Due to estate tax loophole, Texas oil tycoon passes $9b to his children tax-free - Polidicks

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;22514684]also 55% is laughably low; CT is somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% at that level I believe [editline]03:52PM[/editline] i'd rather they be retarded with spending than allow the development of massive family run monopolies that have the effect of creating massive cleavages in the social population yeah that's kind of a huge issue but they do need to get their shit together[/QUOTE] Ok, hows about we have the government have all the money and have the government give everybody equal amounts of everything, so there is no rich or poor class. Oh wait. Seriously, one side of the argument is comprised of people who have never handled money before, and the other is comprised of people who have actually lived outside their parent's house. To the people saying the tax should be higher or it is deserved, go live on your own. See how much 55% is when you make any amount of money. Thats the government taking more than half of what you earned to irresponsibly spend, especially here in the US where the government spends money it doesn't have.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22514974]Ok, hows about we have the government have all the money and have the government give everybody equal amounts of everything, so there is no rich or poor class. Oh wait. Seriously, one side of the argument is comprised of people who have never handled money before, and the other is comprised of people who have actually lived outside their parent's house. To the people saying the tax should be higher or it is deserved, go live on your own. See how much 55% is when you make any amount of money. Thats the government taking more than half of what you earned to irresponsibly spend, especially here in the US where the government spends money it doesn't have.[/QUOTE] You're not addressing any of our points. You're just going "wah wah unfair". I don't give a shit about fairness when it leads to aristocracy and monopoly.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;22514555] i'm aware of the gilded age what of it[/QUOTE] i'm backing you up homeboy we're on the same page, read my last post [editline]08:08PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Uberman77883;22514974] To the people saying the tax should be higher or it is deserved, go live on your own. See how much 55% is when you make any amount of money. Thats the government taking more than half of what you earned to irresponsibly spend, especially here in the US where the government spends money it doesn't have.[/QUOTE] you're being rather silly with that argument there are something called income brackets, you have obviously never handled money before.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;22514494] aka people in Europe tend to stay in their economic and social strata, people in America often change their social strata (usually up) [/QUOTE] And in Europe (well, Denmark, can't speak for the other countries) we have considerably less prominent social strata than in the US, i.e. almost no superrich and superpoor, just one huge fucking middle class (itself divided into several layers where people usually also advance up), which means that what you're saying doesn't really apply. Also, nice move there, generalizing the different financial policies of an entire continent into one.

[QUOTE=Chrille;22515199]And in Europe (well, Denmark, can't speak for the other countries) we have considerably less prominent social strata than in the US, i.e. almost no superrich and superpoor, just one huge fucking middle class (itself divided into several layers where people usually also advance up), which means that what you're saying doesn't really apply. Also, nice move there, generalizing the different financial policies of an entire continent into one.[/QUOTE] I believe he was referring more to England than he was Denmark.

from my understanding (and experience) the english estate laws are far more strict than the american ones considering the fact that they were considerably more aristocratic and had to resort to harsher measures

[QUOTE=siberpredaht;22515131]i'm backing you up homeboy we're on the same page, read my last post [editline]08:08PM[/editline] you're being rather silly with that argument there are something called income brackets, you have obviously never handled money before.[/QUOTE] The government shouldn't do anything but provide infrastructure and national defense. Taxes should be small to provide for these things. The reason we live in a free society is because our founding fathers didn't want an oppressive entity taking all our money or freedom. One of the major reasons the American Revolution began is because the oppressive British entity (King George III) raised taxes, didn't let the colonies have a voice, then raised taxes some more. You have to be an American to understand that Americans will never like paying taxes. In my biased view against Europe, I think that Europeans are fine paying taxes because of their thousands of years of being under kings and other forms of archaic government systems that only recently ended. Also, unlike Europe, our aristocracy came from hard work. Every person has an equal opportunity to become rich. Through hard work, a hobo on the street can become the next Bill Gates.

[QUOTE=Chrille;22515199]And in Europe (well, Denmark, can't speak for the other countries) we have considerably less prominent social strata than in the US, i.e. almost no superrich and superpoor, just one huge fucking middle class (itself divided into several layers where people usually also advance up), which means that what you're saying doesn't really apply. Also, nice move there, generalizing the different financial policies of an entire continent into one.[/QUOTE] I didn't want to point specifically at England considering I'd lose a lot of people on that but the entire reasoning behind it is that America as a country has never had a Monarchy or an Aristocracy controlling our government, while many of the European countries have we never had a feudal system this is one of the reasons why our social boundaries are so loose and variable as opposed to European ones

