GOP Official: Voters don't choose the nominee, we do - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Moronic;49964322]It would be the death of the GOP if they tried to stop Trump. They suppressed the populist element of their party for too long and now it's manifested suddenly, not even affording the opportunity for a controlled opposition. They can either lose control of their party willingly or go down painfully.[/QUOTE] I wonder if Trump has promised any of them that he will surrender control when the crisis is over.

Populism plays a huge part in US politics. It's the way the elections are set up. It resembles more of a game show or stand up comedy than a series of actual debates or discussions about issues and how to solve them. Snappy comebacks, one-liners and charisma are the most valued aspects, which is ridiculous. It breeds populism. It almost demands candidates be populist, because it's the only way to get popular and get voters. Eight years ago, Obama was also a populist. The difference was Obama was a messenger of hope, while Trump is a messenger of war. Obama got shut down by congress, and so will Trump if he wins the election. Trump doesn't have a Nazi party behind him like Hitler did, so drawing parallels to Germany in the 1930's is pointless. Hitler was just an element of that. The only way everything will truly get fucked up is if people decide to kill democracy just to cockblock Trump. That will come back to bite Americans in the ass [b]so hard[/b] in the future. You can not possibly believe that is a good idea. You're essentially cutting out your own tongue.

[QUOTE=Moronic;49964322]It would be the death of the GOP if they tried to stop Trump. They suppressed the populist element of their party for too long and now it's manifested suddenly, not even affording the opportunity for a controlled opposition. They can either lose control of their party willingly or go down painfully.[/QUOTE] The GOP establishment has created their own demise by spending the last 20 years (and especially the last 4-8 years) whipping up their voterbase into an angry mob against liberals/democrats, figuring that this would be the best way to ensure loyalty and high turnout. Which worked, but the party made unrealistic promises about what they'd be able to achieve if voted into power and completely failed to deliver (specifically, what would happen if they gained control of the house of representatives), leaving the voterbase disillusioned with GOP leadership and ripe for a calculated hijack by someone like Trump. At this point, the establishment is finished either way. They can surrender the party to Trump, or nominate someone else and get ripped apart by the mob they themselves created. And I got to say, seeing as they probably dragged America back 20 years in a failed bid for political power, this really couldn't be happening to anyone who deserves it more.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;49963724]Godwin once again[/QUOTE] [B]----> GODWIN'S LAW IS NOT A FALLACY, IT IS A PREDICTOR OF ONLINE ARGUMENTS <----[/B] Please, PLEASE STOP throwing around Godwin's Law like it actually means anything in terms of an argument, because it doesn't. At least read the wikipedia article on Godwin's Law

If Trump wins the primaries and the GOP decides against him, they will destroy themselves for good. The entire voterbase will then see them as anti-democratic.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963458]I don't give a shit how close to pseudo-democratic dictatorship level 'approved candidates' we get with this, fucking get Trump out of the race. In this case I will 100% support any level of government or organization flat out banning Trump from running for president, be it the GOP's officials, the senate, the house, whoever and whatever. Get this thing out of the running.[/QUOTE] I'm sure that would't spark a gigantic shitstorm at all [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963491]The world is not black and white as you are trying to paint it.[/QUOTE] We're talking about democratic principles. There's no wiggle room here.

What's the end game here of removing trump from the running by force? Expecting his supporters to just forget that their candidate was forcibly removed the running? The plurality that keeps voting for him is just gonna die out?

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49964480][B]----> GODWIN'S LAW IS NOT A FALLACY, IT IS A PREDICTOR OF ONLINE ARGUMENTS <----[/B] Please, PLEASE STOP throwing around Godwin's Law like it actually means anything in terms of an argument, because it doesn't. At least read the wikipedia article on Godwin's Law[/QUOTE] The point od godwins law is that it's easy to compare something to what is universally seen as big bad to make your point seem more valid. It's not a fallacy, but that doesn't mean it's not bad.

