DEVELOPING: Shooting reported at Connecticut elementary school; 27 killed - Polidicks

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38836679]I have heard from numerous sources that blacks have an incredibly difficult time getting a gun in South Africa, and that police will randomly confiscate guns to re-sell them on the black market.[/QUOTE] You can't blame gun control for that, that's a corrupt and unworkable police force and legal system right there. Gun control didn't cause that. [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38836679]Gun control there was also designed by the Canadian who designed gun control here, who has been pushing one shooting that happened over 20 years ago as her main reason as to why gun are evil and the seeming sole cause for abuse against women and spousal deaths, because the mass shooting was against all women, despite the fact that at the most 14 women will die in any given year in a domestic situation due to a firearm, compared with a national murder rate of over 500, and you get a number statistically insignificant for justification of gun control.[/QUOTE] Right, so would deaths be reduced by the law anyways? [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38836679]No, it doesn't, this is completely your personal ridiculous bias to the situation, and I think we've been over this much before as well, and you've ignored it.[/QUOTE] except earlier you were arguing that teachers should carry firearms [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38836679]Nor will banning them.[/QUOTE] except you argued that increasing them would help [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38836679]So defending one of the US' constitutional rights is bullshit now? No, they're criticized LEGITIMATELY for being a republican shill, the Brady Campaign hating them doesn't count as legitimate criticism.[/QUOTE] for fucks sake, their ideology isnt "defending constitutional rights", its to see guns become more widely used and accepted [QUOTE=DaCommie1;38836679]And anti-gun organizations profit whenever there's an opportunity to push more restrictive control measures. That's not a one-way street, but the point is neither wants these things to happen, and at a point like this the NRA isn't pushing for less gun control, they're pushing for there not to be more.[/QUOTE] the NRA actually is plus pro-gun lobbies are kinda more powerful than anti-gun lobbies

[QUOTE=gk99;38836661]Gun control or any talk of it is bullshit and even then it wouldn't solve shit. 1.) There are too many firearms already available for black market buying. 2.) Our second amendment right prevents that anyway, so why the hell is this even being discussed? 3.) If somebody decides to drive their car into a mall and mow over a hundred or so people, who's going to fucking cry out loud that you want to ban cars?[/QUOTE] 1.) then spend less time fighting a war on drugs and put those resources towards finding and arresting citizens who are participating in the black market, give them extremely harsh prison sentences for their offenses and deter other citizens from thinking "w/e i'll just sell him the pistol". obv there will always be a black market but why not try to stifle it, it's entirely possible 2.) because the 2nd ammendment and the constitution are dated, often vague documents, as is the case in the wording of the 2nd ammendment. do you know what a militia is or did your reading glasses fog up while you were breathing heavily in a fit of rage after learning people wanted to make you wait a week before you pick up your gun? 3.) let me know when mall-mowdowns are a daily occurrence and the most popular method of committing homicide and we'll talk about restricting access to cars

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38836715]This is because a massive domestic industry already exists.[/QUOTE] Uh, okay. Duh. [QUOTE]This is a circular argument. Anybody who uses "its in the second amendment" is a tosser who doesn't look at the merits of a law, but just falls back to some earlier law that was written over 200 years ago by a tiny group of upper class white men.[/QUOTE] Go ahead and change it. See what happens. Like SuperDuperScoot said, think of it like a bad DRM. We, the legitimate, non-psycho-mindfucked people, will have tons of restrictions, while they, the illegitimate, psycho-mindfucked people, will still have access to all of these. [QUOTE]Not everybody is that fast, and its still slower than a full automatic.[/QUOTE] "...while they, the illegitimate, psycho-mindfucked people, will still have access to all of these."

