GOP convention delegate resigns over Trump, endorses Gary Johnson - Polidicks

[QUOTE=da space core;50724463]The educational inconsistency in this country is ridiculous.. For example, California has a different grading scheme and class system than practically the rest of the country, and is suffering from grade inflation. Abolishing the department of education is a terrible idea[/QUOTE] This post is kinda confusing. You're basically saying the Department of Ed is useless and not doing anything, but then say getting rid of it would be terrible.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;50724198]-focus on one sentence and then throwing accusations-[/QUOTE] Isak again you didn't acknowledge this: [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50724162]You didn't really acknowledge that, despite his most staunch positions, he can't actually just arbitrarily decide to do something and then magically do it as president. For example, abolishing corporate tax, this would benefit a lot of people who contribute a large amount of money to many politicians but money alone does not get people reelected at all. Even among some of the right wing a complete and blanket removal of corporate tax wouldn't go over well, and it certainly wouldn't go over well with anyone on the left. (anyone except the "regressive leftists" who are actually more centrists firmly down in the authoritarian camp) All of his most controversial stances, be they personal or party, are going to face opposition from [U]both[/U] sides of the fence and he'll be in the unfortunate position of having little friends if he decides to act on them.[/QUOTE] You're trying to convince me that he's a bad candidate, and so far all you've done is argue the validity of your source and didn't defend anything you've said. I don't give a fuck about your source anymore, I want you to explain why the above is exempt for Hillary but not for Johnson.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724450] Technically a theory that is most likely fact :eng101:[/QUOTE] A theory is an idea that is made up of and backed by multiple facts. (Yes you can play the philosophy card of "nothing is 100% fact" but for pragmatic reasons it's not very useful to consider that idea too much) [editline]17th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724462]This is incorrect, it is not "factually" proven. It's a theory and it's stuck at being a theory because it cannot be replicated through experimentation. Not that I believe it's false, but it does help to use the proper description of it.[/QUOTE] You have no idea what a theory is do you? Hint, it isn't the colloquial definition

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724450]Schools are funded by property taxes already, so richer regions pay more into schools while poorer regions get less funding which only perpetuates the region's economic statuses. Also, schools should be teaching life skills, not religion or moreorless useless facts like evolution. They need to learn basic math skills, personal finance skills, physical education to stay fit, etc. Learning about creationism vs evolution literally does not prepare a child for the adult world in any way. [editline]16th July 2016[/editline] Technically a theory that is most likely fact :eng101:[/QUOTE] evolution is the foundation of biology. it describes the history of life itself, and explains why the world is the way it is. Understanding evolution is critical to understanding the world. if we aren't going to teach kids biology, why teach them calculus? why teach them history? why teach them psychology, or sociology, or chemistry, or fucking anything they might not end up using? that organisms change over time is a demonstrable fact evolution by natural selection is the theory that describes the mechanism by which organisms change [editline]17th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724462]This is incorrect, it is not "factually" proven. It's a theory and it's stuck at being a theory because it cannot be replicated through experimentation. Not that I believe it's false, but it does help to use the proper description of it.[/QUOTE] a theory is an explanation of facts that has been proven to have predictive power evolution via natural selection was a hypothesis that made certain predictions, those predictions were true, ergo it is a verified theory that you don't understand what a scientific theory is just illustrates how important proper education is

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724450]Technically a theory that is most likely fact :eng101:[/QUOTE] Evolution is a fact. It happens, we have observed it happening. You can go do an experiment right now to confirm that it happens, assuming you have some bacteria, petri dishes and a lot of free time. Evolution is also the name of the theory we have that explains these observations. As a theory, it cannot be "proven" in the formal sense, but it has been tested enough that we can be sufficiently confident in it to teach it, as any theory that "overturns" it will inevitably simplify to our current theory under most conditions (theories can be more correct or less correct than another theory, and the extant corpus of observations requires that any new theory boil down to the old theory under common conditions; see general relativity acting indistinguishably from newtonian gravity under human scales).

