Anti-porn group decries Fifty Shade's of Grey's 'violent' massage.
83 replies, posted
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;45498783]What are you talking about? Who cares? Its a fictional book, its goal is to entertain and tell a story.
Do we need to start strictly censoring all of our literary works because god forbid someone interprets them as factual accounts of reality? That's a strawman argument that sets up a reader who can't distinguish fiction and reality. When in reality people just want to read an interesting story, not learn the ins and outs of a successful and safe BDSM relationship. That's bad writing to have zero conflict.[/QUOTE]
My recommendation of a good BDSM story? A comic I saw on DeviantArt called Sunstone. Characters have flaws, express grief in mistakes, and show conflict in their relationships and what they want from it, and as well showing certain positive aspects of BDSM without wasting time drilling through safe words, limits, precautions, etc., but, like I said, it still uses them in the story, because that's just what BDSM needs.
As long as the violence is consensual and within the bedroom only, I don't see a problem with it. I've involved myself in the kink community and the couples I know from those experiences are generally more stable than any other couple so I think S&M is a good thing for a relationship if anything.
[QUOTE=Korova;45498976]As long as the violence is consensual and within the bedroom only, I don't see a problem with it. I've involved myself in the kink community and the couples I know from those experiences are generally more stable than any other couple so I think S&M is a good thing for a relationship if anything.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=codemaster85;45495975]The main reason why its terrible isn't because they freely show an bdsm relationship, its because it shows everything you don't do in one. The whole sexual relationship with bdsm is based around trust, which the dude breaks constantly. You also do aftercare which again he doesn't do. Its an extremely unhealthy relationship that is bad for teen girls to fantasize about.
Shit apparently one part of the book the dude plants an gps tracker on her purse or something to follow her.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Medevila;45495476]If the trailer is any indication the movie will just be really really softcore BDSM porn
[editline]25th July 2014[/editline]
fun fact, novel started out as a Twilight fan fic if you hadn't heard[/QUOTE]
I think that there will be a good research paper for someone to write when the movie comes out. Topic: Women will READ porn to the point it becomes a hugely successful phenomenon. Men won't read porn to that extent, what was the last written porn success among men? Men will WATCH porn even to point of paying for it. Women won't watch porn to that extent, what was last successful video porn that mostly women paid for?
If my theory holds true this movie, regardless of quality, will not be a blockbuster. Women will see it on the first weekend, but it won't satisfy them in the way the written story does. Men on dates will see it, but it won't satisfy them the way porn does(being softcore). So I think outside of a big opening weekend it'll be limper than (insert penis pun here).
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;45498783]Do we need to start strictly censoring all of our literary works because god forbid someone interprets them as factual accounts of reality? [B]That's a strawman argument that sets up a reader who can't distinguish fiction and reality.[/B][/QUOTE]
For the last three decades, 40% or more of this country's voting population believed that humanity was created in current form by a deity with no evolutionary process involved. This sentiment only exists because of fictional works and spoken performances thereof.
You vastly overestimate the abilities of the average man to distinguish overwrought hokum from reality.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;45499241]Women will READ porn to the point it becomes a hugely successful phenomenon. Men won't read porn to that extent, what was the last written porn success among men? Men will WATCH porn even to point of paying for it. Women won't watch porn to that extent, what was last successful video porn that mostly women paid for?[/QUOTE]
This is a McNamara fallacy. You're using conveniently measured data to the exclusion of variables that might entirely ruin your concept and are harder (or nigh-impossible) to accurately measure.
-Men might read a ton of porn that's not published as an erotica novel such as through websites, blogs, small magazines, etc. and thus has no associated sales data.
-Women might watch a ton of porn that's provided by small amateur clip sites or independent publishers with no publisher-reported sales data.