[QUOTE=gk99;38836774]Uh, okay. Duh.[/QUOTE] if you want rid of guns, attack and weaken the industry raise taxes on gun producing companies put a tax on the sale of bullets put high tariffs on the imports and exports of firearms and munitions put in further regulations on acquiring guns and using them these sorts of things weaken the domestic industry as a whole, and in turn, will reduce the production of guns and bullets over time as demand is artificially reduced whilst production costs rise

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38836771]1.) then spend less time fighting a war on drugs and put those resources towards finding and arresting citizens who are participating in the black market, give them extremely harsh prison sentences for their offenses and deter other citizens from thinking "w/e i'll just sell him the pistol". obv there will always be a black market but why not try to stifle it, it's entirely possible[/QUOTE] Those two go hand-in-hand. [QUOTE]2.) because the 2nd ammendment and the constitution are dated, often vague documents, as is the case in the wording of the 2nd ammendment.[/QUOTE] That wasn't a statement. [QUOTE]do you know what a militia is or did your reading glasses fog up while you were breathing heavily in a fit of rage after learning people wanted to make you wait a week before you pick up your gun?[/QUOTE] Since this is purely just an insult, I'll insult back. You should seriously consider suicide and get AIDS in a car fire. [QUOTE]3.) let me know when mall-mowdowns are a daily occurrence and the most popular method of committing homicide and we'll talk about restricting access to cars[/QUOTE] Let me know when mass-murderings are daily occurrences. And people will find other ways to kill one-another even if guns are actually "controlled". So, it's possible. [editline]14th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;38836811]if you want rid of guns, attack and weaken the industry raise taxes on gun producing companies put a tax on the sale of bullets put high tariffs on the imports and exports of firearms and munitions put in further regulations on acquiring guns and using them these sorts of things weaken the domestic industry as a whole, and in turn, will reduce the production of guns and bullets over time as demand is artificially reduced whilst production costs rise[/QUOTE] Why didn't you state this earlier if you were planning on using it as a valid point?

My two cents: Instead of gun control, how about we raise the budget for mental health and start doing a better job of registering the mentally ill? Maybe this guy or many of the other nuts out there wouldn't have legally purchased firearms if they had been tracked better and it was illegal for them to do so? Edit: that is gun control, ignore everything before the first comma

[QUOTE=gk99;38836818]Let me know when mass-murderings are daily occurrences. And people will find other ways to kill one-another even if guns are actually "controlled". So, it's possible.[/QUOTE] shootings are kinda a daily thing [editline]15th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38836834]My two cents: Instead of gun control, how about we raise the budget for mental health and start doing a better job of registering the mentally ill? Maybe this guy or many of the other nuts out there wouldn't have legally purchased firearms if they had been tracked better and it was illegal for them to do so?[/QUOTE] we could raise a tax on firearms and munitions, and use the proceeds for mental health