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50724194]evolution is one of the most thoroughly proven and easily demonstrable theories in the history of science if we're going to stop teaching evolution then we might as well stop teaching fucking plate tectonics and general relativity too[/QUOTE] I really don't see why not, it's not as if they're crucial facts of information needed for every day life.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724507]I really don't see why not, it's not as if they're crucial facts of information needed for every day life.[/QUOTE] Education should not be [I]just[/I] about things needed for daily life.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50724468]I clicked on those links and nothing happened, so it's probably a data problem on my end. I'll reiterate what I said earlier: I have a 56k connection (technically it's slower this time of day) so it really isn't a matter of how I feel. Oh and there's also this: Onus probandi.[/QUOTE] Quidquid latine dictum, altum videtur. Onus probandi is a great fallacy to bring up if you're a lawyer but this is not a litigious setting. You can not expect all claims to be given to you with evidence on a silver platter, and any intelligence you may or may not have will be wasted if you lack the willingness to research on your own.

[QUOTE=Pops;50724101]Well he is right that the doe shouldn't exist, education is a state matter. Schools also shouldn't teach creationism or evolution, that's a matter to be handled at home.[/QUOTE] The Department of Education needs to exist. This is a federal nation we live in, and it requires standardization and higher oversight as a result. We've got 319 million people (and counting) to look after, 50 states covering more than 3.8 million square miles... confederating ourselves again like we did the first time around is not an option for us if we want to keep existing as we currently do (it failed the first time around as well lol). Why the hell would anybody seriously think that this is a sensible position to have? I mean never mind the issues I just brought up, what about the issues we've had before with states deliberately butchering their curriculum? Look at Texas and their textbook "modifications". And like others pointed out, look at how many private individuals and large organizations have tried to push teaching Creationism in schools instead of evolution. If we do away with the DoE, what's stopping them exactly? We need the federal government. We need the Department of Education. That's how simple it is. We're too big of a country, both geographically and in terms of our population, to not have higher systems and institutions of oversight and control. This is exactly why I hate Libertarianism (one reason anyway among many others): it's regressive. The idea we need to start splitting up the federal government (and by extension the country) is retarded, and the "big government vs. small government" debate that Libertarians often turn to is bullshit originally designed to distract people from the bigger issue at hand. It's not a question of whether we need big or small government, what we need is [i]efficient[/i] government-- government that works as it's supposed to and that actually does its job. This has to be achieved not only through systematic reforms that do some restructuring to who is responsible for what and how their offices are meant to function, but more importantly this is achieved through changing out the figures that are behind it and replacing them with people we can actually count on to do their jobs: people that know what they're doing and have an honest intention of doing their best. And we the citizens also need to start imposing ourselves against them to ensure that they as our officials are held accountable for their actions. Really, that's one of the worst thing about our government right now: lack of oversight. Way too many Americans are apathetic and too uneducated to do anything to slap some sense into them. [editline]17 July 2016[/editline] I'm not mad at you, Pops. I'm just tired of people believing regression, austerity, and fracturing our country any more than it already is is going to lead to anything good for us. It's clear we need a change, and in a lot of ways we need to start over and start working to eliminate the political and social division that's infecting us right now everywhere we look, but Libertarianism just isn't up to the task in the long-term. It's not a long-term workable ideology for us to operate based off of in other words.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724507]I really don't see why not, it's not as if they're crucial facts of information needed for every day life.[/QUOTE] If you want to be involved in just about any type of biological or scientific research, yes they actually are. Yes believe it or not some people do in fact go and work in the scientific sector and will need to learn scientific facts. Honestly it boggles my mind how anyone can look at things this way. Do you think every person just grows up and becomes a spreadsheet filler in an office?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724507]I really don't see why not, it's not as if they're crucial facts of information needed for every day life.[/QUOTE] if we only taught kids things that were absolutely crucial to survival then people would be even more ignorant than they already are Not teaching kids science in an age where science will determine the course of history isn't just stupid, it's insane. We need as many fucking people getting into science as possible if we want to remain competitive as a country in the future. [editline]17th July 2016[/editline] "why teach people about climate science, it isn't like people will ever need to understand that stuff anyway!"

We fail to provide classes that teach students how to budget themselves, how to file taxes and essentially earn a living, but hey at least they know what osmosis is.

[QUOTE=Paramud;50724520]Quidquid latine dictum, altum videtur.[/QUOTE]Cute, but I can actually understand that. Let's continue: [QUOTE]Onus probandi is a great fallacy to bring up[/QUOTE]Oh so the burden of proof (by the way everyone "onus probandi" means "burden of proof!" Surprise!) is a fallacy now? Got it. I suppose common courtesy is fallacious as well according to you. [QUOTE]if you're a lawyer but this is not a litigious setting.[/QUOTE]Actually it's useful in philosophical debates, hell, any debate in general. Actually it's the first things I learned high school science, we were required to cite our sources. I'm sure you have some excuse as to why you think this is bad, but frankly I don't care. [QUOTE]You can not expect all claims to be given to you with evidence on a silver platter,[/QUOTE]Mmm, no, that wasn't the issue here. You vomited some throwaway comment about the "poorly composed" nature of my post and then tried to pretend like my snide remark on top of my actual argument was some lofty argument in itself. We're arguing about the burden of proof because I was rude and you were offended. I wasn't even rude to you originally, [I]you're offended on behalf of somebody else.[/I] I could continue but frankly I see no reason to, you just argued that the burden of proof is meaningless [I]because I was mean[/I] with a straight face; any respect I had for you has evaporated.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50724529]if we only taught kids things that were absolutely crucial to survival then people would be even more ignorant than they already are Not teaching kids science in an age where science will determine the course of history isn't just stupid, it's insane. We need as many fucking people getting into science as possible if we want to remain competitive as a country in the future. [editline]17th July 2016[/editline] "why teach people about climate science, it isn't like people will ever need to understand that stuff anyway!"[/QUOTE] Haven't you heard? Trump will just bring back all the low-skill manufacturing jobs that don't require any degree of higher education. Instead of looking forward and remaining competitive in a free market as a nation, we should roll our system of governance back to the 1800s and use tariffs to strongarm the free market to fight for the worst possible jobs. Education is a necessity in the modern world. We need to be expanding it, federally, as much as humanly possible. If you want good jobs, you need good education, and the best way to get that is to maintain national standards of achievement for students and continue subsidizing education. Skilled workers are far, far more valuable to a society than unskilled ones - and not teaching children [i]elementary biology[/i] because of some far-outdated idea of "states rights" is counterproductive to our nation's ability to compete on the global jobs market. Funny how people who constantly talk about the free market want to prevent it from actually working. Bob is selling bread for cheaper than you? Instead of competing to either make way better bread or make cheaper bread, we should build a big wall around Bob's store so people can't buy it, and then keep making the same shitty bread we've been making all along.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724568]We fail to provide classes that teach students how to budget themselves, how to file taxes and essentially earn a living, but hey at least they know what osmosis is.[/QUOTE] yeah instead of teaching kids more useful things lets just teach them less lets just raise a generation of completely ignorant cretins who don't understand fucking anything about the world or the universe or how anything anywhere works but who are really good at doing taxes I'm sure once uneducated jobs are all automated they'll really thank us for not educating them "I mean who needs science" I write from my portable computer hooked up wirelessly to a global communication network

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50724585]yeah instead of teaching kids more useful things lets just teach them less lets just raise a generation of completely ignorant cretins who don't understand fucking anything about the world or the universe or how anything anywhere works but who are really good at doing taxes "I mean who needs science" I write from my portable computer hooked up wirelessly to a global communication network[/QUOTE] It's almost as if college doesn't teach anything subject focused isn't it

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724568]We fail to provide classes that teach students how to budget themselves, how to file taxes and essentially earn a living, but hey at least they know what osmosis is.[/QUOTE] I've seen that music video too. Teaching children how to budget out their paychecks and maintain a 401k is a waste when they don't know basic algebra.