That's wrong to take 55%. Doesn't matter if you're rich or not. But needless to say, I dunno what I would do in that situation. And I highly doubt any person in this thread would know what they would do in the situation of getting your father's $9 billion fortune. By all means, if you've lived a spoiled rich kid life and are receiving a shit-ton of money, please, do speak up. I'd love to hear your opinion on this whole deal. Anyone who hasn't, you probably have no idea what it's like to get this kind of money and thus should not speak as if you have.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22515332]I believe he was referring more to England than he was Denmark.[/QUOTE] That's what I thought, but it just annoyed me because England =! Europe.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22514974]Ok, hows about we have the government have all the money and have the government give everybody equal amounts of everything, so there is no rich or poor class. Oh wait. Seriously, one side of the argument is comprised of people who have never handled money before, and the other is comprised of people who have actually lived outside their parent's house. To the people saying the tax should be higher or it is deserved, go live on your own. See how much 55% is when you make any amount of money. Thats the government taking more than half of what you earned to irresponsibly spend, especially here in the US where the government spends money it doesn't have.[/QUOTE] it's pretty goddamn easy to form your life around a paycheck while taking into account the taxes of both the federal government and the state government i handle money quite frequently, have a 40 hour / week job at minimum wage and if I can manage to feed myself and pay rent then anyone can all the while paying more taxes than I need to (in order to get that nice refund check) my goal is to be making approx ~100k / year, at which point I will be more than happy to give 40% of my earning to the federal government because I understand that without paying those taxes the American government will fucking collapse given our current deficit if people shut the fuck up with the whining and paid their taxes back in the pre-reagan era (when marginal tax rates were ~70% on the highest income level) we'd be back to being golden tax cuts fuck everyone over royally

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22515481]The government shouldn't do anything but provide infrastructure and national defense. Taxes should be small to provide for these things. The reason we live in a free society is because our founding fathers didn't want an oppressive entity taking all our money or freedom. One of the major reasons the American Revolution began is because the oppressive British entity (King George III) raised taxes, didn't let the colonies have a voice, then raised taxes some more. You have to be an American to understand that Americans will never like paying taxes. In my biased view against Europe, I think that Europeans are fine paying taxes because of their thousands of years of being under kings and other forms of archaic government systems that only recently ended. Also, unlike Europe, our aristocracy came from hard work. Every person has an equal opportunity to become rich. Through hard work, a hobo on the street can become the next Bill Gates.[/QUOTE] Yeah, except when they pass their money down to pampered and incompetent children that rule society with an iron aristocratic fist. That's what we're trying to avoid. What you're suggesting is we cripple the government so that we can just breed an even less competent and more malicious upper class.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22515481] Also, unlike Europe, our aristocracy came from hard work. Every person has an equal opportunity to become rich. Through hard work, a hobo on the street can become the next Bill Gates.[/QUOTE] our aristocracy lives off the hard work of others, regardless of whether or not they came from a hard working background themselves, it doesn't really matter.

[QUOTE=Zareox7;22515541]That's wrong to take 55%. Doesn't matter if you're rich or not. But needless to say, I dunno what I would do in that situation. And I highly doubt any person in this thread would know what they would do in the situation of getting your father's $9 billion fortune. By all means, if you've lived a spoiled rich kid life and are receiving a shit-ton of money, please, do speak up. I'd love to hear your opinion on this whole deal. Anyone who hasn't, you probably have no idea what it's like to get this kind of money and thus should not speak as if you have.[/QUOTE] That is completely and utterly irrelevant. Feelings do not factor into this, this is a matter of the way society runs.

also if you think that you are paying 55% tax rate on everything you make you've clearly never handled money before lol [editline]04:28PM[/editline] [QUOTE=siberpredaht;22515131]i'm backing you up homeboy we're on the same page, read my last post[/quote] ah cool [quote]you're being rather silly with that argument there are something called income brackets, you have obviously never handled money before.[/QUOTE] fuck already saying everything I want to say

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22515725]That is completely and utterly irrelevant. Feelings do not factor into this, this is a matter of the way society runs.[/QUOTE] Society can run without stealing 55% of a dead rich man's money. It is not completely irrelevant either because this whole thread is filled with people and their opinions when no one has ever handled that kind of money, and neither have I.

[QUOTE=Chrille;22515551]That's what I thought, but it just annoyed me because England =! Europe.[/QUOTE] oh I know this but when you compare the societies and economies of European cultures [I]to American [/I]society and economies you're quite similar comparing European countries to other European countries, you're obviously quite different

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22515481]The government shouldn't do anything but provide infrastructure and national defense. Taxes should be small to provide for these things. The reason we live in a free society is because our founding fathers didn't want an oppressive entity taking all our money or freedom. One of the major reasons the American Revolution began is because the oppressive British entity (King George III) raised taxes, didn't let the colonies have a voice, then raised taxes some more. Also, unlike Europe, our aristocracy came from hard work. Every person has an equal opportunity to become rich. Through hard work, a hobo on the street can become the next Bill Gates.[/QUOTE] bro, i'm very much american - trust me. several of my relatives in fact fought in this war you speak of. the revolutionary war had little to do with taxes themselves and simply used it as a talking point against the english. for example, tea was much more cheaper under the english (with the tea tax), than it was anywhere else. it was more of being ruled by a government across the sea and not getting our due after the french and indian war. in the 21st century, things are required and should be provided by the government. you say that the government should not provide anything but security and infrastructure, but that is an opinion - not fact. the fact is: this isn't 1776, human beings live much longer than the age of 40. we need things like social security and health care to "provide for the welfare of the Union". government is required and necessary for this general welfare. because of government we no longer have corporations abusing the average joe with 14 hr work days, child labor, dangerous work conditions. it is the government who created the standardized work day, abolished child labor and provided the country with safe working conditions. in what way is the government oppressive? it gives us healthcare, gives us libraries (so we can inform the masses), it gives us roads, side walks, etc. you speak of this "oppressive" government that simply does not exist, the fact is, corporations are far more oppressive than the government will ever be. people like you speak of the free market, but that is just a joke - people have far more power with their votes than with their dollar. you also speak of this "american dream", which is also a complete fallacy. the chasm between the rich and the poor is growing every single day. bill gates seems to be the icon of this "american dream", but that is complete bullshit - just do a little research of him, he was a wealthy bastard. allow me to quote the great george carlin, "the american dream - because you have to be asleep to believe it". why did we oppose the brits' in the revolutionary war? it had a lot to do with their aristocratic system. without these heavy estate taxes - we would have the very same system today.

