DEVELOPING: Shooting reported at Connecticut elementary school; 27 killed - Polidicks

My school was having a lockdown drill when this shit happened.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;38829370]They can just build bombs and blow up 27 people. Or drive into a crowd of people. Or stab a bunch of people.[/QUOTE] This is a fallacy of logic, and everyone knows this.

[QUOTE=Aman VII;38829362]Back to what I said previously, how do you prevent this with laws and legislation? Mentally ill people aren't some rabid animal that you can easily spot in a crowd how are you supposed to weed these people out of the masses. The issue seems to be more leaning to healthcare and mental health[/QUOTE] Make private sale illegal, mandatory background checks, waiting period, harsher punishments for illegal sale & trade of guns and ammo. All at federal level

[QUOTE=Aman VII;38829362]Back to what I said previously, how do you prevent this with laws and legislation? Mentally ill people aren't some rabid animal that you can easily spot in a crowd how are you supposed to weed these people out of the masses. The issue seems to be more leaning to healthcare and mental health[/QUOTE] Better public mental health care would most definitely have a positive effect and one of the mechanisms for it to have a positive effect would be for people with histories of mental illnesses to be prevented from owning firearms. For this to happen there needs to be more thorough background checks for those who try to purchase a firearm and more action by the police and the ATF to prevent private, unlicensed trading of firearms.

[QUOTE=smurfy;38829392]Surely there should be some inquiry into what can be done to stop these shootings. It might be that guns should be banned, or that everyone should be given a free assault rifle, but how can the government continue to just do literally nothing at all in the face of all these shootings?[/QUOTE] The problem with this is the idea of limitless gun ownership and the gun culture endemic to America itself practically stonewalls any political attempt to begin a conversation. When Obama says absolutely nothing about guns and in fact quietly signs off on measures that increase our ability to carry them we still have people saying he is taking our guns. It's basically Facepunch on a national level; the conversation isn't even allowed.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;38829436]Better public mental health care would most definitely have a positive effect and one of the mechanisms for it to have a positive effect would be for people with histories of mental illnesses to be prevented from owning firearms. For this to happen there needs to be more thorough background checks for those who try to purchase a firearm and more action by the police and the ATF to prevent private, unlicensed trading of firearms.[/QUOTE] People still steal guns man. Most gun crimes are done with stolen guns.

[QUOTE=Rigged237;38829396]provide better mental healthcare and remove the stigma associated with getting help with said mental disorders[/QUOTE] and also have more gun control. we can do both; we don't have to do one or the other. doing both will have a bigger effect than either of them separately.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38829431]This is a fallacy of logic, and everyone knows this.[/QUOTE] but nodachi there was this one time where a guy stabbed a lot of people maybe we should ban kitchen knives lmao

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38829435]Make private sale illegal, mandatory background checks, waiting period, harsher punishments for illegal sale & trade of guns and ammo. All at federal level[/QUOTE] It still won't stop it. The whole point of being a criminal is you don't follow the rules. I forgot which country it was. Switzerland or Finland, one of those, but because of the required service, every house pretty much has an assault rifle, in most cases more than one, and that country has very very little gun crime, if any. People say No guns are the answer, which is too late, and people will say more guns is out of the question because look at what just ONE did, rather than the mentally fucked up moron using it. If you look at all the mass shootings that have taken place, and put one responsible guy with a concealed weapon there, the outcome would almost always be better than if there wasn't one. It's not a perfect solution and wouldn't always be better, but nothing will be