[QUOTE=Paramud;50724598]I've seen that music video too. Teaching children how to budget out their paychecks and maintain a 401k is a waste when they don't know basic algebra.[/QUOTE] Nice strawman, please point out where I said schools should not teach math skills

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724593]It's almost as if college doesn't teach anything subject focused isn't it[/QUOTE] how is anyone going to know they want to be a biologist if they've never been taught fucking anything about biology before like I can't believe I'm having to argue against making society more ignorant, this is ridiculous

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50724609]how is anyone going to know they want to be a biologist if they've never been taught fucking anything about biology before like I can't believe I'm having to argue against making society more ignorant, this is ridiculous[/QUOTE] Jesus christ was your childhood so horrid that you only possibly learned of the entire world through going to school? Where you locked in a cell, away from books, internet, television, movies, everything when you got home?

That's some wild conjecture, don't you think? Even if it isn't, education at a young age can inspire people and has inspired people; they don't necessarily need to be sheltered to discover a love of or interest in a particular subject. [editline]16th July 2016[/editline] Oh it's a new page. I was replying to Scorpious.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724568]We fail to provide classes that teach students how to budget themselves, how to file taxes and essentially earn a living, but hey at least they know what osmosis is.[/QUOTE] You don't need to scrap the entire curriculum in order to add a Personal Finance class. [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724624]Jesus christ was your childhood so horrid that you only possibly learned of the entire world through going to school? Where you locked in a cell, away from books, internet, television, movies, everything when you got home?[/QUOTE] This argument is dumb, you can apply it to anything, I could just say you should've learned how to file taxes and budget money outside of school.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724624]Jesus christ was your childhood so horrid that you only possibly learned of the entire world through going to school? Where you locked in a cell, away from books, internet, television, movies, everything when you got home?[/QUOTE] most children don't just randomly look up how cell division works, or how certain gases affect how the earth retains the heat it absorbs from the sun, or how to calculate probability, or the history of Babylonian civilization There's tons of stupid completely irrelevant bullshit in the world. As their caretakers, we're supposed to be giving children correct, important information directly, not just tossing them into the fucking wind and expecting them to figure everything out on their own. How is a kid supposed to discern between reliable and unreliable information on their own? I mean Jesus fucking Christ. Most adults can't even figure that shit out. As someone who had to learn a lot of shit on his own because no one else ever fucking bothered to teach it to me, I can tell you that it isn't fucking easy. [editline]17th July 2016[/editline] you don't even know what a scientific theory is and you're telling me kids should be expected to teach themselves science, like what the fuck

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724568]We fail to provide classes that teach students how to budget themselves, how to file taxes and essentially earn a living, but hey at least they know what osmosis is.[/QUOTE] I had a budgeting class in 5th grade, then again in 10th grade with more detail. I don't think I had a class on filing taxes but the 1040EZ is not exactly rocket science*. For me, "earn a living" was covered in various programming classes, starting with one in 4th grade, but mostly in 9-12th grades. Osmosis was somewhere around grade 7, but was important for cellular biology which was covered later. A lot of those were part of the state or county educational programs, though, so perhaps the problem is that the federal government is doing a [I]bad job[/I] at dictating curriculum, and not that it is [I]fundamentally incapable of doing a good job[/I]. * I had rocket science as an extracurricular in my 8th grade year.

[QUOTE=IrishBandit;50724643] This argument is dumb, you can apply it to anything, I could just say you should've learned how to file taxes and budget money outside of school.[/QUOTE] Except taxes and budgeting is more important in day to day life so should be a bit more important to teach, don't you think?