There's a myth that arousal correlates more with visual stimulus in men than in women, which is difficult to say means anything because our scientific definition of "arousal" is so vague [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811244/]subjective arousal in women doesn't quite correlate with physiological arousal.[/url] So your "theory" hinges on the same type of statistical misunderstanding radio execs used to say the internet was musically irrelevant in the 90s and a concept that's scientifically tenuous. Don't bet money on it.
When there's a demand for something, someone will step up and supply if only to profit from it. If the profits are large, EVERYONE will hear about it. I don't read fiction aimed at women and even I heard about the Fifty Shades success.
It's ludicrous to imply there's a Fifty Shades of Grey level demand among men for written porn except it's so underground no one knows about it. It's just as ludicrous to imply there's a huge amount of women who are watching porn without any one knowing about it and so no one is cashing in on it.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;45500556]It's ludicrous to imply there's a Fifty Shades of Grey level demand among men for written porn except it's so underground no one knows about it.[/QUOTE]
I can tell you you're full of shit without making a contradictory claim. Ludicrous is assuming people have perfect economic information and that errors of measurement do not occur regularly due to bias of those making the measurements.
Nielsen, the media research company, long believed internet music could have nowhere near the use of physical radio. They believed that for about a solid fucking decade. Then, eventually, a large number of streaming companies and direct album download sites made them realize they were fucking up by the numbers because of their prior assumptions.
You are are making really terrible assumptions, and you should realize they're silly.
[QUOTE=Megadave;45495468][url]http://www.freep.com/article/20140725/ENT01/307250072/-Fifty-Shades-anti-porn-group-protest[/url]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA[/QUOTE]
"I SOMEHOW DIDN'T READ OR HEAR ABOUT THIS BOOK AND I'M SHOCKED AND DISGUSTED CHARACTERS IN A FICTIONAL STORY AREN'T PERFECT STEREOTYPICAL ROMEOS AND JULIETS"
That's how I imagine if they had to explain it in truth.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;45498811]Most of the consent is established post-act (if at all), and no boundaries are ever agreed before hand.
It's basically not at all like how BDSM is practised amongst the actual community for it, and it is far more like abuse given a shiny coat of paint.[/QUOTE]
That's even worse than I thought.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45495730][url]http://www.fiftyshadesgenerator.com/[/url][/QUOTE]
When he removed his cunt stretcher from my fart valve, he was pleasantly surprised to see a stink pickle staring back as him. He knew I couldn't wait to suck the colon cobra off his washington monument. Within no time, I could feel the shitty man fat seeping from my tradesman's entrance and all over my purple cabbage. With my furburger now much like a shot cat, he thought it was time to start sliding my other vagina. Is now the time to tell him I really need to arc a footlong fudge bullet, I wondered? He munched on my piss flaps, even though I'd had the painters in for the best part of a week. If I don't fish for pearls to get my minge monsoon frothing from my moose knuckle, his master of ceremonies is going to leave my clap flaps resembling a stamped bat.
This is amazing.
Ha! Butt Plugs!
I'm just glad that this group is striking while the iron is hot.
While I haven't read the book, if what I've heard is true, I can see a problem with it being many people's only exposure to BDSM at all, and it just being fucking awfully written.
But showing unsafe/nonconsensual practices? It's a fantasy.
People who enjoy rape fantasies usually fantasise about, you know, rape, not actually consensual rape roleplay, even though that's the only thing they'd actually want to do in real life.
-snip-
I like how people say that women don't enjoy pornography when books like this are the best selling novels for months on end and get movies.
[QUOTE]Hawkins is reviving the issue, noting that the “Fifty Shades” story sends all sorts of wrong messages: “A warning to the women lining up to see this film: There is nothing empowering about whips and chains or humiliation and torture. Women as a group will not gain power by collaborating with violent men. Women would be serving only as an agent to further their own sexual degradation, handing themselves on a silver platter to exactly the sort of men who want to use and abuse them, and take away their power.”[/QUOTE]
Feminism combined with that religious conservatism.
