building with one or two people shooting guns.[/QUOTE] That's because in the past, when volleys of guns were fired in succession, drums, flutes, pipes, bagpipes, drills, flags and body motion was used to direct soldiers more then the sound of somebodies actual voice. Today, soldiers tend to carry walkie-talkie type devices or work in small groups.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;38832423]If someone doesn't want mental health screening that's fine. They shouldn't be allowed to get a gun though.[/QUOTE] So please tell me what disorders would prevent someone from owning a gun?

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38832285]Except the media does the same thing anyways to kids, "Guns are evil and kill people, you should be terrified of anyone with a gun." "Mommy, doesn't daddy have a gun for duck hunting?" "Yes" "Why is daddy evil mommy? The newsman said anyone who has guns is evil and crazy." Fear and sensationalism is what the media thrives on, and its worst effects are on children, who are naive and easily influenced.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but a hunting rifle is for hunting, a gun on a security guard is meant specifically to kill other people, I can see how it would affect a kid more. I mean, a kid being confronted with the fact that the guard that's right in front of them might end up killing someone can't feel right.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38832463]It's not even that: police officers are publicly accountable; private citizens are not.[/QUOTE] You know absolutely nothing of CCW laws and regulations if you're trying to assert this, they're accountable to the police and to the courts, as well as to the mass media. Take the Trayvon Martin case, for example, a perfect example of where the potential misuse of CCW leads to public accountability for the permit holder, the media were on that for months.