It seems like both sides can fall back on the "it makes me uncomfortable" reasoning, which is okay for social interpersonal interactions, but probably not something we should be legislating on.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
I will say though that a lot of the people in this thread afraid of transgender people ending up using the same restroom as them seem to not really understand how restrooms work? I use a public restroom daily and I've managed to never get a face full of genitalia. It's all subjective of course but I'd say that level of discomfort is less realized than the discomfort someone would feel using the restroom meant for a gender they don't even associate with. And like Cone said earlier, what happens when you have someone who has successfully transitioned? Now you have people who look like men with all the tropes of manliness in the womens restroom.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;49769069]It seems like both sides can fall back on the "it makes me uncomfortable" reasoning, which is okay for social interpersonal interactions, but probably not something we should be legislating on.[/QUOTE]
The thing is that its not mild discomfort with trans people. Being outted publicly in the presence of random strangers is actually pretty fucking dangerous
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49769080]The thing is that its not mild discomfort with trans people. Being outted publicly in the presence of random strangers is actually pretty fucking dangerous[/QUOTE]
Which is why I don't think the government should be stepping in and writing laws dictating that people must use the restrooms assigned to the biological sex they were born with.
As far as dealing with individuals I mean there really isn't anything you can do sadly. There are people who are uncomfortable around black people, people who are uncomfortable around gay people, and unfortunately people who are uncomfortable around transgendered people.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49768702]Honestly i cant think of a demographic less likely to start flashing their genitalia at people then transgender people[/QUOTE]
Asexuals. :v:
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769006]I'm not uncomfortable with it at all I'm just saying there are more than likely people that are so how can you say their feelings don't matter? And on that note that trans feelings are more important? Everyone is equally important this is the great thing about America. That's why I'm saying this is an argument that can't be won easily.[/QUOTE]
I'm asking how they would even become uncomfortable without themselves, invading the privacy of another person, in order to find out that person is trans, and then they can become offended.
That seems like a lot of intentional work to be offended so there's no way I'm ever going to say they're as important as the other group because they're seeking out the chance to be offended in that context.
Like i said if you're peaking over stalls to see a persons genitals then that person having plumbing you did not expect to see is the least of your problems. Trans peope do not tend to show their genitalia. Hell, at least for me, its difficult to even look at them at times.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49769055]The difference being that the mild discomfort one may experience from fucking peaking under the stall to see if you have a penis is far less then the emotional discomfort the trans person will experience.
Like ive stated if trans people are not allowed to use the bathroom of their identified gender then where would you have us go? Its foolish to think that everywhere will habe a gender nuetral bathroom and using the bathroom of our assigned sex is actually far more likely to cause an issue then simply letting us use the right bathroom. Where would you jave us go then?
And dont say "this is a difficult argument" because thats a shitty copout response[/QUOTE]
There's no need for profanity for one and two I was just trying to have a civilized conversation. But if you want to be immature about it then it's pointless. But :goodjob: on using your big boy words. You can swear it doesn't make you look tough at all. Good day to you sir :class:
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769337]There's no need for profanity for one and two I was just trying to have a civilized conversation. But if you want to be immature about it then it's pointless. But :goodjob: on using your big boy words. You can swear it doesn't make you look tough at all. Good day to you sir :class:[/QUOTE]
So you cant actually address anything i said to any degree at all and thus concede your point.
Got it. Thanks
Edit: reading over my post my "horrible language" consisted of me saying "fucking" once :v:
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769337]There's no need for profanity for one and two I was just trying to have a civilized conversation. But if you want to be immature about it then it's pointless. But :goodjob: on using your big boy words. You can swear it doesn't make you look tough at all. Good day to you sir :class:[/QUOTE]
Ad Homeniem: the post
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49769346]So you cant actually address anything i said to any degree at all and thus concede your point.