These mass shootings are the new face of terror

[QUOTE=Glitchman;38829250]At what point do we get to the point of decreasing civil liberties for safety, without finding the root of the problem? People die of drinking, ban alchohol people die of car crashes, ban cars ect of course guns are different, but it's still one right we have. At what point do we fix the roots of problems rather than live in bubbles? I would be fine with guns being way harder to obtain... but they exist, and if someone wants them, they will get them.[/QUOTE] Notice how each of these have "People die of..." Its the people not the item used, of course not having guns could have avoided this but guns aren't the only way we kill each other. I mean there isn't one thing that could've been taken out of the equation and had not only benefited this situation and think of it on a whole scale idea, such as fighting crime. you guys really need to stop seeing things as black and white.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38828931]What's funny is that the first people to dance on graves to push ideas are gun nut conservatives. Something like this happens, you always have an entire wave of morons going on about how if the victim had a gun this would never have happened.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking kidding me? The FIRST THING you hear on nearly any media outlet is "if they didn't have the gun this wouldn't have happened" and then the anti-gun campaigners try to turn the shooting victims into martyrs and attempt to pass "memorial" gun control legislation in the middle of emotional turmoil. The gun control advocates in Canada have been dancing on the graves of the victims of the 1989 École Polytechnique shooting since it happened, and their main argument for gun control is as a memorial for the victims. Well memorial legislation is always emotionally based and always terrible. Not to mention the media has been against guns since the shooting as well, and so have 2 major political parties, all the time justifying their platforms with the 14 women who died, and trying to imply in a way that won't get them sued that every man who owns a gun is a woman-hating sociopath.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;38829452]It still won't stop it. The whole point of being a criminal is you don't follow the rules[/QUOTE] it will severely limit the accessibility of weaponry and waiting periods have been proven to deter crimes of passion

[QUOTE=faze;38829446]People still steal guns man. Most gun crimes are done with stolen guns.[/QUOTE] So? It will do [b]SOMETHING[/b]. [b]Something[/b] is better than [b]fucking nothing[/b]. Unless you're going to argue that stricter gun control laws will somehow make the problem worse then you don't have any fucking argument against gun law reform. Go ahead and tell me that if there were more guns around and they were easier to obtain shootings like this would be less of a problem. Do it.

[QUOTE=Ziron;38829414]Children are dead, and you nitwits want to talk about your stupid guns? UGH[/QUOTE] Every "murder with a firearm" related news thread will spark a debate about gun control. This shouldn't be a surprise. It's like how every my little pony thread will result in a flamewar and how every transgendered news thread will result in a biggot festival.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;38829452]It still won't stop it. The whole point of being a criminal is you don't follow the rules[/QUOTE] Most spree-shootings are not carried out by criminals. Nor are most murders.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;38829452]It still won't stop it. The whole point of being a criminal is you don't follow the rules[/QUOTE] You DO Realise that it isn't exactly easy to get illegal guns right? It's not like there's a daily ice cream truck filled with guns going around

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;38829458]These mass shootings are the new face of terror[/QUOTE] Yea, and more worrisome than with the 'ism' at the end. These people have no goal other than self destruction with a lot of collateral damage, and they may come into your school at any time because they are having a particularly shitty day.

Yeah I agree, we should discuss new information here and give our thoughts. Keep the debates in that section meant for that or whatever.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38829486]You DO Realise that it isn't exactly easy to get illegal guns right? It's not like there's a daily ice cream truck filled with guns going around[/QUOTE] What about Detroit?

[QUOTE=Protocol7;38829287]There are a class of people that contribute nothing positive to society and somehow because I believe that there are people of color in this category I am somehow a racist.[/QUOTE] so wait you just made a very obvious racist statement and you claim you're not you literally just said people of color don't contribute anything to society

[QUOTE=Kopimi;38829473]it will severely limit the accessibility of weaponry and waiting periods have been proven to deter crimes of passion[/QUOTE] Do you have any statistics on how many people actually buy guns legally for the express purpose of going on shooting sprees?