[QUOTE=Zareox7;22515808]Society can run without stealing 55% of a dead rich man's money. It is not completely irrelevant either because this whole thread is filled with people and their opinions when no one has ever handled that kind of money, and neither have I.[/QUOTE] yeah but see even though we haven't the people who support the "stealing" of a dead man's money at least have logical reasoning behind it everything behind the anti-argument is "wow uhm that's gay they're taking his hard earned cash" it's not really a legitimate argument

[QUOTE=Zareox7;22515808]Society can run without stealing 55% of a dead rich man's money. It is not completely irrelevant either because this whole thread is filled with people and their opinions when no one has ever handled that kind of money, and neither have I.[/QUOTE] That's not the point of the tax. Read the thread, please.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22515481]The government shouldn't do anything but provide infrastructure and national defense. Taxes should be small to provide for these things. The reason we live in a free society is because our founding fathers didn't want an oppressive entity taking all our money or freedom.[/quote] Founding fathers were absolutely in favor of social freedom, economic? Eh, not so much. They wanted the federal government to have substantial power (given the whole fact that each individual state had it's own form of currency, they started to regulate more and more and take more and more) [quote]One of the major reasons the American Revolution began is because the oppressive British entity (King George III) raised taxes, didn't let the colonies have a voice, then raised taxes some more. [/quote] Yeah see that's not even the argument here at the moment because to attempt to illustrate the fact that the social and economic elite don't have a "voice" in government is absolutely idiotic in every way; the social elite are the very drivers of social change and what happens in our government. [quote]You have to be an American to understand that Americans will never like paying taxes. In my biased view against Europe, I think that Europeans are fine paying taxes because of their thousands of years of being under kings and other forms of archaic government systems that only recently ended.[/quote] Yeah any American that's worried about the country ceasing to exist knows that we do need to pay our taxes given the fact that the American government has sold so many trusts to foreign countries (specifically China and Japan which currently own [I]billions[/I] of dollars worth of trusts) that if we are forced to recount on those debts we'll effectively start World War Three, or the other possibility; those governments begin to actually play a role in local American politics as an alternative to paying back the debt. Aka, they get a seat in the Senate. Fun stuffff. [quote]Also, unlike Europe, our aristocracy came from hard work. Every person has an equal opportunity to become rich. Through hard work, a hobo on the street can become the next Bill Gates.[/QUOTE] We don't really have an aristocracy exactly because of taxes such as this honestly, the best argument I can come up for with this sort of debate is a pretty simple fact democracy was formed because of taxes if you think taxes infringe upon your freedom, you're absolutely misguided

Lol I don't even know what I'm talking about why do you take me seriously. But taxes do infringe on my freedom, cuz I have less money. With less money I can't do a lot of shit.

[QUOTE=Perfumly;22514470] Who gives a shit he earned it[/QUOTE] Yes he earned it, but not his children.

[QUOTE=Uberman77883;22516832]Lol I don't even know what I'm talking about why do you take me seriously. But taxes do infringe on my freedom, cuz I have less money. With less money I can't do a lot of shit.[/QUOTE] You can't be serious.

[QUOTE=Paravin;22504908]I'd buy nine billion hookers.[/QUOTE] There isn't even that many hookers on earth.

[QUOTE=Emperorconor;22517466]There isn't even that many hookers on earth.[/QUOTE] There will be eventually, buy a time machine too.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22514533]Yeah, maybe he did, but his kids didn't. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=AwpersAreBad;22517344]Yes he earned it, but not his children.[/QUOTE] With that logic, half of everything your parents ever got you should be taken away, because you didn't earn it.

Regardless of "baww his kids didn't earn it", it's still tax evasion. Also, this: [QUOTE=Chrisholl;22517638]With that logic, half of everything your parents ever got you should be taken away, because you didn't earn it.[/QUOTE]

I think they should be taxed just because they are going to be spoiled little brats anyways.

[QUOTE=Chrisholl;22517638]With that logic, half of everything your parents ever got you should be taken away, because you didn't earn it.[/QUOTE] My parents don't give me billions of dollars and control of international corporations that shape the face of the country. :colbert: