DEVELOPING: Shooting reported at Connecticut elementary school; 27 killed
1,626 replies, posted
[QUOTE=jaykray;38835208]This has been posted before (although not this exact image). I'm just putting it back up for consistency.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SqnFE.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Someone should tell these people they've got the wrong guy.
The actual Ryan Lanza must feel like shit right now.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38835693]alright so you're a teacher
you've already heard shots and screaming coming from the room next door
guy comes in
in an ideal world, sure, i imagine that probably yeah, teacher can take the shot
but i would imagine that 9 times out of10 they would cock it up[/QUOTE]
Not likely, and you have no evidence to back up the assertion that "9 times out of 10 they'd cock it up" that's just an unfounded assumption. Yes, it's different than at the range, but we've already established that a private citizen who's never experienced a mass shooting before is, or can be, just as theoretically prepared for it as a cop who's never experienced one before. An average classroom is about what, 40-50 feet across in either direction? That's not a very far range, most guns are tested at the factory for accuracy up to 15 yards, about as long as the average classroom is going to be. Hitting a man-sided target at the door at 15 yards is not a hard feat if you know how to use guns, and becomes slightly harder in a high-stress scenario, yes, but the number of times they'd "cock it up" wouldn't be 9 out of 10, and it's not like they can't take a second shot if they miss.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;38835681]When the 2nd amendment was made, guns were one shot muskets that took a long ass time to be reloaded, requiring tools similar to handheld chimney sweepers. The bullets also did not penetrate multiple walls with ease.
Granted no one wants to ban guns, rather have background checks, because many places do not, and laws that enforce sensible responsibilities[/QUOTE]
Cool beans.
Now guns can shoot hundreds of bullets a minute. The military uses these guns. For the 2nd Amendment to mean anything, civilians should be able to use these weapons as well, to achieve parity with the government.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;38835681]When the 2nd amendment was made, guns were one shot muskets that took a long as time to be reloaded, requiring tools similar to handheld chimney sweepers. The bullets also did not penetrate multiple walls with ease.
Granted no one wants to ban guns, rather have background checks, because many places do not, and laws that enforce sensible responsibilities[/QUOTE]
Correction:
The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belton_flintlock]Belton Flintlock[/url] was commissoned and tested, and was supposedly capable of firing, "sixteen or twenty [balls], in sixteen, ten, or five seconds of time" and in 1779, the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle]Girandoni Air Rifle[/url] was in moderate usage with the Austrian military, and an few examples ended up in the hands of Lewis and Clark's Expedition.
The concept for repeating weapons has pretty much existed through out the ages, and the thought of such weapons was pretty much tested and devised through out the 1600's - 1800's. Even before that we had people screwing around with rockets and multi-barreled cannons.
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38835468]personally, I think that was a little tasteless, just me though[/QUOTE]
Not really, it perfectly summed up this whole situation.
This situation is pretty much spilled milk compared to the rest of the world/other shit that is happening.
And arguing over it, and letting it overcast everything else for the next few weeks isn't going to help anything either.
More kids died from hunger today.
More kids died in Syria/similar countries that are engaged in war/revolution
More kids have been killed by drone strikes.
More people died in automobile accidents today, some of them were kids
More people starved to death today in North Korea.
Etc, etc etc.
What happened today is sad, but it doesn't deserve to take up news coverage for the next few days/weeks, while everything i listed today usually gets a 2 minute news story, is much more horrible and is easily, and quickly forgotten.
[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;38835710]The risks of a student taking a gun from a teacher is far greater then the risk of a school shooting.[/QUOTE]
No, it's not, holsters, even older ones, are designed to grip the gun in such a way that it takes effort to remove the gun from the holster. That is not effort a 10 year old is able to apply physically, or will be able to apply without being noticed. A holster is not necessarily, and especially in this case wouldn't' be, just an "easy slip-in-and-out" kind of thing, it would have some way to grip the gun to hold it in the holster. The kids wouldn't be able to get to the gun without the teacher noticing, and once they noticed, they'd stop the kids. There is next to no risk of a kid staling their teacher's gun out of the holster.
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;38835771]Not really, it perfectly summed up this whole situation.
This situation is pretty much spilled milk compared to the rest of the world/other shit that is happening.
And arguing over it, and letting it overcast everything else for the next few weeks isn't going to help anything either.
More kids died from hunger today.