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38829486]You DO Realise that it isn't exactly easy to get illegal guns right? It's not like there's a daily ice cream truck filled with guns going around[/QUOTE] You do realize that people break into houses and steal guns every day right? Resell them on city streets? Happens all the time here in the Baltimore area. Baltimore has the second highest murder rate in the country due to gun homicides. 99% of which are with stolen guns.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;38829452]It still won't stop it. The whole point of being a criminal is you don't follow the rules[/QUOTE] All illegal guns except pipe-rifles make in basement workshops were legal guns at some point. Tighter controls on the movement of guns between persons [b]WILL[/b] decrease their availability through illicit vectors. There's no way you can argue your way around this.

Police briefing has started.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;38829479]Every "murder with a firearm" related news thread will spark a debate about gun control. This shouldn't be a surprise. It's like how every my little pony thread will result in a flamewar and how every transgendered news thread will result in a biggot festival.[/QUOTE] Oh the joys of the Internet, where would we be without ye

Also: [quote]State Statistics: Connecticut Mental Illness Is Common • Of Connecticut’s approximately 3.5 million residents, [b]close to 109,000 adults live with serious mental illness and about 39,000 children live with serious mental health conditions.[/b] Untreated Mental Illness has Deadly and Costly Consequences • In 2006, 292 Connecticuters died by suicide. Suicide is almost always the result of untreated or under-treated mental illness. • Nationally, [b]we lose one life to suicide every 15.8 minutes[/b]. Suicide is the eleventh-leading cause of death overall and is the third-leading cause of death among youth and young adults aged 15-24. • During the 2006-07 school year, [b]approximately 32 percent of Connecticut students aged 14 and older living with serious mental health conditions who receive special education services dropped out of high school.[/b] Public Mental Health Services are Inadequate to Meet Needs • [b]Connecticut’s public mental health system provides services to only 24.5 percent of adults[/b] who live with serious mental illnesses in the state. • Connecticut spent just [b]$170 per capita on mental health agency services in 2006, or $591.6 million. This was just 2.6 percent of total state spending that year.[/b] • In 2006, 59 percent of Connecticut state mental health agency spending was on community mental health services; 30 percent was spent on state hospital care. Nationally, an average of 70 percent is spent on community mental health services and 28 percent on state hospital care. Criminal Justice Systems Bear a Heavy Burden • In 2006, 498 children were incarcerated in Connecticut’s juvenile justice system. Nationally, [b]approximately 70 percent of youth in juvenile justice systems experience mental health disorders, with 20 percent experiencing a severe mental health condition.[/b] • In 2008, approximately 3,400 adults with mental illnesses were incarcerated in prisons and jails in Connecticut. Many Residents Rely on Public Services for Needed Care • Approximately 11.5 percent of Connecticuters are enrolled in Medicaid. • Approximately 334,000 Connecticuters are uninsured. Housing is Unaffordable for People who Rely on SSI or SSDI • [b]The average rent for a studio apartment in Connecticut is 96 percent of the average Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payment[/b], making housing unaffordable for adults living with serious mental illness who rely on SSI. [/quote] [url=http://www.namict.org/perch/resources/connecticutstatestatistics.pdf]Source: NAMI CT[/url]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;38829487]Someone insane enough to even think of going into a school and shooting an entire class room doesn't give a fuck about the law, restrictions on guns won't magically make mass shootings disappear, you need to deal with the crazy people, not their toys.[/QUOTE] This fallacy drives me fucking crazy. Why can't we deal with the crazy people [I]and[/I] their 'toys'? Why does the notion that gun control won't stop ALL shootings completely invalidate the idea of gun control? I'm on neither side of this debate, but the ill logic that comes out of the pro-gun front is insane to deal with.

[QUOTE=Glitchman;38829489]Yeah I agree, we should discuss new information here and give our thoughts. Keep the debates in that section meant for that or whatever.[/QUOTE] You have literally been saying this all thread. If it didn't work the first 40 times you said it, it's not going to work now.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;38829502]Do you have any statistics on how many people actually buy guns legally for the express purpose of going on shooting sprees?[/QUOTE] Why would a spree-shooter need illegal firearms? It's not like they're planning to get away with it.