[QUOTE=proch;49964755]The point od godwins law is that it's easy to compare something to what is universally seen as big bad to make your point seem more valid. It's not a fallacy, but that doesn't mean it's not bad.[/QUOTE] yeah but it's not a fallacy because otherwise you could make no comparisons to Hitler or the Nazi party, ever. because even if it is appropriate, you get some complete dip going "GODWIN'S LAW LOL" [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] anything when compared to anything inappropriately is bad hitler and the nazi party is no exception, but godwin's law literally means nothing [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] you're either saying "don't make comparisons that aren't legitimate" which is completely fucking obvious, or "don't make comparisons to hitler or the nazi party" which is complete nonsense

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963476]No. Fascism is what Trump is selling and somehow getting the majority of working class to eat out of his hands like starving cattle. [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] Our entire system of government needs an overhaul regardless of the outcome of this election. If the GOP forcing Trump out of the running sparks that necessary overhaul then I'm all for it. Even then just removing him from the running is good enough. He is a MASSIVE threat to the stability of our country. There is no way in hell he will do any good for this nation, none whatsoever.[/QUOTE] On one hand, if the people want Trump then it should be Turmp. On the other hand, if the people want Trump and don't get Trump, it proves that our vote is actually meaningless once and for all

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963472]I said [i]in this case[/i] Trump is by no means at all fit for presidency. He's using the same exact tactics that Hitler used during his rise to power to whip the working class in America into a frenzied hatred of the WRONG groups of people when their anger should be directed up towards the government itself and the corporations holding them down. It's not just classic Weimar Republic tactics but also classic classist diversionary tactics used by corporate bigwigs. Keep the working class fighting over the crumbs so they don't realize you're sitting in the corner of the room with the entire cake stuffing your face. He NEEDS to be stopped. People don't realize what the fuck is going on. I never thought it'd happen but we forgot history and forgot what happened in post WWI Germany. If we leave it up to the people to realize they're fucking up, Trump will be in a 2nd term.[/QUOTE] So he is basically Hitler reincarnated because he is against illegal immigration and actually wants to stop it? Come the fuck on

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;49963439]Representative democracy kind of fucking falls apart when it's used to govern >300 million people. Unfortunately it's also the best thing we know that isn't hopefully-benevolent tyranny.[/QUOTE] If we had 300+ million votes maybe but the problem is we are at what, 30% turnout or something? [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Adarrek;49964919]So he is basically Hitler reincarnated because he is against illegal immigration and actually wants to stop it? Come the fuck on[/QUOTE] Hes very bad at business, very impulsive (which is partly why he's had so many questionable businesses) he doesn't obey any limits or laws because hrs always been able to change them or sue them into his favor, and importantly he doesn't want the office to lead, he wants the office as a trophy. He has 0 experience in government and the cabinet he has proposed wont have any experience either.

I don't like Trump, but they better not stop him this way, at all. Fuck that, I rather live in a democracy for 4 years where nothing happens since no one listens to him then a fascist state.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;49965296]I don't like Trump, but they better not stop him this way, at all. Fuck that, I rather live in a democracy for 4 years where nothing happens since no one listens to him then a fascist state.[/QUOTE] "let the fascist into office, im sure nothing will happen" is a pretty dangerous midnset

[QUOTE=V12US;49964409]Populism plays a huge part in US politics. It's the way the elections are set up. It resembles more of a game show or stand up comedy than a series of actual debates or discussions about issues and how to solve them. Snappy comebacks, one-liners and charisma are the most valued aspects, which is ridiculous. It breeds populism. It almost demands candidates be populist, because it's the only way to get popular and get voters. Eight years ago, Obama was also a populist. The difference was Obama was a messenger of hope, while Trump is a messenger of war. Obama got shut down by congress, and so will Trump if he wins the election. Trump doesn't have a Nazi party behind him like Hitler did, so drawing parallels to Germany in the 1930's is pointless. Hitler was just an element of that. The only way everything will truly get fucked up is if people decide to kill democracy just to cockblock Trump. That will come back to bite Americans in the ass [b]so hard[/b] in the future. You can not possibly believe that is a good idea. You're essentially cutting out your own tongue.[/QUOTE] That's why I compare him closer to Andrew Jackson rather than say Hitler. [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] He hates a particular race, he's riding on popular vote, the establishment hates him and he's gonna trample all over the constitution.

[QUOTE=Judas;49965305]"let the fascist into office, im sure nothing will happen" is a pretty dangerous midnset[/QUOTE] You do know that the president doesn't have all the power right? and congress can and will overwrite his decisions.