More kids died in Syria/similar countries that are engaged in war/revolution
More kids have been killed by drone strikes.
More people died in automobile accidents today, some of them were kids
More people starved to death today in North Korea.
Etc, etc etc.
What happened today is sad, but it doesn't deserve to take up news coverage for the next few days/weeks, while everything i listed today usually gets a 2 minute news story, is much more horrible and is easily, and quickly forgotten.[/QUOTE]
right the onion article flew over your head i see
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38835778]No, it's not, holsters, even older ones, are designed to grip the gun in such a way that it takes effort to remove the gun from the holster. That is not effort a 10 year old is able to apply physically, or will be able to apply without being noticed. A holster is not necessarily, and especially in this case wouldn't' be, just an "easy slip-in-and-out" kind of thing, it would have some way to grip the gun to hold it in the holster. The kids wouldn't be able to get to the gun without the teacher noticing, and once they noticed, they'd stop the kids. There is next to no risk of a kid staling their teacher's gun out of the holster.[/QUOTE]
okay lets go to a different case
no matter how many times the school says "keep your gun on you at all times"
one teacher will invariably put it in a desk drawer or whatever
what happens when they forget to lock it
Wait are we seriously having a conversation about [I]arming teachers[/I]?
[I]Really guys?[/I]
[B][I]Seriously? [/I][/B]
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;38835787]right the onion article flew over your head i see[/QUOTE]
Even if i missed the main point of the article, what i said still holds true.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38835790]okay lets go to a different case
no matter how many times the school says "keep your gun on you at all times"
one teacher will invariably put it in a desk drawer or whatever
what happens when they forget to lock it[/QUOTE]
They get fired, and it doesn't happen again. Despite what you think, most kids aren't completely retarded, and they'd be sure to educate the kids as to proper safety around guns. Not to mention the kid, if they even get the chance to shoot someone, or if they even find the gun in the drawer, because kids don't often root through teacher's drawers, it would likely be either themselves or one person, then they'd start crying, and other teachers would rush in.
Also, if you tell the teacher they'll be fired and criminally charged if they leave their gun lying around, they're not going to leave their gun lying around.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38835829]They get fired, and it doesn't happen again. Despite what you think, most kids aren't completely retarded, and they'd be sure to educate the kids as to proper safety around guns. Not to mention the kid, if they even get the chance to shoot someone, or if they even find the gun in the drawer, because kids don't often root through teacher's drawers, it would likely be either themselves or one person.
Also, if you tell the teacher they'll be fired and criminally charged if they leave their gun lying around, they're not going to leave their gun lying around.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit we are.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38835800]Wait are we seriously having a conversation about [I]arming teachers[/I]?
[I]Really guys?[/I]
[B][I]Seriously? [/I][/B][/QUOTE]
israel started encouraging the armament of teachers and school officials in the early '70s after the ma'alot massacre and everything went pretty well
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;38835828]Even if i missed the main point of the article, what i said still holds true.[/QUOTE]
i mean you're trivializing a tragic loss of human life that's pretty close to home for a lot of us, what a good point to make sir? lol
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;38835838]israel started encouraging the armament of teachers and school officials in the early '70s after the ma'alot massacre and everything went pretty well
i mean you're trivializing a tragic loss of human life that's pretty close to home for a lot of us, what a good point to make sir? lol[/QUOTE]
Different cultures, different social norms and standards of behavior; not a good comparison to draw
Don't they encourage teachers to carry guns in Texas?
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38835864]Don't they encourage teachers to carry guns in Texas?[/QUOTE]
I have lived in Texas for my whole life and I have never heard of anything like that.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38835864]Don't they encourage teachers to carry guns in Texas?[/QUOTE]
A small district in Texas [B]allowed [/B] [I]some [/I]teachers to carry concealed weapons.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38835859]Different cultures, different social norms and standards of behavior; not a good comparison to draw[/QUOTE]
okay thailand successfully implemented similar public policy as well, societies don't have to be carbon-copies for identical policies to be enacted and have some efficacy
[QUOTE=Maloof?;38835859]Different cultures, different social norms and standards of behavior; not a good comparison to draw[/QUOTE]
Yet people keep drawing comparisons to countries like Britain for examples of gun control working
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;38835838]
i mean you're trivializing a tragic loss of human life that's pretty close to home for a lot of us, what a good point to make sir? lol[/QUOTE]
So trivializing life that is lost, a much larger quantity of life that is lost, that is farther away is okay, because it is farther away?