The largest threat to porn.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;45505313]While I haven't read the book, if what I've heard is true, I can see a problem with it being many people's only exposure to BDSM at all, and it just being fucking awfully written.
But showing unsafe/nonconsensual practices? It's a fantasy.
People who enjoy rape fantasies usually fantasise about, you know, rape, not actually consensual rape roleplay, even though that's the only thing they'd actually want to do in real life.[/QUOTE]
My issue with it is less that it portrays rape and more the fact that it could give the illusion that BDSM and/or alternative sexual lifestyles [B]require[/B] non-consensual interaction in order to be correct or enjoyable, which is the absolute antithesis of those kinds of sexual play.
When you give the sexual control to a dominant, you're putting the utmost trust in them to do what you've agreed on and you're still allowed the utmost control at the end of the day.. whereas the portrayal of BDSM as something that [B]requires[/B] or immediately entails non-consensual interaction is fucking despicable and shows an absolute lack of knowledge of what actually goes on.
My concern and criticism is that it could easily be taken as misinformation, and lead to actual problems for people in the future. I'm all for the division of fantasy and reality, but when people's only experience of something is through fiction, they tend to trust what they've learned in fiction.
Before someone calls slippery slope: This doesn't apply to genuine violence because we see violence consistently in both real and unreal scenarios, and almost nobody has gone through life without seeing a depiction of violence that enables them to make the distinction between what is correct and what is incorrect. Not everyone will know how BDSM or dominant fantasy works, and so they can easily get a misappropriated image from Fifty Shades, which I think is pretty bad and irresponsible.
You can still have flawed characters while keeping the practices themselves mostly consensual and safe (which sets a good precedent for the readers), or if one of the characters is acting like a massive douchebag and breaking the core conduct rules by doing stuff the other person isn't comfortable with, you can show them in a bad light while still sending the message that safety is important
[QUOTE=gk99;45502635]"I SOMEHOW DIDN'T READ OR HEAR ABOUT THIS BOOK AND I'M SHOCKED AND DISGUSTED CHARACTERS IN A FICTIONAL STORY AREN'T PERFECT STEREOTYPICAL ROMEOS AND JULIETS"
That's how I imagine if they had to explain it in truth.[/QUOTE]Ah, Romeo and Juliet. Truly the gold standard of healthy romantic relationships.
I've never read 50 Shades nor do I plan to, does the series have any women in dominant roles at all? If not I can definitely see why certain groups, feminist groups especially, would take issue with it. Spend 5 minutes around the BDSM scene at all and you'll quickly see that the stereotype that women are the submissive ones is wildly inaccurate. It's why you hear about professional dominatrixes but not so much about professional... male version of that word.
Having a relatively mainstream book painting kink (generally progressive communities) with a conservative brush would definitely anger people.
[QUOTE=Pennywise;45511980]Ah, Romeo and Juliet. Truly the gold standard of healthy romantic relationships.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://puu.sh/asRSr/65adc2d5e6.png[/img]
Romeo and Juliet is one of those stories that's better and more romantic when you haven't read/seen it.
[QUOTE=Impact1986;45495678]There are also women who have rape fantasies
I wonder if feminists are gonna start a shit storm about that movie just like they did with Robin Thicke[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Impact1986;45511717]4. Better not be a white straight male or the social justice league will complain[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45512312]I've never read 50 Shades nor do I plan to, does the series have any women in dominant roles at all? If not I can definitely see why certain groups, feminist groups especially, would take issue with it. Spend 5 minutes around the BDSM scene at all and you'll quickly see that the stereotype that women are the submissive ones is wildly inaccurate. It's why you hear about professional dominatrixes but not so much about professional... male version of that word.
Having a relatively mainstream book painting kink (generally progressive communities) with a conservative brush would definitely anger people.[/QUOTE]
Nope, from what I know only Christian Grey is the only dominant one and all the women are submissive, along with the previously mentioned borderline rape scenes and unsafe BDSM practices.
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