Got it. Thanks[/QUOTE]
I don't care what bathroom you use but others may. It makes no difference to me but some one will always be uncomfortable with it. Which one is right or wrong is beyond me because it just doesn't make me uncomfortable. I don't see how you'll get people to see how you feel easily. Especially with the older generation. So I don't know how you can please everyone without pissing somebody off either way you look at it. That's all I'm saying. The world won't just say "ooh okay you identify as a guy but your originally a girl then go for it" my friend was a girl but is now a guy after treatment. He is doing very well and I think getting people to see that it's not an issue is the difficult part. Not many people have trans friends so they don't all know what it's like to be trans.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;49767079]Every story I hear about women's bathrooms is that that won't stop anything.[/QUOTE]
Only because they hover.
You hover because there is piss on the seats, but there's piss on the seats because you hover.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769407]I don't care what bathroom you use but others may. It makes no difference to me but some one will always be uncomfortable with it. Which one is right or wrong is beyond me because it just doesn't make me uncomfortable. I don't see how you'll get people to see how you feel easily. Especially with the older generation. So I don't know how you can please everyone without pissing somebody off either way you look at it. That's all I'm saying. The world won't just say "ooh okay you identify as a guy but your originally a girl then go for it" my friend was a girl but is now a guy after treatment. He is doing very well and I think getting people to see that it's not an issue is the difficult part. Not many people have trans friends so they don't all know what it's like to be trans.[/QUOTE]
Did you actually read anything I posted? Literally nothing you just said addresses anything I said in that post.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49769177]I'm asking how they would even become uncomfortable without themselves, invading the privacy of another person, in order to find out that person is trans, and then they can become offended.
That seems like a lot of intentional work to be offended so there's no way I'm ever going to say they're as important as the other group because they're seeking out the chance to be offended in that context.[/QUOTE]
If that person actually looks like the gender they identify with then I don't see how you'd ever know. But I think the thing that makes people uncomfortable is when someone claims to be trans but isn't even transitioned or fully transitioned to their identifying gender. That's where the discomfort probably stems from. You'd never know if they were fully transitioned. At least I don't think you would know.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=phygon;49769359]Ad Homeniem: the post[/QUOTE]
Not being able to have a proper conversation like two adults is where I draw the line. Say what you will :v:
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769455]If that person actually looks like the gender they identify with then I don't see how you'd ever know. But I think the thing that makes people uncomfortable is when someone claims to be trans but isn't even transitioned or fully transitioned to their identifying gender. That's where the discomfort probably stems from.[/QUOTE]
Again im forced to ask what you think the solution to this supposed problem is.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769455]
Not being able to have a proper conversation like two adults is where I draw the line. Say what you will :v:[/QUOTE]
I said the word "fucking" once and in a way where no insult or offense could be transferred to the reader of my post. I find it funny that you say I act childish yet you resort to petty ad hominem when someone refutes your argument in a way that you can't actually address.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49768818]What about non transgender people being uncomfortable with this it's not like there's one side to this argument. It's one that can't be won.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;49768859]To be fair, this IS special pandering. Though it's not good that a lot of people would be made uncomfortable, the fact is they WOULD. Why is the comfort of the trans community more important than any other community? This issue is very complex and solutions will not be simple- compromises have to be made (I.E. gender neutral bathrooms).[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure there's a big difference in level - and validity - in "I'm being forced to go into a bathroom where I no longer look like the sex it's meant for, and so I'm being publicly outed as a group that receives a ton of discrimination and hate" and "someone, somewhere in this bathroom, has cooties".
If you just take the discomforts of "I'm not in the right bathroom" and "They're not in the right bathroom", then they cancel out. The issue is more about them being outed as trans.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49769490]Again im forced to ask what you think the solution to this supposed problem is.[/QUOTE]
Who cares if you have a vagina or a penis? If you look like a women in the men's bathroom people are going to say something at some point. Same as a man in a women's bathroom. I don't know the answer to that and I don't have a solution.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769527]I personally would say tough it out till you get your treatment/transition. Who cares if you have a vagina or a penis? If you look like a women in the men's bathroom people are going to say something at some point. Same as a man in a women's bathroom. I don't know the answer to that and I don't have a solution.[/QUOTE]
If you have no answer or solution then what are you even arguing about??? If you have no stance then the only actual point your posts have is to repeatedly reiterate the fact that there are in fact people who are opposed to trans people to which the only answer I have is "no shit??????"