Im on the other side of the country from CT, almost 2 thousand miles away. I knew no one there, I've never been there, most people i know haven't either, or didn't know anyone there, and i bet most people here are in the same boat too. What happened today may as well have happened in a distant country, like China, or Germany, it would be equally sad, as it is in CT. It's just bother some that this isn't true for a large majority of people.
The only thing that is "close to home" is that they were Americans. So you're pretty much saying that they should take priority of news coverage because of where they live? and not the quantity of lives lost? or the depth of the atrocity?
But you do have a valid point, most people will feel empathy for this situation because they can "relate" to the victims, but it saddens me that they mostly relate on the level of "we live in the same country".
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;38835918]So trivializing life that is lost, a much larger quantity of life that is lost, that is farther away is okay, because it is farther away?
Im on the other side of the country from CT, almost 2 thousand miles away. I knew no one there, I've never been there, most people i know haven't either, or didn't know anyone, and i bet most people here too. What happened today may as well have happened in a distant country, like China, or Germany, it would be equally sad, as it is here. It's just bother some that this isn't true for a large majority of people.
The only thing that is "close to home" is that they were Americans. So you're pretty much saying that they should take priority of news coverage because of where they live? and not the quantity of lives lost? or the depth of the atrocity?
But you do have a valid point, most people will feel empathy for this situation because they can "relate" to the victims, but it saddens me that they mostly relate on the level of "we live in the same country".[/QUOTE]
that was heavy
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;38835914]Yet people keep drawing comparisons to countries like Britain for examples of gun control working[/QUOTE]
Britain isn't a great comparison either but it's a lot better than a middle eastern country. There are magnitudes more similarities between two western nations (Britain and the US, Britain and Australia, etc) in terms of the behaviour of citizens than there are between a culturally distant nation like Israel
I'm not saying it's not worth a look but you have to bear in mind that somebody from a country like Israel is going to behave much differently to an American for a lot of reasons
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38835829]They get fired, and it doesn't happen again. Despite what you think, most kids aren't completely retarded, and they'd be sure to educate the kids as to proper safety around guns. Not to mention the kid, if they even get the chance to shoot someone, or if they even find the gun in the drawer, because kids don't often root through teacher's drawers, it would likely be either themselves or one person, then they'd start crying, and other teachers would rush in.
Also, if you tell the teacher they'll be fired and criminally charged if they leave their gun lying around, they're not going to leave their gun lying around.[/QUOTE]
Alright man. I like guns as much as you do, and I believe everyone should be educated about guns, but with how close to prison our schools in the US already are, arming every teacher is just a terrible idea.
Something's gonna go wrong - a teacher shoots a kid for example - and, well, that's just a huge risk. More guns doesn't solve the problem. Keeping guns out of the hands of crazies does.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;38835800]Wait are we seriously having a conversation about [I]arming teachers[/I]?
[I]Really guys?[/I]
[B][I]Seriously? [/I][/B][/QUOTE]
This is the world we live in, like it or not.
I'm so damn late but this is fucking terrible. I'm starting to hate everything.
I hate how everyone is always so shocked that these shootings happen. People say things like "there are too many nutcases in this world" and shit, as if people choose to wake up one day from a completely sound moral existence and shoot up a school.
Everything is determined by something else.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;38835949]Alright man. I like guns as much as you do, and I believe everyone should be educated about guns, but with how close to prison our schools in the US already are, arming every teacher is just a terrible idea.
Something's gonna go wrong - a teacher shoots a kid for example - and, well, that's just a huge risk. More guns doesn't solve the problem. Keeping guns out of the hands of crazies does.[/QUOTE]
I'm mostly just counter-arguing this point to present the pro-side of the argument, I wouldn't necessarily have the teachers armed either, though I'm presenting the argument that it wouldn't be as bad as people think it would be.
Something is obviously not right in American society
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38835965]I'm mostly just counter-arguing this point to present the pro-side of the argument, I wouldn't necessarily have the teachers armed either, though I'm presenting the argument that it wouldn't be as bad as people think it would be.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it'd be as bad as everyone's making it out to be, but I don't think it would be good, either.
[editline]14th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;38835975]Something is obviously not right in American society[/QUOTE]
Yep, the actions of one dude reflect on the entire American society. Solid work.