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;38836540]"You disagree with my unfounded claim, therefore you're wrong." Brilliant, completely infallible "logic" there. I'm wrong about US gun culture not being a cancer for what reason exactly? Because you think it is? Is that the argument presented here?[/QUOTE] Yes. America's infatuation with firearms is an unsettling phenomenon that, as far as I am aware, doesn't extend to any other first would country. It's part of the reasons you see some of the absurd arguments in this thread, where people having a gun is the end-all solution to every problem that comes up in our day to day life, and that the world would just be safer if we got more guns. A society where everyone is armed against everyone else is not one I want to live in. [QUOTE] Then how about the Brady Campaign trying to blame gun owners for all of this, responsible citizens? [/QUOTE] This is not an actual part of the Brady Campaign's platform [QUOTE]How about Bloomberg and his Mayors Against "Illegal" Guns running fear campaigns across the country? [/QUOTE] Again, have not actually heard anything about this. Can you cite specific examples? Is endorsing gun control a "fear campaign"? I do have this excerpt from their webpage [QUOTE]We support the Second Amendment and the rights of citizens to own guns. We recognize that the vast majority of gun dealers and gun owners carefully follow the law. And we know that a policy that is appropriate for a small town in one region of the country is not necessarily appropriate for a big city in another region of the country.[/QUOTE] Chilling in it's moderation [QUOTE]How about anti-gun news commentators bringing pro-gun activists on their shows just to yell at them and shout them down, and try and blame them for these things (Peirs Morgan on CNN with John Lott is an example from today).[/QUOTE] What pundits do in their spare time is none of my concern and shouldn't be yours either. That said, I can't actually find a recording of this right now so take that how you will [QUOTE] Since no amount of gun control can stop a gunman from acquiring a gun, but making sure he's receiving treatment for mental issues can prevent him from going on a shooting, no, it can't.[/QUOTE] But gun control does work, on a local, state, and federal level. Countries with much stricter gun control than America have vastly lower gun homicide rates than the United States. Now, whether or not we should insistute the same policies as all of those other countries do is a different question entirely, but it's preposterous to say that there is no amount of gun control that can stop someone from getting a gun. [QUOTE]That's a loaded question, as there's no guarantee he wouldn't have done it just as well. Mass stabbing in Asia claim similar numbers of lives to mass shootings in the developed western world, so it actually wouldn't matter which tool he used, he could have killed just as many people.[/QUOTE] This is statistically false. Mass stabbings tend to injure as many people but kill far less. [QUOTE] Bi-weekly? So because there were 2 this week, suddenly there are 2 every week? [/QUOTE] Bi-weekly, as in two happened in one week. Hopefully two don't happen next week [QUOTE]I'm also going ot need a source on the "terrorist watch list" claim[/QUOTE] Sure thing. Does the NRA count as a reliable source? [url]http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2011/why-nra-opposes-gun-control-supporters%60.aspx[/url] [QUOTE]and those extra profits from gun sales don't all go back to the NRA, as a matter of fact, I think the NRA pays the gun makers to include their pamphlet in every gun box. The main reason people are disappointed with the NRA now is because they're moving away from bipartisanism, and supporting the Republicans, due to the Democrat's history with gun laws.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.vpc.org/press/1104blood.htm[/url] It's called the NRA complex. Gun manufacturers give money to the NRA, who then creates fear and propaganda, which drives up gun sales, and both parties benefit And no the reason NRA members are polling against the NRA itself isn't due to partisan bickery, it's because the NRA is putting business interests ahead of it's members interests, by letting criminals and possibly terrorists easily buy firearms [QUOTE] It happened once already, between 1994-2004, it was a massive failure then and it'd be a massive failure now.[/QUOTE] Pro gun and gun control advocates have both said that the Federal Assault Weapons Ban was weak, poorly put together legislation. Stop holding it up as the prime failure of every gun control measure ever, and more importantly as a barricade to discussion [QUOTE] Actually, several people have with claims that "assault weapons are unnecessary" and that the 2nd Amendment is irrelevant, thus not protecting the right to own firearms. As well, if you look at what "gun control" has amounted to in literally every other nation, and even in US history, it's amounted to nonsensical bans based on aesthetics more than function.[/QUOTE] Again, pretty pro-firearms. But there is merit to the conversation that yes, maybe assault rifles that were designed specifically to kill human beings shouldn't be atleast easy for civilians to get their hands on. Just maybe that is where we draw the line. If every other nation's weapon bans are nonsensical and cosmetic, how come they have so much less problems with guns than us? [QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;38836542]One more thing, let me make one thing clear I (stupidly) neglected to do in my original post. I'm mostly talking about people who think increased gun control or gun bans are a cure-all and no more mass shootings will ever happen in the US again, when it doesn't work that way. (See: Most Americans deliberately breaking major laws to the point of killing people to prove a point, you can't say you haven't seen/heard of it happen) Sure, it might reduce them somewhat, but I'm just tired of people thinking that it will solve every gun problem and make the world happy.[/QUOTE] Just so we are clear you are still talking about people who aren't in this thread right? Because again, no one actually here in the thread you are replying to has said that gun control of any variety would completely halt mass shootings or mass murders fullstop.

[QUOTE=gk99;38836818]Those two go hand-in-hand.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=gk99;38836818]That wasn't a statement.[/QUOTE] what? seriously come on elaborate, if you want to talk like a big boy about stuff that affects human lives on a daily basis at least have the balls to actually talk about it instead of being coy and cute with teeny tiny dodgy replies like this [QUOTE=gk99;38836818]Let me know when mass-murderings are daily occurrences. And people will find other ways to kill one-another even if guns are actually "controlled". So, it's possible.[/QUOTE] uhh so do murders with guns not count unless they're mass murders or something lmao? do you have some quota of insatiable bloodlust that has to be satisfied before you're willing to consider that guns do actually kill people on a daily basis? [editline]15th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38836834]My two cents: Instead of gun control, how about we raise the budget for mental health and start doing a better job of registering the mentally ill? Maybe this guy or many of the other nuts out there wouldn't have legally purchased firearms if they had been tracked better and it was illegal for them to do so?[/QUOTE] oh MAN what a great idea! if i could pitch in for a moment: what if we did both??

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38836834]My two cents: Instead of gun control, how about we raise the budget for mental health and start doing a better job of registering the mentally ill? Maybe this guy or many of the other nuts out there wouldn't have legally purchased firearms if they had been tracked better and it was illegal for them to do so?[/QUOTE]I agree, but just so you know that actually is a form of gun control you suggested.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38836771]2.) because the 2nd ammendment and the constitution are dated, often vague documents, as is the case in the wording of the 2nd ammendment. do you know what a militia is or did your reading glasses fog up while you were breathing heavily in a fit of rage after learning people wanted to make you [b]wait a week before you pick up your gun?[/b][/QUOTE] Depending on the firearm, it can take anywhere from several weeks to maybe even a couple of months to actually [i]get[/i] the firearm. If I'm not mistaken, it took me a couple of months to get my Saiga conversion.

[QUOTE=gk99;38836818]stuff[/QUOTE] please stop arguing pendantics

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38836836]shootings are kinda a daily thing [editline]15th December 2012[/editline] we could raise a tax on firearms and munitions, and use the proceeds for mental health[/QUOTE] You know, given the fuckton of ammunition I go through for each of my guns, that's a pretty good idea. Good luck getting it past the NRA [editline]15th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Boxbot219;38836865]I agree, but just so you know that actually is a form of gun control you suggested.[/QUOTE] ugh, my bad. I was thinking conventional 'hurr-durr lets ban assault rifles newer than 1994' gun control.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38836768]You can't blame gun control for that, that's a corrupt and unworkable police force and legal system right there. Gun control didn't cause that.[/quote] No, but I can blame the gun control system for being racist, and I can also blame how miserable a failure it has been for the frequency of muggins and murders there. [quote]Right, so would deaths be reduced by the law anyways?[/quote] No, because the law doesn't magically stop someone from using their gun to kill their wife. [quote]except earlier you were arguing that teachers should carry firearms[/quote] I went over much of this in that miserable thread you made in mass debate, where you stonewalled any counter-argument with ignorance and denial. I see no real point in repeating it, as it would just be met with the same. [quote]except you argued that increasing them would help[/quote] No, I argued being able to carry them would help. That has nothing to do with the number of guns. I've also already addressed to you that America is at a 40-year low in murder rate despite the number of guns per 100 people being at an all-time high. [quote]for fucks sake, their ideology isnt "defending constitutional rights", its to see guns become more widely used and accepted[/quote] Which is defending part of the purpose and spirit of the 2nd Amendment. Also, why is the increased use of guns for sport a bad thing? [quote]the NRA actually is plus pro-gun lobbies are kinda more powerful than anti-gun lobbies[/QUOTE] Do you have a press release from the NRA dated today where they push for less gun control? And they may be in the US, but literally everywhere else they're minuscule, and they're gaining traction in the US as well.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38836869]Depending on the firearm, it can take anywhere from several weeks to maybe even a couple of months to actually [i]get[/i] the firearm. If I'm not mistaken, it took me a couple of months to get my Saiga conversion.[/QUOTE] poor you guess we better kill some kindergartners to earn you expedited shipping

[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;38836871]You know, given the fuckton of ammunition I go through for each of my guns, that's a pretty good idea. Good luck getting it past the NRA[/QUOTE] you're sharing the details of how much ammo you burn through, and you think the NRA is a good organization, why ... ?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38836771] 2.) because the 2nd ammendment and the constitution are dated, often vague documents, as is the case in the wording of the 2nd ammendment. do you know what a militia is or did your reading glasses fog up while you were breathing heavily in a fit of rage after learning people wanted to make you wait a week before you pick up your gun? [/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM[/media]