[QUOTE=Judas;49965305]"let the fascist into office, im sure nothing will happen" is a pretty dangerous midnset[/QUOTE] "Prevent the democratic process based on a hypothetical" seems like an even more dangerous mindset to me. Plenty of checks and balances out there to prevent a bad president from enacting his lunacy (Senate, Congress, etc), not so much for when political parties start ignoring their voters and choosing who they want.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;49965467]You do know that the president doesn't have all the power right? and congress can and will overwrite his decisions.[/QUOTE] Republican Congress, Republican executive office, and possibly Republican court... No he would have pretty good reign

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49964817]yeah but it's not a fallacy because otherwise you could make no comparisons to Hitler or the Nazi party, ever. because even if it is appropriate, you get some complete dip going "GODWIN'S LAW LOL" [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] anything when compared to anything inappropriately is bad hitler and the nazi party is no exception, but godwin's law literally means nothing [editline]19th March 2016[/editline] you're either saying "don't make comparisons that aren't legitimate" which is completely fucking obvious, or "don't make comparisons to hitler or the nazi party" which is complete nonsense[/QUOTE] I'm saying don't make lazy and ridiculously strechy comparisons and actually come up with a good point

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963592]It most certainly is a two-way street. You can very easily disqualify candidates like Trump with one simple and single addition to the qualifications. "No candidate to the office of the President of the United States may during any portion of their running for office nor during tenure incite any form of hate speech or defamation against another race, class, creed, sexual orientation, disability, etc. Doing so immediately disqualifies the individual from candidacy to the position and, if already elected, will result in immediate impeachment proceedings" Bam. It's not setting a malevolent precedent.[/QUOTE] There are so many things wrong with this. First, you have to define hate speech. The United States doesn't have hate speech laws, and rightfully so. The reason this is a good thing is because its entirely subjective. Hate is like offense, its determination is taken, not given. This creates massive problems in that the accused and the accuser can read completely different intentions into words. Is calling to ban Muslims from entering the country hate speech? On what grounds do you say this? What unchanging definition are you using? Aside from the dumb hate speech amendment you proposed to the presidential qualifications, how can you not see what a slippery slope this is? What's from stopping us from next putting in a clause that says "all presidential candidates must uphold the values of Capitalism"? Whats from stopping us from putting in all sorts of agenda-driven qualifications?

the number of fascists in this thread is scaring the everloving shit out of me i'm pretty sure temporarily stopping immigration from potential threats isn't what hitler did. i'm pretty sure he enforced immigration from other countries solely for the purpose of slaughter

I'm not that worried about a Trump presidency tbh. He'll be a complete embarrassment, but considering the US government is deliberately designed to not be efficient (correct me if i'm wrong, but I distinctly recall the checks and balances being designed specifically to slow things down so dumb shit doesn't get fast-tracked), his damage will be limited. The GOP aren't going to bow to his whim just because he wins the presidency, they'll block him like they blocked Obama, or at least the catastrophically dumb stuff even they disagree with. Well, unless it gets bad enough amongst the electorate that anti-Trump reps and senators get ousted in elections for pro-Trump candidates.

[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;49963491]The world is not black and white as you are trying to paint it. I support such an action when there is no clearer alternative course to preventing what will assuredly be the complete destabilization of our nation. I hate Hillary with a passion too. I think she's a god awful human being and also a terrible choice for president. Am I advocating the Democratic committee kick her out of the running? No. I'm not. Am I saying it should be commonplace? No. I'm not. I'm saying for Donald Trump, it should be at least heavily considered that he be blocked from running for president.[/QUOTE] It is, when you're talking about overruling the established democratic process because you're upset about a man in a toupee. You don't get to pick and choose when you break the rules of politics. If you're allowed to disqualify Trump, the same argument could be used to disqualify your preferred candidate as well.

Months ago, when Carson was still 2nd, I said that the GOP hates all the candidates except Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, and Jon Kasich. I said that if Trump's steam is still going by 2016, the RNC will go with a brokered deal. "You're crazy!" said those around me. "It would political suicide! DNC 1968!" they told me. Who's crazy now??? I fucking knew it. GOP is dead. GG RNC

It would seem the consensus in this thread is that Trump is a fascist who can be rightfully compared to Hitler. Please, can someone provide one piece of evidence that Trump is a fascist, or a racist, or a sexist, or anything else? Even if we completely ignore the vastly different conditions of today and of the Weimar Republic, Trump and Hitler are nothing alike. It would seem to me that you're all just regurgitating angry op-ed pieces from the Huffington Post

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;49965467]You do know that the president doesn't have all the power right? and congress can and will overwrite his decisions.[/QUOTE] People seem to forget that. FDR of all people tried to overstep his powers through shit like court packing and all the executive actions he had to sign. He was well on the way to a benevolent dictatorship with a fourth term. He still had to fight tooth and nail with Congress. Was he wrong with his approach to the depression? No, emergency job and relief programs were just what we needed to put people to work and get money flowing during economic downtime. Doesn't change the fact he had to overstep his boundaries.

