• Possible Second Coup in Turkey: More info to come.
    97 replies, posted
[QUOTE=AlienCreature;50804304]Greek here. There are absolutely no references to 'Istanbul' in any of our school material at any class, and everyone around here refers to it as Constantinople, including our media and politicians.[/QUOTE] A lot of German media censors Nazi history, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen. Just because your government doesnt recognize a name change doesnt make your government any less petty and childish. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Native Hunter;50804344]I don't think anyone does it to shit on the Turkish government lol, I think a lot of people do it to acknowledge the history and heritage it had being called Constantinople. I mean if you want to call people children for referring to something by its Historical name then that's your problem but in all honesty it's in recognition of the City during its time of being called Constantinople not to just bash at the Turkish Government; that's idiotic.[/QUOTE] Again, a name change doesnt diminish, remove, or nullify a places history or heritage. Its petty to call it that. I will also refer to my earlier Persia example.
[QUOTE=AlienCreature;50804304]Greek here. [b]There are absolutely no references to 'Istanbul' in any of our school material at any class[/b], and everyone around here refers to it as Constantinople, including our media and politicians.[/QUOTE] Why would there be? "Konstantinoupoli" is the greek translation for it. We also refer to Jordan as "Iordania", and Izmir as "Smyrni" doesn't mean that we want to recapture the Achaemenid Empire or Asia Minor or anything. [B]EDIT:[/B] Not to mention that literally no one refers to us as "Hellas", plenty of countries use names derived from the Latin Graecia or the Old Persian Yūnān, that's just how languages evolve. There's nothing revisionist or disrespectful about that.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50804365]A lot of German media censors Nazi history, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen. Just because your government doesnt recognize a name change doesnt make your government any less petty and childish. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] Again, a name change doesnt diminish, remove, or nullify a places history or heritage. Its petty to call it that. I will also refer to my earlier Persia example.[/QUOTE] If you think it's petty man that's on you, kinda hard to argue if something is petty or not since its a matter of opinion so I think Ill leave my argument there, interchangeable names are interchangeable names afterall.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50804365] Just because your government doesnt recognize a name change doesnt make your government any less petty and childish.[/QUOTE] What
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50804365]A lot of German media censors Nazi history, but that doesnt mean it didnt happen. Just because your government doesnt recognize a name change doesnt make your government any less petty and childish. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] Again, a name change doesnt diminish, remove, or nullify a places history or heritage. Its petty to call it that. I will also refer to my earlier Persia example.[/QUOTE] i took a course of world war 2 history from the side of russia some time ago. Through the time i spent both watching and reading about the state of the jews, and those in the gulags, made it much clearer that the first step to erasure of history is the changing of the name of history. imagine one day where all records of Constantinople were expunged of the name, and replaced with Istanbul- that would make it hard for people to realise that the city was named after Constantine the great, and begin to erode his meaning, his efforts, and why the city was named after him. they might assume that he was nobody important. When the jews in the second world war went to the camps, they didn't have a name, but a number instead. if the nazis were able to expunge the entire population of those people there, and we only had a number, we would know nothing about them, and for most of those who died in the camps, that's the truth. records don't exist for 2476114, but they do for Andrew Goldberg. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=phaedon;50804370]Why would there be? "Konstantinoupoli" is the greek translation for it. We also refer to Jordan as "Iordania", and Izmir as "Smyrni" doesn't mean that we want to recapture the Achaemenid Empire or Asia Minor or anything. [B]EDIT:[/B] Not to mention that literally no one refers to us as "Hellas", plenty of countries use names derived from the Latin Graecia or the Old Persian Yūnān, that's just how languages evolve. There's nothing revisionist or disrespectful about that.[/QUOTE] My greek professor actually calls us all hellens and the greek area the hellas. a lot of people in the academic world over here do actually.
[QUOTE=download;50803538]While I think most people overestimate the security of PALS, it's not that simple. Nuclear weapons require microsecond timing in the primary, something that can't be achieved with ductape and detcord.[/QUOTE] Not that I disagree with you, but you could probably make a relatively nasty dirty bomb out of it without too much effort. Assuming of course it didn't blow up in your face due to anti tampering stuff.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50804439]Not that I disagree with you, but you could probably make a relatively nasty dirty bomb out of it without too much effort. Assuming of course it didn't blow up in your face due to anti tampering stuff.[/QUOTE] Dirty bombs are massively over hyped. Not to mention there is nothing in a nuclear weapon in a large enough quantity and with a short enough half-life to make a viable weapon.