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;38836736][IMG]http://puu.sh/1B3sW[/IMG] "I do not understand Facebook."[/QUOTE] What establishment is she referring to? Because uh...in most cases people like things without knowing the person who made it.

if i'm not mistaken your Saiga conversion should take longer to ship because of clearing an assault rifle (or foreign made parts? i can't remember) with the ATF, not because of background checks or waiting periods

I'm glad Illinois just made concealed carry legal.

[QUOTE=Ownederd;38836893]you're sharing the details of how much ammo you burn through, and you think the NRA is a good organization, why ... ?[/QUOTE] you misinterpreted my sarcasm. the NRA part was sarcasm, I was dead serious about it being a good idea

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38836771] 2.) because the 2nd ammendment and the constitution are dated, often vague documents, as is the case in the wording of the 2nd ammendment. do you know what a militia is or did your reading glasses fog up while you were breathing heavily in a fit of rage after learning people wanted to make you wait a week before you pick up your gun? [/QUOTE] The US Supreme Court would like a word with you... District of Columbia v. Heller [2008]: [quote](1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;38836895][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM[/media][/QUOTE] i've seen this video a million times (shocker: you aren't the only one to post it) and i still don't give a shit. i disagree with penn and teller

[QUOTE=gk99;38836661]Gun control or any talk of it is bullshit and even then it wouldn't solve shit. 1.) There are too many firearms already available for black market buying.[/QUOTE] Most firearms used in crimes are legally owned. [QUOTE]2.) Our second amendment right prevents that anyway, so why the hell is this even being discussed?[/QUOTE] Yet we ban civilian ownership of assault rifles, light machine guns, and anti-aicraft guns. As well as active heavy ordinance like tanks, assault gunships, and naval destroyers. Surely if we have banned so many things that give us parity with the US government (remember, the real reasoning behind the 2nd amendment) making small arms slightly harder to acquire for certain people isn't that much trampling on our rights?[QUOTE] 3.) If somebody decides to drive their car into a mall and mow over a hundred or so people, who's going to fucking cry out loud that you want to ban cars?[/QUOTE] Get back to me when we have bi-weekly car homicides, or when cars that are specifically made to kill people are being produced and sold to people. Toyota doesn't count, they know about the brake problems.

Some states are even allowing Open carry now. its crazy. I also don't get why "BAN GUNS" is even someones opinion. Do you really think criminals who intend to harm someone care if their gun is legal or not. That takes guns out of civilians hands and puts it into people buying them illegally, which are most likely criminals. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38836919]i've seen this video a million times (shocker: you aren't the only one to post it) and i still don't give a shit. i disagree with penn and teller[/QUOTE] guys i can't explain why i disagree intelligently, i just do. so don't try to sway me!

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38836884]poor you guess we better kill some kindergartners to earn you expedited shipping[/QUOTE] You took that the wrong way. I was simply pointing out that you were mistaken in your estimate of 1 week. It takes far longer than that because gunsmiths actually take time to work on weapons, to make sure they are up to standards. That can take quite a while, especially if the gunsmith has a lot of orders to complete. You need to take some midol for your cramps or something.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;38836916]The US Supreme Court would like a word with you... District of Columbia v. Heller [2008]:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kopimi;38833535]the supreme court thinks corporations are people so i could care fuck all what they think about being able to walk around town spinning revolvers around your index finger[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;38836936]You took that the wrong way. I was simply pointing out that you were mistaken in your estimate of 1 week. It takes far longer than that because gunsmiths actually take time to work on weapons, to make sure they are up to standards. That can take quite a while, especially if the gunsmith has a lot of orders to complete. You need to take some midol for your cramps or something.[/QUOTE] and why are long waiting times, in respect to regulations, are bad can you share this detail on why it's bad?

dacommie sure likes guns huh