It's always fascinating how people try to associate people they don't like with scary things like "Hilter" while advocating equal or worse means that the Nazi party used to fix their perceived issues. I don't like Trump, but I'm a little more than sold on the fact that he's playing a stage-act and won't hop into the White House hotseat to turn into a spinning whirlwind of aimless racism and sinkhole projects. The fact that many of his views on broad issues are inline with Cruz, despite how much the GoP is kicking and screaming is hilarious in its' own right. I don't like Hillary, but despite the fact that she's basically a crook footlong impaled by the corporate sector and backed by the silly rehashed pandering people skew of "you have to vote for her or trump wins!!!" (unless Bernie goes nuclear or something, but that's basically a null chance.) And yet, I don't think she'll jump in the hotseat either and be anything more than a slightly worse Obama 2.0. People need to take a step back to reality. America's actual political spectrum is extremely narrow - it's boring to the extent that we have to call people the next Hitler/Stalin/Mao/etc to keep it interesting because they'll be anything but. You flip a few "no, i don't to support" to "yes" and suddenly any Democrat would be a Republican or vice versa.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for more of the same at a time when more of the same just means dragging the country down that much longer. A vote for Trump is a gamble on either more of the same or hopefully-impeachable crazy held back by Congress--nobody can really tell this early exactly what a Trump Presidency will be like in practice. A vote for Bernie is a vote for steering the country into the right direction while being held back by Congress. The system is slowly breaking down and has been for years, but throwing the principles of democracy out the window because you don't like a candidate won't solve anything.

[QUOTE=proch;49965551]I'm saying don't make lazy and ridiculously strechy comparisons and actually come up with a good point[/QUOTE] cool, so point 1 which I said was "completely fucking obvious"

[QUOTE=Doom14;49966226]It's always fascinating how people try to associate people they don't like with scary things like "Hilter" while advocating equal or worse means that the Nazi party used to fix their perceived issues. I don't like Trump, but I'm a little more than sold on the fact that he's playing a stage-act and won't hop into the White House hotseat to turn into a spinning whirlwind of aimless racism and sinkhole projects. The fact that many of his views on broad issues are inline with Cruz, despite how much the GoP is kicking and screaming is hilarious in its' own right. I don't like Hillary, but despite the fact that she's basically a crook footlong impaled by the corporate sector and backed by the silly rehashed pandering people skew of "you have to vote for her or trump wins!!!" (unless Bernie goes nuclear or something, but that's basically a null chance.) And yet, I don't think she'll jump in the hotseat either and be anything more than a slightly worse Obama 2.0. People need to take a step back to reality. America's actual political spectrum is extremely narrow - it's boring to the extent that we have to call people the next Hitler/Stalin/Mao/etc to keep it interesting because they'll be anything but. You flip a few "no, i don't to support" to "yes" and suddenly any Democrat would be a Republican or vice versa.[/QUOTE] In my eyes, a vote for Clinton is essentially voting for corruption, treason, and the destruction of our first and second amendment rights. The amount of shadiness around this woman is simply amazing, and even if I did agree with her in almost any way, shape, or form, I'd still wish for her to be locked up over any of the four federal investigations she's under. Meanwhile, I see Trump as a wildcard. He's undoubtedly got some good ideas, but he's also said some rather odd things. He has a good history of being pro-LGBT and generally unprejudiced (despite media propaganda), but honestly his deportation policy is taking some things too far-- that assuming it isn't a massive exaggeration in hopes of negotiating a middle-ground. Though, I do feel as if his presidency will benefit our economy as well as our employment rate, and I'm fairly satisfied knowing that his decision-making is the byproduct of whatever he legitimately thinks, and not drivel that corporations are paying him to say. And why are people even still talking about Sanders? He's got a third of the vote, and it's not like he's going to start going 2:1 on Clinton any time soon. He'll only be worth talking about of Clinton goes out in handcuffs, and even then I don't think he'll have that many supporters-- rightfully so. He's a massive panderer, but some of his economic ideas are simply eyeroll-worthy, and I feel as if many Americans have realized that.