[QUOTE=download;50804461]Dirty bombs are massively over hyped. Not to mention there is nothing in a nuclear weapon in a large enough quantity and with a short enough half-life to make a viable weapon.[/QUOTE] Dirty bombs are only overhyped in the fact that people think that a detonation at ground level would have any effect on the population three miles away. the real danger is airborne dirty bombs. plutonium can kill relatively fast and horribly in particular, as well as uranium if it was dispersed high enough up, about the height of a commercial jet or airline.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50804479]Dirty bombs are only overhyped in the fact that people think that a detonation at ground level would have any effect on the population three miles away. the real danger is airborne dirty bombs. plutonium can kill relatively fast and horribly in particular, [I]as well as uranium if it was dispersed high enough up, about the height of a commercial jet or airline.[/QUOTE] [/I] That's complete rubbish. You drop HEU or Pu239 from an aircraft at cruising altitude and it will scatter over hundreds of square kilometers. The LD50 for Pu239 is ~0.5mg/kg which is about the same as Sarin which also can't be sprayed at cruising altitude.
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;50804396]If you think it's petty man that's on you, kinda hard to argue if something is petty or not since its a matter of opinion so I think Ill leave my argument there, interchangeable names are interchangeable names afterall.[/QUOTE] Andy argument is that the names are not interchangeable. Thats not up for debate. Istanbul is Istanbul.
[QUOTE=download;50804502][/I] That's complete rubbish. You drop HEU or Pu239 from an aircraft at cruising altitude and it will scatter over hundreds of square kilometers. The LD50 for Pu239 is ~0.5mg/kg which is about the same as Sarin which also can't be sprayed at cruising altitude.[/QUOTE] Never said anything about a drop, but an explosion would spread it pretty far. and it would still kill or make a lot of people sick.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50804508]Andy argument is that the names are not interchangeable. Thats not up for debate. Istanbul is Istanbul.[/QUOTE] If I were to say Constantinople you'd know its Istanbul, and vice versa. Thats literally what Interchangeable is because its refering to the same thing.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50804509]Never said anything about a drop, but an explosion would spread it pretty far. and it would still kill or make a lot of people sick.[/QUOTE] Spreading it further makes it even less potent as a weapon.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50804428]i took a course of world war 2 history from the side of russia some time ago. Through the time i spent both watching and reading about the state of the jews, and those in the gulags, made it much clearer that the first step to erasure of history is the changing of the name of history. imagine one day where all records of Constantinople were expunged of the name, and replaced with Istanbul- that would make it hard for people to realise that the city was named after Constantine the great, and begin to erode his meaning, his efforts, and why the city was named after him. they might assume that he was nobody important. When the jews in the second world war went to the camps, they didn't have a name, but a number instead. if the nazis were able to expunge the entire population of those people there, and we only had a number, we would know nothing about them, and for most of those who died in the camps, that's the truth. records don't exist for 2476114, but they do for Andrew Goldberg.[/QUOTE] Your argument is that replacing a name with a number diminishes its history and significance, no? Reasonable enough but this really only applies to people. Istanbuls name is not "City 17" or something like that. The city was given a new name, which by this point has its own history and heritage. Nobody is censoring Constantinople from history, they just changed the name of the city. Even if Turkey went on a roll with book burning of the regions history, its not like it would disapear. You cant get rid of information on a global scale in this day and age, not with the internet around. If your guys' paranoia is that the history of Constantinople will either be forgotten or censored due to the citys current name being Istanbul, then thats not really a fear founded in reality. Leningrad and Stalingrad have had their names changed but nobody will ever forget what happened in those cities.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;50804089]The W48 is a weird type of implosion device, called by some sources a "linear implosion". It still has a single plutonium "pit" surrounded by shaped charges.[/QUOTE] Found a diagram: [url]http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0510052.pdf[/url] - page 19 It looks like a gun type weapons that has an added ring of he that crushed the two core pieces at the same time as they meet. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] I'm attempting to find a copy of the report that diagram apparently came from.
