• UK parliament will hold a debate on cannabis legalisation on 12 October in response to e-petition
    86 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48661794]They use education, legalization, and regulation to control it. It's a massive success compared to our attempts with prohibition which empower criminal cartels.[/QUOTE] Consider me convinced then.
[QUOTE=cody8295;48661618]What about in Portugal? They decriminalized drug use, addiction plummeted[/QUOTE] Most drugs in Portugal are still illegal though, including cannabis. Most of the improvements in health are largely a result of the shift in considering drug users as patients rather than criminals. The gains that have been made do not require legalization. Certainly a positive case can be made for decriminalization of various drugs and a shift towards a health-centered view, but there is still no case for legalizing drugs such as heroin or cocaine. Many authorities in Portugal still consider drugs an overall net-negative. For instance, people caught with a gram of hashish for instance are still fined or given a strict talking-to about the risks of drugs. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48661794]They use education, legalization, and regulation to control it. It's a massive success compared to our attempts with prohibition which empower criminal cartels.[/QUOTE] None of the drugs there have been legalized. Even medical marijuana is illegal in Portugal, and it is also illegal to own or grow marijuana plants.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48662379]Most drugs in Portugal are still illegal though, including cannabis. Most of the improvements in health are largely a result of the shift in considering drug users as patients rather than criminals. The gains that have been made do not require legalization. Certainly a positive case can be made for decriminalization of various drugs and a shift towards a health-centered view, but there is still no case for legalizing drugs such as heroin or cocaine. Many authorities in Portugal still consider drugs an overall net-negative. For instance, people caught with a gram of hashish for instance are still fined or given a strict talking-to about the risks of drugs. None of the drugs there have been legalized. Even medical marijuana is illegal in Portugal, and it is also illegal to own or grow marijuana plants.[/QUOTE] there's a difference between decriminalization and legalization, personally I think legalization is the best method of preventing drug abuse and drug crime. It's legal to possess less than 10-days supply of any drug in portugal iirc.
[QUOTE=cody8295;48662876]there's a difference between decriminalization and legalization, personally I think legalization is the best method of preventing drug abuse and drug crime. It's legal to possess less than 10-days supply of any drug in portugal iirc.[/QUOTE] I think legalization is not going to solve any problems that a health-centered method of treating drug abuse can't solve.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48668641]I think legalization is not going to solve any problems that a health-centered method of treating drug abuse can't solve.[/QUOTE] Really? You probably haven't thought thru the negative effects the black market has on society
[QUOTE=cody8295;48669434]Really? You probably haven't thought thru the negative effects the black market has on society[/QUOTE] The ones that Portugal has tackled fairly successfully?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48669517]The ones that Portugal has tackled fairly successfully?[/QUOTE] Are you opposed to marijuana?
[QUOTE=isreal?;48669720]Are you opposed to marijuana?[/QUOTE] I support decriminalization.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48669907]I support decriminalization.[/QUOTE] Why not legalization? Why should somebody be punished for ingesting cannabinoids?
[QUOTE=isreal?;48670018]Why not legalization? Why should somebody be punished for ingesting cannabinoids?[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand what decriminalization is?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48670038]I don't think you understand what decriminalization is?[/QUOTE] It means its illegal.
Meh, I know what's going to happen. Either shrug the whole thing off at the last minute, or say "no" to legalisation.