[QUOTE=Last or First;49769509]I'm pretty sure there's a big difference in level - and validity - in "I'm being forced to go into a bathroom where I no longer look like the sex it's meant for, and so I'm being publicly outed as a group that receives a ton of discrimination and hate" and "someone, somewhere in this bathroom, has cooties".
If you just take the discomforts of "I'm not in the right bathroom" and "They're not in the right bathroom", then they cancel out. The issue is more about them being outed as trans.[/QUOTE]
I just don't think there is a right or wrong way to address this. It's like black and white segregation all over again it's stupid. Just do your business and leave.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769455]
Not being able to have a proper conversation like two adults is where I draw the line. Say what you will :v:[/QUOTE]
"You're not being nice" is not a logical nor thoughtful response, especially when the post you're replying to wasn't even being rude.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769550]I just don't think there is a right or wrong way to address this. It's like black and white segregation all over again it's stupid. Just do your business and leave.[/QUOTE]
I dont even get what you're trying to say anymore?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49769543]If you have no answer or solution then what are you even arguing about??? If you have no stance then the only actual point your posts have is to repeatedly reiterate the fact that there are in fact people who are opposed to trans people to which the only answer I have is "no shit??????"[/QUOTE]
I'm all for unisex bathrooms then everyone is equal.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769550]I just don't think there is a right or wrong way to address this. It's like black and white segregation all over again it's stupid. Just do your business and leave.[/QUOTE]
so you'd say there's no "right" or "wrong" way to approach racial segregation...?
What the fuck man
Obviously there's a fucking right way.
Someones being discriminated against. Someone is just using "offense" as a shield. Which one is the right way? It's not hard to figure this out.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769550]I just don't think there is a right or wrong way to address this. It's like black and white segregation all over again it's stupid. Just do your business and leave.[/QUOTE]
I agree, it is stupid. We should allow people to use whichever bathrooms they please.
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769564]I'm all for unisex bathrooms then everyone is equal.[/QUOTE]
Thats literally all you had to say instead of going on this tirade
[QUOTE=apierce1289;49769550]I just don't think there is a right or wrong way to address this. It's like black and white segregation all over again it's stupid. Just do your business and leave.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me could you please clear up what in the [del][B]fuck[/B][/del] poop you mean by there "isn't a right or wrong way" to address [I]racial segregation[/I]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49769566]so you'd say there's no "right" or "wrong" way to approach racial segregation...?
What the fuck man
Obviously there's a fucking right way.
Someones being discriminated against. Someone is just using "offense" as a shield. Which one is the right way? It's not hard to figure this out.[/QUOTE]
No I'm saying this shouldn't even be an issue. Like what's it matter if someone is in the bathroom that doesn't look like they belong in there. People get offended to easily.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49769579]Excuse me could you please clear up what in the [del][B]fuck[/B][/del] poop you mean by there "isn't a right or wrong way" to address [I]racial segregation[/I][/QUOTE]
Like having separate facilities for white and black people was so dumb back when it happened and arguing about who uses what bathroom is dumb too.
I was only trying to point out that somebody will always be uncomfortable and you can't always tell somebody that their feelings aren't important on either side of the fence.
Im genuinely confused now.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
Like what are you even trying to prove or disprove
[QUOTE=Kyle902;49769614]Im genuinely confused now.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
Like what are you even trying to prove or disprove[/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything. I'm saying that there's no sure way to fix this issue and no way to please everyone. Even if you use unisex bathrooms people will still get their panties in a knot.
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