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;50804344]I don't think anyone does it to shit on the Turkish government lol, I think a lot of people do it to acknowledge the history and heritage it had being called Constantinople. I mean if you want to call people children for referring to something by its Historical name then that's your problem but in all honesty it's in recognition of the City during its time of being called Constantinople not to just bash at the Turkish Government; that's idiotic.[/QUOTE] Nah I think it's an insult. Like, "We'll conquer your city and undo all the changes you made" sorta thing. Like when people say we should start another Crusade and shit.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50804294]And people who call it Constantinople are wrong. A place having its name changed doesnt nullify the history or heritage. Or theyre just acting like petty children because they dont like a name change that happened long before they were born. You dont see people bitching about Persia being renamed to Iran. If you want to shit on the Turkish government, calling a city by the wrong name is not the way to do it[/QUOTE] Well I was just referencing a song for fuck sake
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50804595]Like, "We'll conquer your city and undo all the changes you made" sorta thing.[/QUOTE] Honestly, these kind of things are mostly memes and only seriously supported by nutjobs. The equivalent of people who would support the restoration of the Bourbons or the Habsburgs, or a Jacobite rebellion or something like that. The reality is that Istanbul has a bigger population than Greece and 1/10th the population of Russia. There's no real irredentist threat or anything.
this threads super derailed, but OT: now that the only source are untrustworthy websites, can we just go home now?
[QUOTE=Shalaska;50803405]I know I made a joke about it last time around, but why do people keep calling Istanbul by a name it hasn't had in almost 600 years? I think it's just the stickler in me, but it seems really strange.[/QUOTE] Uh it was still commonly called Constantinople in the early 20th century. Even the Turks would still use the name Kostantiniyye.
Coup vol.2: argue about city names and detonators
[QUOTE=Shalaska;50803405]I know I made a joke about it last time around, but why do people keep calling Istanbul by a name it hasn't had in almost 600 years? I think it's just the stickler in me, but it seems really strange.[/QUOTE] I guess people just like it better this way
They'll never be able to get the nukes because doing so would involve them raiding an active US military base, which would be considered an act of war.
[QUOTE=download;50804578]Found a diagram: [url]http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0510052.pdf[/url] - page 19 It looks like a gun type weapons that has an added ring of he that crushed the two core pieces at the same time as they meet. [editline]31st July 2016[/editline] I'm attempting to find a copy of the report that diagram apparently came from.[/QUOTE] It differs from a gun-type design in that it has a single plutonium pit at the center, which is compressed by a surrounding cylinder of shaped charges. In a gun-type design, there would be two subcritical masses of uranium at either end of a metal cylinder, with one or both being fired at the other by simple high explosives.
People like to call it Constantinople because we are westerners and we follow the lineage of our culture all the way back to Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire. Istanbul sounds Turkish and foreign to us so we don't like it and we'd rather call it the name more associated with our culture. That is the real reason and we all know it. Stop with this dumb, evasive conversation.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50806467]People like to call it Constantinople because we are westerners and we follow the lineage of our culture all the way back to Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire. Istanbul sounds Turkish and foreign to us so we don't like it and we'd rather call it the name more associated with our culture. That is the real reason and we all know it. Stop with this dumb, evasive conversation.[/QUOTE] Constantinople just sounds Italian. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Istanbul#Old_Norse"]Miklagård[/URL] sounds more at home.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50804508]Andy argument is that the names are not interchangeable. Thats not up for debate. Istanbul is Istanbul.[/QUOTE] We can call it whatever the hell we want. End of story. This shouldn't even need to be an argument- the city's name is objectively subjective.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50807124]We can call it whatever the hell we want. End of story.[/QUOTE] Maybe if you want to keep repeating the same western mantra that Turkey is not European. Referring to Istanbul as Constantinople is just a remnant of the xenophobic tenancies prevalent in old-timey christian Europe and continuing to do so is just perpetuating the same smug attitude of Turkish illegitimacy for a conflict that happened centuries ago and yet for some reason despite hundreds of years of economic and cultural exchange still triggers the pogrom reflex some folks seem to suffer with. Trying to justify this behavior is just being ignorant and perpetuating the same bitter or outright hateful attitude your ancestors had towards the Turks and will continue to foster disdain from them towards you.
The topic of this thread is a maybe coupe situation, not the name of a city or how nukes work. Stay on topic.
I don't think this is a coup. Even if the reports of sealing off a military base is true, I don't see how sealing off [I]one[/I] military base will somehow topple the government and put the military in charge.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.