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;50724580]Cute, but I can actually understand that. Let's continue:[/quote] Allow me to translate it for everyone else then, since you're so keen to do that yourself. "Anything said in latin seems profound." You may be able to rattle off logical fallacies but that's not indicative of any sort of understanding of the topic at hand. Statements such as the one below only serve yourself if you're in a dick measuring contest. [quote](by the way everyone "onus probandi" means "burden of proof!" Surprise!)[/quote] [quote]Actually it's useful in philosophical debates, hell, any debate in general. Actually it's the first things I learned high school science, we were required to cite our sources. I'm sure you have some excuse as to why you think this is bad, but frankly I don't care.[/quote] Unfortunately for you this discussion is neither a debate nor taking place in an academic setting. As for it's usefulness, I completely agree. It's very useful, and it helps people more easily gather information and form their own views. However, it is neither necessary nor likely that you're going to obtain it unless you're in an academic or litigious setting. As I've said, this is neither. In your personal life, outside of school or work, you're going to see unsupported claims every day. If they're about something you care very much about, I highly suggest you get up the willpower to investigate them. Otherwise you're going to spend the majority of your life being an ignorant tool, instantly swallowing up anything that agrees with you and denying with utmost scrutiny anything that challenges your opinions. Also, as a side note, being a presumptuous cock isn't suggested unless you know the person you're arguing with very well. [quote]Mmm, no, that wasn't the issue here. You vomited some throwaway comment about the "poorly composed" nature of my post and then tried to pretend like my snide remark on top of my actual argument was some lofty argument. We're arguing about the burden of proof because I was rude and you were offended. I wasn't even rude to you originally, [I]you're offended on behalf of somebody else.[/I][/quote] I'm sorry that you completely misinterpreted my post, then. I was insulting you because you made such a long-winded post where so many of your points were [citation needed], and then you went on to chastise someone for not googling a simple fact. I didn't take offense to your snideness, I took offense to your hypocrisy. [quote]any respect I had for you has evaporated.[/QUOTE] I don't give a shit if you respect me or not.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724686]Except taxes and budgeting is more important in day to day life so should be a bit more important to teach, don't you think?[/QUOTE] Taxes and budgeting is actually fairly simple and only requires a single class to teach it, this isn't a zero-sum situation where only academics or only practical knowledge can be taught.

[QUOTE=Paramud;50724707]Allow me to translate it for everyone else then, since you're so keen to do that yourself. "Anything said in latin seems profound." You may be able to rattle off logical fallacies but that's not indicative of any sort of understanding of the topic at hand. Statements such as the one below only serve yourself if you're in a dick measuring contest.[/QUOTE]lmao and you may be able to continue to use the word "fallacy" but clearly you have no idea what it means. [QUOTE]Unfortunately for you this discussion is neither a debate[/QUOTE]I stopped reading there, this is actually a debate so the burden of proof does actually apply here and is a useful tool to keep things honest and guess what! Isak went and provided a source, I commend him for doing that because it's a hell of a lot more than other people would do. [editline]16th July 2016[/editline] Well. That depends on your definition of "debate." Certainly this isn't a formal debate, but I think [U]integrity[/U] is universal no matter the forum.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724593]It's almost as if college doesn't teach anything subject focused isn't it[/QUOTE] You won't get into college without knowing the basics. [editline]17th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724686]Except taxes and budgeting is more important in day to day life so should be a bit more important to teach, don't you think?[/QUOTE] You can literally learn these in about an hour or two on the internet, you don't need to teach them in class. They're both mostly common sense.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50724686]Except taxes and budgeting is more important in day to day life so should be a bit more important to teach, don't you think?[/QUOTE] If there's anything that can be and should be learnt on your own, it's how to function in society i.e. the taxes and budgeting you talk about. Schools should be for absorbing knowledge and learning how to think.