[QUOTE=isreal?;48670064]It means its illegal.[/QUOTE] Well yes, but decriminalization entails a number of policies.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48671020]Well yes, but decriminalization entails a number of policies.[/QUOTE] Which would most likely make it illegal to produce meaning I can't grow my own, I am against that. If Jimbob can brew his own beer, I should be able to grow my own pot plants
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48671391]Which would most likely make it illegal to produce meaning I can't grow my own, I am against that. If Jimbob can brew his own beer, I should be able to grow my own pot plants[/QUOTE] Well it's already illegal to produce anyways, so decriminalization isnot going to make matters worse.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48671490]Well it's already illegal to produce anyways, so decriminalization isnot going to make matters worse.[/QUOTE] Oh I know I'm just saying I favour legalization of weed over its decriminalization.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48671499]Oh I know I'm just saying I favour legalization of weed over its decriminalization.[/QUOTE] I'd prefer to decriminalize it and see where things go from there - see if the argument for legalization holds water in the first place after carrying out the major reforms to health and the justice system. I doubt that legalization has many benefits over decriminalization - if any.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48671533]I'd prefer to decriminalize it and see where things go from there - see if the argument for legalization holds water in the first place after carrying out the major reforms to health and the justice system. I doubt that legalization has many benefits over decriminalization - if any.[/QUOTE] Legalization decreases the availability of drugs to children. It also allows the government to regulate the quality of the drugs
[QUOTE=smurfy;48657701]Here's a poll, Britain's views are actually pretty different from the US apparently [t]http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2015-03-19/cannabisint3.PNG[/t][/QUOTE] Right now the US is in the midst of another social revolution, which I think the internet has played a massive role in pealing back many of the common held beliefs and exposing the flat out lies and shaky footings they're built on. It's no surprise that the country went from considering a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage to full legalization of gay marriage in 10 years, a lot of people can see that the propaganda on gays and weed, and many social issues are a bunch of shit, its also probably partially to blame for the current uber polarized politics we have too because both sides have been good at pushing out too much information to overwhelm the undecided There is also the last gasp of the organized Republican conservatives too, as there is still a lot of voters who grew up with the bad Democrats of the late 70s and under the succession of Republicans in the 80s and have deeply entrenched, deeply dated views on the politics of today and will vote out of shear spite because they blame the democrats for everything I do hope Britain does move forward on legalization because our policy will be a reflection of what Britain does on some level, and or maybe Britain copies our current blind-eye, local level stance
[QUOTE=cody8295;48671961]Legalization decreases the availability of drugs to children. It also allows the government to regulate the quality of the drugs[/QUOTE] The Portuguese have made large strides in limiting drug availability to children and have a lot of control too, why not adopt their policies? [editline]13th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;48672360]I do hope Britain does move forward on legalization because our policy will be a reflection of what Britain does on some level, and or maybe Britain copies our current blind-eye, local level stance[/QUOTE] It's a bad idea to advocate a country do something in the hopes it inspires your own country to do it.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48673450]The Portuguese have made large strides in limiting drug availability to children and have a lot of control too, why not adopt their policies? [editline]13th September 2015[/editline] It's a bad idea to advocate a country do something in the hopes it inspires your own country to do it.[/QUOTE] Simple decriminalization doesn't negative effect the black market like legalization.
[QUOTE=cody8295;48674451]Simple decriminalization doesn't negative effect the black market like legalization.[/QUOTE] You'll have to explain the successes that Portugal has had with their drug policy then.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48674597]You'll have to explain the successes that Portugal has had with their drug policy then.[/QUOTE] You already have, since it's decriminalized nobody goes to prison for possessing personal amounts of drugs, therefore drug abusers can get the help they need instead of becoming hardened criminals in jail. They also started a really neat program to make sure nobody uses drugs with used needles, which reduces instances of HIV and aids.
[QUOTE=cody8295;48677267]You already have, since it's decriminalized nobody goes to prison for possessing personal amounts of drugs, therefore drug abusers can get the help they need instead of becoming hardened criminals in jail. They also started a really neat program to make sure nobody uses drugs with used needles, which reduces instances of HIV and aids.[/QUOTE] Well then let's adopt those policies instead of legalization.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48678033]Well then let's adopt those policies instead of legalization.[/QUOTE] My argument is that decriminalization doesn't go far enough. We need to compete directly with the black market to tap into the billions being spend on illicit drugs. If we can do that, crime will drop and we can use the tax revenue for education, drug abuse counseling, law enforcement, and infrastructure.
I want legal weed so I can grow marijuana legally.
[QUOTE=isreal?;48678417]I want legal weed so I can grow marijuana legally.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this. Whether I have a lawn or a flower pot, I'd like to be able to grow my own just for the hell of it
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