California To Permit Medically Assisted Suicide As Of June 9 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933053]Well yeah I'd suggest to start treating tobacco and alcohol (focusing primarily on strong spirits/whiskeys/etc and the like) in much the same way.[/QUOTE] With education or with a ban?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49933094]With education or with a ban?[/QUOTE] Well like I said earlier with other drugs, decriminalized but treating it as a public health problem with a view to discourage and cut down on consumption of these goods through education and legislation as part of a coordinated public healthcare strategy. It's not much more radical than putting a tax on sugary drinks or similar measures adopted to target obesity.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933134]Well like I said earlier with other drugs, decriminalized but treating it as a public health problem with a view to discourage and cut down on consumption of these goods through education and legislation as part of a coordinated public healthcare strategy. It's not much more radical than putting a tax on sugary drinks or similar measures adopted to target obesity.[/QUOTE] it's way more radical than taxing sugar because people can still buy and possess sugar without getting a ticket/being thrown in prison. I want to tax drugs so that drug users and abusers who won't stop (seriously, good luck trying) get the quality drugs they deserve. Nobody should be forced to buy heroin off the streets, it's disgusting! We have the ability to regulate recreational drugs and it's irresponsible to keep them illegal.

[QUOTE=cody8295;49933249]it's way more radical than taxing sugar because people can still buy and possess sugar without getting a ticket/being thrown in prison. I want to tax drugs so that drug users and abusers who won't stop (seriously, good luck trying) get the quality drugs they deserve. Nobody should be forced to buy heroin off the streets, it's disgusting! We have the ability to regulate recreational drugs and it's irresponsible to keep them illegal.[/QUOTE] except i didn't say i wanted people who had drugs to be arrested, these are not criminals we are dealing with, but people who need medical help the point is that i support a range of policies which shift towards treating it as a public health problem (because that's literally what it is) instead of throwing people who have done no wrong into jail or simply giving up like the chinese did after the opium wars I mean taxing drugs - why do you think fag manufacturers maintained such powerful lobbies? they made so much money off drugs that they could continue to maintain a massive market share while paying enough money to the government that it was often reluctant to ban or restrict it. When we consider the fact that taxing drugs would provide a great deal of monies for the governments, companies, and varied politicians in question, would they really be looking out for public health considering the fact that a fairly substantial portion of their budget could come to rely on ensuring that a steady or growing number of people are using drugs that could have extremely negative health repercussions? Look at the damage that alcoholism alone does.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933267]except i didn't say i wanted people who had drugs to be arrested, these are not criminals we are dealing with, but people who need medical help the point is that i support a range of policies which shift towards treating it as a public health problem (because that's literally what it is) instead of throwing people who have done no wrong into jail or simply giving up like the chinese did after the opium wars[/QUOTE] With decriminalization it's still a violation of some laws to possess the drug, especially in 'non personal' amounts. Do you support ticketing people who possess more than a half ounce of marijuana? This is still depriving them of their fundamental right to own and use a plant

[QUOTE=cody8295;49933314]With decriminalization it's still a violation of some laws to possess the drug, especially in 'non personal' amounts. Do you support ticketing people who possess more than a half ounce of marijuana? This is still depriving them of their fundamental right to own and use a plant[/QUOTE] sometimes we have to balance individual rights against the public good vaccines, quarantine, and not to mention a whole host of other involuntary measures exist i honestly don't think that we're really losing much by giving heroin addicts medical treatment and counselling instead of allowing them to buy as much as they pleased. i mean countries have tried the whole "laissez faire" thing with drugs before (it didn't work)

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933333]sometimes we have to balance individual rights against the public good vaccines, quarantine, and not to mention a whole host of other involuntary measures exist i honestly don't think that we're really losing much by giving heroin addicts medical treatment and counselling instead of allowing them to buy as much as they pleased. i mean countries have tried the whole "laissez faire" thing with drugs before (it didn't work)[/QUOTE] vaccines and quarantine are for the good of others, drug laws are to protect the user from himself. There's no reason to tell an adult what he or she can't do with his or her body, especially when it comes to experimenting with mind-altering substances.

[QUOTE=cody8295;49933342]vaccines and quarantine are for the good of others, drug laws are to protect the user from himself. There's no reason to tell an adult what he or she can't do with his or her body, especially when it comes to experimenting with mind-altering substances.[/QUOTE] except you're ignoring the fact it becomes a wider societal health problem during the 19th century, the fact that the british stopped the chinese from banning opium led to the proliferation of opium growing and smoking until millions of chinese people were addicted. this is a health problem, and it shouldn't be avoided by dressing it up in the language of "fundamental rights" as an excuse to permit untold suffering

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933333]sometimes we have to balance individual rights against the public good vaccines, quarantine, and not to mention a whole host of other involuntary measures exist i honestly don't think that we're really losing much by giving heroin addicts medical treatment and counselling instead of allowing them to buy as much as they pleased. i mean countries have tried the whole "laissez faire" thing with drugs before (it didn't work)[/QUOTE] Meth and Marijauna may start with the same letter but they're vastly different drugs. Shouldn't they have laws that reflect that

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933365]except you're ignoring the fact it becomes a wider societal health problem during the 19th century, the fact that the british stopped the chinese from banning opium led to the proliferation of opium growing and smoking until millions of chinese people were addicted. this is a health problem, and it shouldn't be avoided by dressing it up in the language of "fundamental rights" as an excuse to permit untold suffering[/QUOTE] more people suffer at the hands of black market drugs than would if we could regulate them. Opium was and still is a problem, but you can't infer from a 19th century opium problem what might happen if we compete with the black market heroin that thousands die from.

[QUOTE=cody8295;49933379]more people suffer at the hands of black market drugs than would if we could regulate them. Opium was and still is a problem, but you can't infer from a 19th century opium problem what might happen if we compete with the black market heroin that thousands die from.[/QUOTE] well nothing would really happen because you're still doing nothing to really help it. it's just profiting off the suffering of others by simply giving up and saying that instead of making an effort to treat the actual root cause of the problem, you have opted instead to diminish the effects by pretending to regulate it in the public interest

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933399]well nothing would really happen because you're still doing nothing to really help it. it's just profiting off the suffering of others by simply giving up and saying that instead of making an effort to treat the actual root cause of the problem, you have opted instead to diminish the effects by pretending to regulate it in the public interest[/QUOTE] So you either ignore or disagree with the fact that black market drugs are way more dangerous because they're not regulated? So many people die from taking 1 shot of 'heroin' because it was stepped on or cut with something deadly. legalizing would slowly put an end to these dangerous drugs being sold on the street

[QUOTE=cody8295;49933412]So you either ignore or disagree with the fact that black market drugs are way more dangerous because they're not regulated? So many people die from taking 1 shot of 'heroin' because it was stepped on or cut with something deadly. legalizing would slowly put an end to these dangerous drugs being sold on the street[/QUOTE] except you're still not fixing the problem you can end both by providing public facilities where, say for example a heroin addict can go to in order to use clean needles and to receive medical attention and supervision. it is here where you can begin to work on curing the person and treating the problem. legalization does nothing but assume that somehow the problem is magically cured by allowing people to buy whatever drugs they please and then governments tax these drugs to supplement their budgets. if the revenue generated is substantial, i struggle to see why these governments should be concerned with restricting their usage. why provide medical treatment to the millions of suffering people? we already allow fat people to eat themselves to death, why not allow people to snort cocaine until they have their inevitable breakdown?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933447]except you're still not fixing the problem you can end both by providing public facilities where, say for example a heroin addict can go to in order to use clean needles and to receive medical attention and supervision. it is here where you can begin to work on curing the person and treating the problem. legalization does nothing but assume that somehow the problem is magically cured by allowing people to buy whatever drugs they please and then governments tax these drugs to supplement their budgets. if the revenue generated is substantial, i struggle to see why these governments should be concerned with restricting their usage[/QUOTE] ok so if we have facilities where people can get clean needles and treatment, how are you gonna pay for that? Most americans have the NOT IN MY BACKYARD and NOT FOR THOSE DRUGGIES attitude, especially if they have to shell out money from their paychecks for it. One way of paying for that proposal is by using the revenue generated from taxing regulated drugs. The problem is drug abuse, and the only effective ways to treat it is through education. Taking away the freedoms of all citizens to use drugs is a great way to perpetuate substance abuse and drive users to dangerous avenues to obtain their drugs.

[QUOTE=cody8295;49933463]ok so if we have facilities where people can get clean needles and treatment, how are you gonna pay for that? Most americans have the NOT IN MY BACKYARD and NOT FOR THOSE DRUGGIES attitude, especially if they have to shell out money from their paychecks for it. One way of paying for that proposal is by using the revenue generated from taxing regulated drugs. The problem is drug abuse, and the only effective ways to treat it is through education.[/quote] I agree. I think that a lot of money could be saved through other ways (like reforming the ramshackle and incompetent healthcare system in America into a single payer system). Legalizing and taxing drugs is such a clueless and naive solution to raising the money. I'd argue instead to source it from the general healthcare budget instead. As for education, integrate it with general education. This isn't hard. [quote]Taking away the freedoms of all citizens to use drugs is a great way to perpetuate substance abuse and drive users to dangerous avenues to obtain their drugs.[/QUOTE] How? If you educate people and provide the proper healthcare facilities and treat it as a medical problem where seeking help and treatment isn't stigmatized, then you get positive and encouraging results. Why should we legalize it when it's plainly obvious that education and reformed healthcare can do the job much better?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933488]I agree. I think that a lot of money could be saved through other ways (like reforming the ramshackle and incompetent healthcare system in America into a single payer system). Legalizing and taxing drugs is such a clueless and naive solution to raising the money. I'd argue instead to source it from the general healthcare budget instead. As for education, integrate it with general education. This isn't hard. How? If you educate people and provide the proper healthcare facilities and treat it as a medical problem where seeking help and treatment isn't stigmatized, then you get positive and encouraging results. Why should we legalize it when it's plainly obvious that education and reformed healthcare can do the job much better?[/QUOTE] Education and reformed healthcare are needed in tandem with legalization if you want to see real decreases in drug abuse. The black market is a huge factor in this that you can't just gloss over, we need to compete directly with them or people will continue to buy dangerous drugs from it.

[QUOTE=cody8295;49933509]Education and reformed healthcare are needed in tandem with legalization if you want to see real decreases in drug abuse. The black market is a huge factor in this that you can't just gloss over, we need to compete directly with them or people will continue to buy dangerous drugs from it.[/QUOTE] Except when public healthcare are directly providing clean and safe facilities with trained staff for people to shoot up or whatever, why would they go to the black market dealer?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49933584]Except when public healthcare are directly providing clean and safe facilities with trained staff for people to shoot up or whatever, why would they go to the black market dealer?[/QUOTE] If the drug is only decriminalized then it will still be illegal to purchase and possess the drug, the facilities will only provide assistance in shooting up and provide clean needles. The facilities wont be able to distribute a scheduled drug

[QUOTE=CoixNiro;49912828]so what is the best way to kill yourself while minimizing the impact of killing yourself?[/QUOTE] Just pull a shiny object out of your waste-band in front of a cop. You'll be put to rest in a few moments.